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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:00 PM   #7701
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

It's just as standard, meaning it happens just as often.

And you didn't answer my other question.

EDIT: And this, pay up $5M:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
I'm going to accuse you right now of scamming me out of $5 million dollars. Prove you didn't, or pay me my $5M back. After all, using your logic the burden of proof is on you, is it not?

Explain how the Isle of Man Gambling Supervision Commission is not a trustworthy organization.

I'm going to guess you can't see how your "second off" contradicts your "first off".
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:00 PM   #7702
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I have a nagging belief that not all Stars tournaments are 100% legit, 100% of the time.
Like I've stated in this thread before, I and others are going through my stats to look for patterns etc.

I'm just gonna continue to play and try to get better, if they have to steal a little of my thunder now and then so be it...

BTW, you're gonna get in trouble posting all those HH's here.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:40 PM   #7703
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
I made a deposit on OP this week just to have some fun - This is why I do not play OP:

Hand#19545B7C52000118 - $5 Heads-up NL Hold'em Shootout - Turbo T5995602 -- Table 1 -- $0/$25/$50 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/11 - 19:20:02
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($450 in chips) M = 6

Hand#19555B9848000079 - $1 NLH Short Stack - 6-players T6002760 -- Table 1 -- $0/$25/$50 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 16:32:24
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($393 in chips) M = 5.24

Hand#19565B9EE1000004 - $2 Heads-up NL Hold'em T6004449 -- Table 1 -- $0/$10/$20 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 20:01:03
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($470 in chips) M = 15.67

Hand#19555B9312000007 - $3 NL Hold'em Super-Turbo - 6 Players T6001426 -- Table 1 -- $0/$25/$50 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 12:51:22
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($95 in chips) M = 1.27

Hand#19555B94C2000029 - $3 NL Hold'em Super-Turbo - 6 Players T6001858 -- Table 1 -- $0/$125/$250 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 14:11:21
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($450 in chips) M = 1.2

Hand#19555B9C9A000017 - $3 NL Hold'em Super-Turbo - 6 Players T6003866 -- Table 1 -- $0/$125/$250 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 18:50:47
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($840 in chips) M = 2.24

Hand#19555B9250000095 - $6 NL Hold'em Turbo - 6 Players T6001232 -- Table 1 -- $30/$150/$300 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 13:06:28
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($784 in chips) M = 1.45DEALER

