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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:01 PM   #7851
DonkoTheClown
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Would be very easy to detect since a ton of programmers would know about it, including ones that moved on to other fields or were working for rooms that closed down. One of them would have told by now, and they cannot be legally prevented from telling about a criminal act.

Maybe they are all killed I suppose. One poster suggested they are all put in a cave.

Oh, and stats geeks would be able to tell as well, but that is sort of a bonus.

Hope that helps.
That is a logical argument. However, I would think that it would be possible for a site to keep the people who are in the know down to a very small number of senior personelle. This would be less likely than your argument but still possible. People could be paid off and would need to keep their mouths shut because they are taking part in a crime and could end up going down with the rest of the people in on it. This of course is just another theory on a long list of theories. Next to impossible to prove this one unless someone caves. (not in the cave...lol)
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:58 PM   #7852
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
This of course is just another theory on a long list of theories. Next to impossible to prove this one unless someone caves. (not in the cave...lol)
Russell's teapot. Such a theory isn't even valid enough to be wrong.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:08 AM   #7853
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Rest assured that the Full Tilt Poker software is not rigged, fixed, or biased toward or against any player.

Keep in mind that poker is different from other forms of online betting, as you never play against the house. If you lose funds, they are only lost to other players and never to Full Tilt Poker. Rake and tournament fees are unaffected by who wins or loses, as our rake is always collected from the winner of the hand, and our tournament fees are collected at the beginning of the tournament. As you can see, there would be no benefit for us to rig the deck in favor of individual players.

Remember that our software allows you to record every hand played. If our software dealt cards in a dishonest manner, the evidence would be available to anyone who had played for an extended period of time.

For a more detailed analysis of the theories surrounding fair play on online poker sites, we recommend visiting any of the popular online poker discussion forums. Many knowledgeable and experienced poker players contribute regularly to these forums, and all of them have experienced the effects of negative variance at one time or another.

We assure you that when you play at Full Tilt Poker, you're playing a game that is fair and equitable to all players. Our business depends on providing every player an honest game.

We hope your luck takes a turn for the better, and if you have any questions or comments, please let us know.


Regards,

Chris
Poker Specialist
Full Tilt Poker Support



There you have it. The Full Tilt Guarantee.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:59 AM   #7854
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Someone asked me about a week ago to post graphs with my winrate, but I was on vacation and didn't have access to my home computer. Well, here it is now:

Hold'em (does not include my hands on the Crypto network pre-UIGEA, because PT3 doesn't support them ):


Omaha:
Thanks for posting. The PT3 graph is quite impressive. I assume the hold'em hands are NL? At LHE that would be totally sick and if so, I'd like to hire you as a coach ASAP. I noticed a couple of 1000bb slides. I'm actually glad to see that. It means everyone goes through them (btw- I have yet to have a 1000 bb slide and I don't do nearly as well as you).

I've gotta ask... Why doesn't DMoogle come up on PTR? What sites do you play? Thanks.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:06 AM   #7855
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Those are sick stats....You wanna see sick...ender555....
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:49 AM   #7856
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Those are sick stats....You wanna see sick...ender555....
Nice avoidance of the questions thrown at you TK, who are you PBDave?

Last edited by Arouet; 08-20-2009 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Sick graph indeed, GG DMoogle!
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:07 PM   #7857
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaptastic View Post
Rest assured that the Full Tilt Poker software is not rigged, fixed, or biased toward or against any player.

Keep in mind that poker is different from other forms of online betting, as you never play against the house. If you lose funds, they are only lost to other players and never to Full Tilt Poker. Rake and tournament fees are unaffected by who wins or loses, as our rake is always collected from the winner of the hand, and our tournament fees are collected at the beginning of the tournament. As you can see, there would be no benefit for us to rig the deck in favor of individual players.

Remember that our software allows you to record every hand played. If our software dealt cards in a dishonest manner, the evidence would be available to anyone who had played for an extended period of time.

For a more detailed analysis of the theories surrounding fair play on online poker sites, we recommend visiting any of the popular online poker discussion forums. Many knowledgeable and experienced poker players contribute regularly to these forums, and all of them have experienced the effects of negative variance at one time or another.

