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Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-19-2009, 03:34 AM   #7826
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Moneyyy View Post
Everyone seems so definitve to say that online poker is NOT rigged
Name one person in this thread who has said they are 100% sure that none of the major sites are rigged.
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Old 08-19-2009, 03:45 AM   #7827
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Moneyyy View Post
In no way am I making excuses, especially because lately I have been going through a downswing and have breakeven for a month or so, but ppl really should keep in mind that these poker rooms are legit companies, with their goal to make as much profit as possible. They dont care about the players, they care about generating revenue.
Of course a lot of people in the service industry (plus many of those studying it) would argue that businesses make the most money by genuinely caring for their customers.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:43 AM   #7828
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133
Doesn't matter what the purpose was you stained your hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair View Post
FYFP

Did you pay back the long term loan you took from stars yet.
Thank you for reminding me of that. tk1133 outright admitted to stealing from Poker Stars by using bad checks and then refusing to make them good, and abandoning the site. Goddamn hypocrite idiot, trying to make my real research look shady by association simply because the hand history database is collected by a botter, while tk1133 is a criminal who commits gross fraud against poker sites and admits it.

You are still on ignore tk1133, don't bother insulting me you worthless POS. What research have you ever contributed?

Last edited by spadebidder; 08-19-2009 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:51 AM   #7829
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Wow I wasn't even aware of that, but what disgusting behavior. In his warped mind he probably justifies it because he thinks the site rigged him out of his money.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:40 AM   #7830
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
Wow I wasn't even aware of that, but what disgusting behavior. In his warped mind he probably justifies it because he thinks the site rigged him out of his money.
Wow! Link please?
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:07 AM   #7831
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Wow! Link please?
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...68/index3.html
(more discussion forward in that thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133
I will actually come out and admit that I owe Poker stars money from echecks. I made echeck deposits and would cash out to my epassporte account(timeframe was when echecks first appeared on stars) obviously there were problems with the echecks. I had 21 days of deposites clear my bank account in one day! Supposed to be 10 business days.... I never came public about this problem b/c I was'nt familiar with 2+2 and I seriously undermined the integrity of online poker.Which was a horrible error in my judgement. Every deposit that put my account negative costed me 60 extra dollars in over draft fee's. The negative bal. isn't astronomical but I was so upset with the situation that I just chalked it up and moved on. It also effected my echecks on FTP...150 dollars I deposited there obviously wasn't honored by my bank, when they rightfully tried to withdraw their money. So I was left with a balance to FTP as well. So the point is it's possible to owe sites money with out cheating or malicious activity.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28.../#post10563906

discussion previously in this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...l#post10612666

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28.../index218.html

Last edited by spadebidder; 08-19-2009 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:54 AM   #7832
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa View Post
Of course a lot of people in the service industry (plus many of those studying it) would argue that businesses make the most money by genuinely caring for their customers.
What better way to care for 70% of your customer base and yourself by letting some of the less talented players win some pots? Sharing is caring...how dare you trick one of my customers into calling their whole stack off when they are a 30% favorite, we'll fix you and your flopped set...or your pocket aces...
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:57 AM   #7833
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Sounds like he needs credit counseling...or a bankroll management 101 class...
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:11 AM   #7834
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Shut up you jabroni. Your need a tissue? Sounds like your a bit emotional. Ignore me if you don't like what I have to say. Gonna report me? LoL. Anyways, it is what it is, your affiliated w/ illegal programs and sites. Doesn't matter what the purpose was you stained your hands.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:23 AM   #7835
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Arouet - I respect your intelligent posts, but this analogy is off base. Unlike tk1133, I have done nothing dishonest or unethical in the slightest.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:28 AM   #7836
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Arouet - I respect your intelligent posts, but this analogy is off base. Unlike tk1133, I have done nothing dishonest or unethical in the slightest.
Sorry Spade, I just went up a few posts to find one where Tk was attacking someone. Should have gone higher up to where the focus was on the sites...
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:29 AM   #7837
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishMedusa View Post
Of course a lot of people in the service industry (plus many of those studying it) would argue that businesses make the most money by genuinely caring for their customers.
It goes both ways. Some of the most successful business men are those who are the most ruthless and uncaring individuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Name one person in this thread who has said they are 100% sure that none of the major sites are rigged.
I didn't mean 100% definitive, I'm sorry I misguided by saying that, but what I meant by saying that is it seems like the general of consensus in this thread is that it's NOT rigged, and most seem confident enough.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:50 AM   #7838
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Off course its rigged but unfortunatley out of the millions of online players out there no one is clever enough to prove it.

Oh and also the stars owners want to risk loosing a mill a day in profit, as they are not very good business men.


Glad i only wasted 5 minutes reading the first few pages.