Hand#19555B891C000037 - $8 NL Hold'em Super-Turbo - 6 Players T5998876 -- Table 1 -- $0/$200/$400 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 02:03:03
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($2,090 in chips) M = 3.48DEALER
Interesting how you left out the hands that left you with such crippled stacks. Couldn't be because you played bad, could it? I mean, you'd definitely post if they were "bad beats" and yet they aren't here. Hmmmm. And you obviously lost hands as the bigger stack, seeing as you're still in the tournaments.
Quote:
Hand#19555B84ED000011 - $5 NLH Short Stack - 6-players T5997805 -- Table 1 -- $0/$10/$20 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 00:13:42
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($205 in chips)
Seat 4: jkno***4 ($250 in chips) DEALER
Seat 6: bare***6 ($1,455 in chips)
Seat 10: ted***10 ($1,090 in chips)
ted***10: posts small blind 10
TYdonkman: posts big blind 20
Dealt to TYdonkman [2c,Jd]
jkno***4: folds
bare***6: folds
ted***10: calls 10
TYdonkman: checks
*** FLOP *** [4h,Jc,2h]
ted***10: checks
TYdonkman: bets 20
ted***10: raises to 40
TYdonkman: raises to 60
ted***10: raises to 80
TYdonkman: raises to 100
ted***10: raises to 120
TYdonkman: raises to 140
ted***10: raises to 160
TYdonkman: raises to 180
ted***10: raises to 200
TYdonkman: is all in 5.0000
ted***10: returns uncalled bet 15
ted***10: shows [Ks Kd]
TYdonkman: shows [2c Jd]
*** TURN *** [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [Th]
***SHOW DOWN***
ted***10: wins 410 with Three of a Kind, Kings
TYdonkman finished 4 out of 6 players.
Impressive minraise war on the flop. Would you have posted this if the turn was a 4?
Quote:
Hand#19555B8A73000051 - $6 NL Hold'em Turbo - 6 Players T5999219 -- Table 1 -- $20/$100/$200 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 03:29:05
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($1,100 in chips) DEALER
Seat 5: AAA1***5 ($7,900 in chips)
TYdonkman posts ante of 20
AAA11 posts ante of 20
AAA1***5: posts small blind 100
TYdonkman: posts big blind 200
Dealt to TYdonkman [Ah,Js]
AAA1***5: raises to 640
TYdonkman: is all in 880.0000
AAA1***5: calls 440
TYdonkman: shows [Ah Js]
AAA1***5: shows [8s Ts]
*** FLOP *** [Qd,Td,8c]
*** TURN *** [2s]
*** RIVER *** [5s]
***SHOW DOWN***
AAA1***5: wins 2,200 with Two Pairs, Tens and Eights
TYdonkman finished 2 out of 4 players.
This is so hilariously standard it's kind of funny you posted it. Your M was around 3 and villain had a massive chiplead. You got it in as a slight favorite and lost.
Quote:
Hand#19555B891C000037 - $8 NL Hold'em Super-Turbo - 6 Players T5998876 -- Table 1 -- $0/$200/$400 NL Hold'em -- 2009/08/12 - 02:03:03
Seat 1: TYdonkman ($2,090 in chips) DEALER
Seat 9: ROBE***9 ($1,670 in chips)
Seat 10: Newg***10 ($5,240 in chips)
ROBE***9: posts small blind 200
Newg***10: posts big blind 400
Dealt to TYdonkman [Ts,Ac]
TYdonkman: raises to 1,400
ROBE***9: folds
Newg***10: raises to 4,000
TYdonkman: is all in 690.0000
Newg***10: returns uncalled bet 1,910
Newg***10: shows [Ks Kd]
TYdonkman: shows [Ts Ac]
*** FLOP *** [7h,8s,Ad]
*** TURN *** [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [Th]
***SHOW DOWN***
Newg***10: wins 4,380 with Three of a Kind, Kings
TYdonkman finished 3 out of 6 players.
You got it in as a dog and lost. Bummer.
Quote:
TYdonkman: shows [6c 6h]
$And***4: shows [As Kc]
A coinflip, how very exciting.
Quote:
bash***6: shows [6c 6s]
TYdonkman: shows [Qd Ah]
Wow, pretty much the same coinflip only this time you're the slight dog.
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:47 PM   #7704
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Interesting how you left out the hands that left you with such crippled stacks. Couldn't be because you played bad, could it? I mean, you'd definitely post if they were "bad beats" and yet they aren't here. Hmmmm.
Otatop, you just don't get it. He was trying to play bad. It's the only way to take advantage of the rigged RNG. LDO
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:16 PM   #7705
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

lol, R4R is so pathetic. He's not even trying, nor is he interested in trying. He makes a post saying the hands all happened consecutively, and yet the times are all over the map. A bunch of those hands are effectively coinflips. It's as if he has the expectation that he's supposed to win as a 60% favorite 90% of the time, and if he doesn't it's rigged. Not to mention he obviously left out all of his winning hands that held up according to his skewed expectations.

Oh, and he showed us how bad he is at poker, and that he apparently expects something other than an all in fest in the super turbos where those 60/40 all ins are going to happen constantly with mediocre hands.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:24 PM   #7706
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlisterXists View Post
I have a nagging belief that not all Stars tournaments are 100% legit, 100% of the time.
Like I've stated in this thread before, I and others are going through my stats to look for patterns etc.

I'm just gonna continue to play and try to get better, if they have to steal a little of my thunder now and then so be it...

BTW, you're gonna get in trouble posting all those HH's here.
I was just deep in a pokerstars tournament right before the money and some guy takes a minute to call my all in after the turn. The card gives him a gutshot. Not sure why he called my pre flop raise with q10 os. There was no other hand or draw possible to beat him. I am sitting totally burned and watching the dead bodies pile up and I kid you not, in less than 60 seconds, another 75 players busted.