We assure you that when you play at Full Tilt Poker, you're playing a game that is fair and equitable to all players. Our business depends on providing every player an honest game.

We hope your luck takes a turn for the better, and if you have any questions or comments, please let us know.


Regards,

Chris
Poker Specialist
Full Tilt Poker Support



There you have it. The Full Tilt Guarantee.
Yes, this is the standard form letter the customer service people send out when someone emails them with questions leaning towards the rigged theory. It does make some good arguments and claims against the site being rigged. But it doesnt prove or disprove anything. This is good info to consider though....Thanks!
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:25 PM   #7858
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Thanks for posting. The PT3 graph is quite impressive. I assume the hold'em hands are NL? At LHE that would be totally sick and if so, I'd like to hire you as a coach ASAP. I noticed a couple of 1000bb slides. I'm actually glad to see that. It means everyone goes through them (btw- I have yet to have a 1000 bb slide and I don't do nearly as well as you).

I've gotta ask... Why doesn't DMoogle come up on PTR? What sites do you play? Thanks.
He is not showing any stats for FT, PS, Party or Ongame. Outside of one Sunday Million entry.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:28 PM   #7859
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

The real question here is....

If you think it is rigged what are you still doing playing?
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:16 PM   #7860
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
Thanks for posting. The PT3 graph is quite impressive. I assume the hold'em hands are NL? At LHE that would be totally sick and if so, I'd like to hire you as a coach ASAP. I noticed a couple of 1000bb slides. I'm actually glad to see that. It means everyone goes through them (btw- I have yet to have a 1000 bb slide and I don't do nearly as well as you).
It's 99.9% NL. Both graphs are in Big Bets, not Big Blinds, so 1000BBs = 20 buy-ins (which is usually the minimum recommended bankroll size for NLHE... 300BBs was for LHE last time I checked, but it may have changed since then). I did start my career in LHE, but those are part of the Crypto hands that aren't included in that graph. The two 30+ buy-in downswings in PLO really hurt my confidence in my game, but I'm recovering.

FWIW, I think I'm more critical about my game than nearly all players. When I'm on a downswing, I tend to blame myself MUCH more than the cards, sometimes unfairly so. That's at least partially why I don't put in much volume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
I've gotta ask... Why doesn't DMoogle come up on PTR? What sites do you play? Thanks.
DMoogle is my name on Stars, which I rarely play on anymore (except for the occasional donkament). PTR has also only been around for a little over a year, so it doesn't have the hands that I did log on Stars. Those graphs do include my results on FTP, but not Cake, which I joined recently and have put in about 10K hands so far. PTR doesn't track Omaha either.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:18 PM   #7861
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Nice avoidance of the questions thrown at you TK, who are you PBDave?
What question was thrown at me? I didnt see any question directed towards me to avoid??
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:27 PM   #7862
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Thank you for reminding me of that. tk1133 outright admitted to stealing from Poker Stars by using bad checks and then refusing to make them good, and abandoning the site. Goddamn hypocrite idiot, trying to make my real research look shady by association simply because the hand history database is collected by a botter, while tk1133 is a criminal who commits gross fraud against poker sites and admits it.

You are still on ignore tk1133, don't bother insulting me you worthless POS. What research have you ever contributed?
Hahahaha! For real? Dude you were on a poker website logged in as SPADEBIDDER for the forums. You were researching on a site that produces poker bots! So you collected data obtained by poker bots and your also browsing their forums that support and help poker bots.

I had over ten echeck dep. clear my bank in one day. Each should of cleared every 7-10 bus. days. They screwed up, costed me 35 dollars a piece for each over draft. Costed me over 400 dollars in fee's to my bank...PS got short 150 dollars for switching echecks to a diff. company and clearing 3 weeks worth of deposits in one day... Big whoop get over it.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:27 PM   #7863
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
What question was thrown at me? I didnt see any question directed towards me to avoid??





Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
FYFP


Did you pay back the long term loan you took from stars yet.



Good pick.

Think i would go with BEASTIE BOYS - SABOTAGE
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Thank you for reminding me of that. tk1133 outright admitted to stealing from Poker Stars by using bad checks and then refusing to make them good, and abandoning the site. Goddamn hypocrite idiot, trying to make my real research look shady by association simply because the hand history database is collected by a botter, while tk1133 is a criminal who commits gross fraud against poker sites and admits it.