[ ] Rigged
[x] bad beats happen
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:27 PM   #7839
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I love when people post here SO SURE everything is fine. Security, we need to believe in a secure and stable world. Some people just can´t deal with doubt.

The same I say about the ones that are SO SURE it IS rigged, but the other are most interesting, they say they are SURE IT IS NOT rigged because that thought makes then feel better, less anxious.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:40 PM   #7840
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
I love when people post here SO SURE everything is fine. Security, we need to believe in a secure and stable world. Some people just can´t deal with doubt.

The same I say about the ones that are SO SURE it IS rigged, but the other are most interesting, they say they are SURE IT IS NOT rigged because that thought makes then feel better, less anxious.
Ok, I'll do it this time: please refer to one post in this thread where someone has said they're SURE it is not rigged. I've seen plenty who are SURE it is rigged though...
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:52 PM   #7841
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by barradri View Post
Off course its rigged but unfortunatley out of the millions of online players out there no one is clever enough to prove it.

Oh and also the stars owners want to risk loosing a mill a day in profit, as they are not very good business men.


Glad i only wasted 5 minutes reading the first few pages.

[ ] Rigged
[x] bad beats happen
The bold part means the opossite, its ironic. It means: Of course it is not rigged.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:00 PM   #7842
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
The bold part means the opossite, its ironic. It means: Of course it is not rigged.
The logical opposite of a sarcastic "of course it's rigged" is not, "I'm sure it's not rigged". Not even close.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:00 PM   #7843
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I just think that it would be very difficult without direct access to the online sites programming to prove that players are getting skimmed.

Any programming buffs on this thread?

How difficult would an external program with some sort of portal into the main programming be to detect? Could this come in and quickly disconnect during times when the inspectors show up?

I am just not so sure that anything could be detected by going through hand histories because there could be things happening within the acceptable ranges of variance to keep players from being able to spot where they are getting skimmed. I have heard players complain about their win rate being 20-30% lower on Stars in comparison to FT. I am seeing the same thing with my stats, negative ROI on Stars and 20% ROI on FT with about the same amount of hands played on each site. I dont consider the competition any stiffer at Stars in my personal experience.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:01 PM   #7844
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Someone asked me about a week ago to post graphs with my winrate, but I was on vacation and didn't have access to my home computer. Well, here it is now:

Hold'em (does not include my hands on the Crypto network pre-UIGEA, because PT3 doesn't support them ):


Omaha:
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:02 PM   #7845
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
The bold part means the opossite, its ironic. It means: Of course it is not rigged.
Sigh. But as long as we're trying to deconstruct ironic posts, if you keep on reading the rest of the line reads" "but unfortunatley out of the millions of online players out there no one is clever enough to prove it." The emphasis, like for most of us in this camp, is that before believing it to be rigged, he wants to see some evidence that it is.

Nice try though...
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:30 PM   #7846
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Sigh. But as long as we're trying to deconstruct ironic posts, if you keep on reading the rest of the line reads" "but unfortunatley out of the millions of online players out there no one is clever enough to prove it." The emphasis, like for most of us in this camp, is that before believing it to be rigged, he wants to see some evidence that it is.

Nice try though...
You should seek evidence that it is NOT rigged. So you can trust the service you are buying. To seek evidence that it is not rigged doesn´t means to be SURE it is rigged.

But as a user we have to take an active posture and seek for quality in the services we are using.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:35 PM   #7847
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
You should seek evidence that it is NOT rigged.
But this exists everywhere, tons and tons of it as seen by millions of online players. That's why people need to see some evidence of rigging before they give that any credence. You have reality exactly backwards. That phenomenon isn't unusual however, as people tend to think that others believe as they do, even when they are small minorities with an unsupported opposition viewpoint.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:58 PM   #7848
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
How difficult would an external program with some sort of portal into the main programming be to detect? Could this come in and quickly disconnect during times when the inspectors show up?
Would be very easy to detect since a ton of programmers would know about it, including ones that moved on to other fields or were working for rooms that closed down. One of them would have told by now, and they cannot be legally prevented from telling about a criminal act.

Maybe they are all killed I suppose. One poster suggested they are all put in a cave.

Oh, and stats geeks would be able to tell as well, but that is sort of a bonus.

Hope that helps.
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Old 08-19-2009, 03:00 PM   #7849
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Would be very easy to detect since a ton of programmers would know about it, including ones that moved on to other fields or were working for rooms that closed down. One of them would have told by now, and they cannot be legally prevented from telling about a criminal act.

Maybe they are all killed I suppose. One poster suggested they are all put in a cave.

Oh, and stats geeks would be able to tell as well, but that is sort of a bonus.

Hope that helps.
Where is that cave?
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Old 08-19-2009, 03:20 PM   #7850
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I think there is something in the youtube about "The Cave" as it is called.....gonna find it and put here.
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