They are juicing these tournaments to get them done faster, it is so obvious without even looking at hands...just sit and watch sometime after being miraculously busted by a 4 outer. I give up...over and out...
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:43 PM   #7707
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I was just deep in a pokerstars tournament right before the money and some guy takes a minute to call my all in after the turn. The card gives him a gutshot. Not sure why he called my pre flop raise with q10 os. There was no other hand or draw possible to beat him. I am sitting totally burned and watching the dead bodies pile up and I kid you not, in less than 60 seconds, another 75 players busted.

They are juicing these tournaments to get them done faster, it is so obvious without even looking at hands...just sit and watch sometime after being miraculously busted by a 4 outer. I give up...over and out...
Geezabalou, analyzing hand histories shore is hurd. So is lernin muh game better. Oh look, that guy has a naggin' feelin' that pokerstars be rigged. Heck, so do I. 'Nuff said. Over and out!
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:07 PM   #7708
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
Geezabalou, analyzing hand histories shore is hurd. So is lernin muh game better. Oh look, that guy has a naggin' feelin' that pokerstars be rigged. Heck, so do I. 'Nuff said. Over and out!
LOL! GENIUS!
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:11 PM   #7709
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
They are juicing these tournaments to get them done faster, it is so obvious without even looking at hands
So obvious, in fact, that when you do look at the hands, you can't even tell! These ****ers are good.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:45 PM   #7710
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
They are juicing these tournaments to get them done faster, it is so obvious without even looking at hands...just sit and watch sometime after being miraculously busted by a 4 outer. I give up...over and out...
Please explain how they do this "juicing". Then see post 7222 and also post 4187 for some examples of how easy it would be to detect any manipulation of the community cards. The first example shows flops, but I've created similar tests for turns and rivers too.

Last edited by spadebidder; 08-13-2009 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:55 PM   #7711
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Interesting how you left out the hands that left you with such crippled stacks. Couldn't be because you played bad, could it? I mean, you'd definitely post if they were "bad beats" and yet they aren't here. Hmmmm. And you obviously lost hands as the bigger stack, seeing as you're still in the tournaments.

I didn't even look at any other hands except for what I got knocked out of the tournaments with, numb nuts. And I didn't intend to prove online poker is rigged by posting 10 HH im simply showing why I do not win on OP as these type of things consistently happen to me. Im not a bad player whatsoever.

Also - this is all in one day.
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:11 PM   #7712
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
im simply showing why I do not win on OP as these type of things consistently happen to me. Im not a bad player whatsoever.
So you got incredibly short stacked in at least 7 tournaments because the sites are rigged against your amazingly good play?
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:20 PM   #7713
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
So you got incredibly short stacked in at least 7 tournaments because the sites are rigged against your amazingly good play?

Hm... well if the sites did manipulate the cards wouldn't that be the intent? And if you notice most of my hh are when its down to the final 2 people which means that i am ITM.
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:21 PM   #7714
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Yesterday, right after my deposit I also got a royal flush and a straight flush in a matter of 200 hands. Please, math guys - tell me the odds of that?


Here is my royal, btw:

http://cakepoker.com/en/HandHistory/...TNxYjFxcPHzMHF
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:21 PM   #7715
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
I do not win on OP as these type of things consistently happen to me.

Im not a bad player whatsoever.
These two statements together seem to be a logical fallacy.
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Old 08-13-2009, 11:48 PM   #7716
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
I didn't even look at any other hands except for what I got knocked out of the tournaments with, numb nuts.
LOL! Good approach. Biased sample much?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Im not a bad player whatsoever.
Wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Also - this is all in one day.
Pretty irrelevant when you consider the fact that you never told us how many hands you play in a day. I've seen people play 10k hands in a day. Also - you weren't a big favorite on most of your posted hands.
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:22 AM   #7717
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

You still haven't responded to below, and you still haven't answered why you deposited in the first place if you don't play. Pay up my $5M or prove you don't owe it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
I'm going to accuse you right now of scamming me out of $5 million dollars. Prove you didn't, or pay me my $5M back. After all, using your logic the burden of proof is on you, is it not?

Explain how the Isle of Man Gambling Supervision Commission is not a trustworthy organization.