You are still on ignore tk1133, don't bother insulting me you worthless POS. What research have you ever contributed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
Wow I wasn't even aware of that, but what disgusting behavior. In his warped mind he probably justifies it because he thinks the site rigged him out of his money.
Quote:
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Seriously dude, I see you going after the poker sites, Indiana, bots, but he in glass houses shouldn't throw stones eh? Get your house in order before launching these attacks from a high horse.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:28 PM   #7864
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Spade,
Did you ever mention to anybody publicly that you were getting you HH's from that site? You provide us w/ all this helpful information as you call it, but I never heard you make a reference till I called you out?
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:30 PM   #7865
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Seriously dude, I see you going after the poker sites, Indiana, bots, but he in glass houses shouldn't throw stones eh? Get your house in order before launching these attacks from a high horse.
Dude, you just started posting here like a month ago. You search this thread and you see where the 3 page conversation about pokerstars and I came up. I'm not going to take a dump on PokerStars, I have much respect for them. However they made the mistake not I....Seriously yourself, funny you jump in a conversation that has been more the clearified months ago. Last time: When you make an Echeck on stars now, it clearly and instantly tells you the date that it clears your bank account. I did not have that luxery in the summer of 2008. However, I am one of the reasons why that was implemented. This was a 3 month back and forth ordeal. So dont act like I bounced an echeck and just never paid them back. I lost my entire bankroll and over 400 dollars to my bank. You think I'm gonna bend over and send them 150 dollars after that debacle?
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:42 PM   #7866
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Dude, you just started posting here like a month ago.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:51 PM   #7867
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Spade,
Did you ever mention to anybody publicly that you were getting you HH's from that site? You provide us w/ all this helpful information as you call it, but I never heard you make a reference till I called you out?

Yes, months ago. I've been totally up front about the entire project and about where the hand histories came from (there's an entire thread on it here), and Indiana is a well known botter on this forum and elsewhere. FYI, as far as I know most or all of the HH database was from human play, not that it makes any difference for statistical analysis of the deal.

Last edited by spadebidder; 08-20-2009 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:53 PM   #7868
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

3 years, look how many posts you have...look how many I have in 8 months...hmmm?
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:57 PM   #7869
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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3 years, look how many posts you have...look how many I have in 8 months...hmmm?
The fact that you just made fun of the same guy for the number of posts he has by saying "dude you have been here only 1 month" followed by mocking him for being here for 3 years is one of the main reasons why none of your posts are ever taken too seriously.

Even if you actually have a point that may be worthwhile, it gets lost with your reality changing base level trash talk and agendas that are infused in nearly all of your other posts.
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:32 PM   #7870
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by gilmore38 View Post
The real question here is....

If you think it is rigged what are you still doing playing?
Online Poker can be fun and profitable if there is no rigging. Sometimes it appears that this is happening, so some of us are checking into it.

Hope that answers your question.
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:34 PM   #7871
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Not making fun, he's joining a conversation that was discussed months ago! If he was around posting he'd know. However, I'm on this site every day, and I just see his posts w/ in the last month or two....
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:51 PM   #7872
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Generally, when I log on to FTP, I will be able to tell if I will have a winning session within the first few minutes.
This should not be the case for a legit site.
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:56 PM   #7873
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Generally, when I log on to FTP, I will be able to tell if I will have a winning session within the first few minutes.
This should not be the case for a legit site.
I can do that in live games, and on all sites. And when I don't feel it, I quit.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:18 PM   #7874
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Generally, when I log on to FTP, I will be able to tell if I will have a winning session within the first few minutes.
This should not be the case for a legit site.
This special intuitive power you have combined with the standard new account boomswitch effect combined with your innate ability to pattern map the rigged effect by sight/memory should make you a ton of money. After all, you should never lose much since you know when the site is rigged against you to lose.

You may even consider writing up and selling your knowledge of these things on youtube or something. Send me a consulting fee if it works out.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:44 PM   #7875
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Thats why you and a few others get called shills. Your have no desire or ambition to help anybody or anything. You dont have the mindset and attitude of a Poker Customer, but that of a Customer service rep....Same people saying insulting people over and over virtually out of nowhere...
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