I'm going to guess you can't see how your "second off" contradicts your "first off".
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:37 AM   #7718
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Isle of Man Gambling Supervision Commission
The isle of man does not do anything to supervise/regulate online poker.
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:55 AM   #7719
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
The isle of man does not do anything to supervise/regulate online poker.
According to Pokerstars and the Isle of Man government website, that is false. I PMed Josem, so maybe he can add additional insight. But feel free to check it out yourself (not that you will): here and here. At the Isle of Man website, be sure to check out the Legislation section.

When can I expect my $5M back? I'm dead serious.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:10 AM   #7720
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
PMed Josem, so maybe he can add additional insight. But feel free to check it out yourself (not that you will): here and here.
'

Please don't just send me to their website, I already know their deal. They claim to regulate/supervise online poker yet they do not do so. If they had done so, the UB and AP problem would have never happened.


Bernie Madoff's auditers also claimed to be doing their jobs.. Catch my drift?
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:20 AM   #7721
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Hm... well if the sites did manipulate the cards wouldn't that be the intent?
To make you lose specifically? Whose sister to you **** years ago to piss off all the sites?
Quote:
And if you notice most of my hh are when its down to the final 2 people which means that i am ITM.
So it's just rigged against you winning, then? Maybe you just *gasp* suck at HU. That hand where your opponent has an almost 9 to 1 chiplead on you kind of makes that seem possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
They claim to regulate/supervise online poker yet they do not do so. If they had done so, the UB and AP problem would have never happened.
Wat. Feel free to point out where on UB or AP's site it says they're regulated by IoM.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:24 AM   #7722
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
To make you lose specifically?
Well not me personally. Each person is targeted though.. It's called a program. Its not some guy sitting behind a desk pressing buttons, imo

Quote:
Wat. Feel free to point out where on UB or AP's site it says they're regulated by IoM.
my mistake. KGC. even still, Isle of man has still shown no proof of their "consistent" regulation.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:26 AM   #7723
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
\Please don't just send me to their website, I already know their deal. They claim to regulate/supervise online poker yet they do not do so. If they had done so, the UB and AP problem would have never happened.
Then you would know, as it shows here, that UB and AP aren't regulated by them. I didn't claim they regulated all of online poker. You said they don't do anything to regulate online poker. Clearly, they do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Bernie Madoff's auditers also claimed to be doing their jobs.. Catch my drift?
That governments and other regulatory establishments are useless? Is that your point?

And you still haven't answered when you're going to pay me my $5M, you scammer.
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:27 AM   #7724
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
'

Please don't just send me to their website, I already know their deal. They claim to regulate/supervise online poker yet they do not do so. If they had done so, the UB and AP problem would have never happened.


Bernie Madoff's auditers also claimed to be doing their jobs.. Catch my drift?
I think you are confusing the Isle of Man with the Kahnawake. The IOM have nothing to do with the AP/UB issue. It just sounds like you've got the names mixed up there.

The Isle of Man regulators are appointed by an independent, democratically elected government.

Their regulatory regime was approved by the UK - the same review process that declined to recognise the Kahnawake as legitimate.

Here's a press release on the issue:

http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_...ases/2261.aspx

And a comment from the relevant UK Secretary of State at the time:
Quote:
"I make no apology for banning adverts for websites operating from places that don’t meet our strict standards. Protection is my number one priority. The fact that only Alderney and the Isle of Man have been able to meet the high standards demanded by our white listing criteria shows how tough the Gambling Act is. Indeed white listing has actually helped drive up regulatory standards in some countries."
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Old 08-14-2009, 01:32 AM   #7725
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
my mistake. KGC. even still, Isle of man has still shown no proof of their "consistent" regulation.
I think that's wrong.

I think that the endorsement by the UK Minister on the issue is very strong evidence of their credibility.

Also, from the link above:
Quote:
1. The Gambling Act 2005 bans companies based in countries, territories or jurisdictions outside the EEA from advertising foreign gambling in the UK, unless they can demonstrate that they have a satisfactory regulatory regime in place including measures that:

* act to protect children and vulnerable people from being harmed or exploited;
* keep out crime;
* ensure that gambling is conducted fairly;
enforce compliance; and
* ensure gambling operators are subject to rules on money-laundering and financial probity.
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