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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:39 PM   #726
Bobo Fett
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
LOL I dont have an absolute conclusion. I have stated throughout this thread that I could be wrong and hope that I am.

My opinion started way before these 9 hands. The 9 hands just serve as more support to my opinion.
That's not what you said:

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All in with best hand 9/11 times. Win 1/11. Rigged.
But I'm glad to hear you're coming around.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:18 PM   #727
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Yeah it says Rigged. So what.

If it said 100% absolute certainty no doubt rigged I could see your point Aaron T.

Interesting rationalization.

So, unless someone adds "100% absolute certainty no doubt" before making a statement of fact, it does not mean that made a statement of fact.

Do you even think about how stuff like this sounds before you say it?

Correction, do you 100% absolute certainty no doubt think how this stuff sounds before you say it?



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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Is that where you play? Im sorry I have no experience of the play money tables.
I certainly have played at play money tables when starting at a new room to get a feel for the software. Safe to say the play lacks any meaning , so I suspect it would take you about 20 hands to determine it was rigged based on your beliefs.

Micro stakes are only a bit better in this regard, and I do find it funny that you regard bad play by bad players at micro stakes that once in a while get rewarded as a sign of it being rigged, instead of just bad players playing badly.

Sometimes something is just what it seems even if a major conspiracy makes it more interesting.



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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Yes but this is not coin tossing. I havent lost overcards vs underpair 9 times in a row i.e coinflip. If you throw a four sided dice 1000 times its very unlikely to land on the same side 10 times in a row.

Yes they did happen in that order.

Another poster with a poor grasp of probability.

Clearly you do not have actual data that can be verified, rather it is just what you remember, and frankly that is never a good source of "proof," particularly when a person has an agenda to fill as well.

You saying "yes it happened" does not mean anything in terms of evidence, even if you believe it did happen.

Your last point about a poster not understanding probability is ironic in that it is accurate, though not in the way you may think.

The two possibilities are the following:

1) A microstakes player using his memory does not get all of his facts straight about his bad beats

2) A major poker site has a team of people targeting this micro stakes player by inflicting bad beats on him.


Which of these two options seems more likely...

Hint, with 100% absolute certainty no doubt it is choice 1



P.S. Do you create similar paranoid conspiracy beliefs in any other aspects of life when something unlucky takes place?

Last edited by Monteroy; 02-03-2009 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:41 PM   #728
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
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The amazing part is that none of my opponents said anything about a rigged game. How could they not see how bad I was cheating?
Good mechanic?
No. The house wanted to let me win sometimes so I'd keep playing and paying fees and rake, and they don't want the best players to win too much or it runs off the fish like me. They have a special shuffle that takes care of this. They do it just enough that it is undetectable, it's all in the timing.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:52 PM   #729
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Let me say this to start with. I have NO proof that ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED.
These posts are just so much more fun with "proof".
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:34 PM   #730
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
The two possibilities are the following:

1) A microstakes player using his memory does not get all of his facts straight about his bad beats

2) A major poker site has a team of people targeting this micro stakes player by inflicting bad beats on him.


Which of these two options seems more likely...

Hint, with 100% absolute certainty no doubt it is choice 1



P.S. Do you create similar paranoid conspiracy beliefs in any other aspects of life when something unlucky takes place?
Option 2 is just lol. Of course there isnt a team of people and to think that I believe that is absurd.

Option 3) The software is pre programmed to inflict the bad beats and that is only known to a small group of people. Certainly not the average employee of the site. Cant have whistleblowers.

Quote:
1) A microstakes player using his memory does not get all of his facts straight about his bad beats
Of course theres truth in this but I jotted down the beats as they happened. So in this case the facts are right on about those beats.

Quote:
P.S. Do you create similar paranoid conspiracy beliefs in any other aspects of life when something unlucky takes place?
Yes Monty, Yes I do.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:38 PM   #731
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Last night I played in my weekly league tournament (live). In 4.5 hours I was dealt about 125 hands. I had AA twice at 221:1 odds each time and I got pocket pairs at least 10 other times when I should have had only 7 total pairs all night at 17:1 odds. I estimate I saw the flop 35 times all night, and in those I flopped 2-pairs 3 times at 24:1 odds each time, or more than double the fair number. I hit a 2-outer on the turn twice, at 23:1 against me, and I probably didn't even see 23 turns all night. So that was way over normal odds. I also flopped a straight with a 2-gapper at 153:1 odds (recall that I only saw about 35 flops). So that wasn't supposed to happen either. I ran good, and I won 1st place which paid in four figures. The amazing part is that none of my opponents said anything about a rigged game. How could they not see how bad I was cheating?

.
Yes but I wasnt there was I. If I was I would have constantly droned on about how rigged that tournament was.

Comparing live to online in these threads always makes me lol.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:39 PM   #732
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Rigged.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:41 PM   #733
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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SooperFish,

It's pretty nonsensical that you're willing to write lots in posts here, but actually unwilling to do anything to verify your suspicions. This is even more absurd since you've already been given simple drafts that you can use yourself.

It seems to me that you're deliberately trolling and wasting everyone's time here.
No one has to look at or reply to this thread if they dont want to. If its too upsetting for you Josem just dont look. Just like when you were afraid of the dark when you were little, just hide under the covers.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:53 PM   #734
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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No one has to look at or reply to this thread if they dont want to. If its too upsetting for you Josem just dont look. Just like when you were afraid of the dark when you were little, just hide under the covers.
TTH officially RIC
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:59 PM   #735
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Comparing live to online in these threads always makes me lol.
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I wish online poker was legit but I know after playing on and off for the last 5/6 years that it is and I'm sticking to live from now on.
.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:08 PM   #736
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

pwned ^^^^^^
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:22 PM   #737
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24
Comparing live to online in these threads always makes me lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24
I wish online poker was legit but I know after playing on and off for the last 5/6 years that it is and I'm sticking to live from now on.

.
correction-Isnt.

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pwned ^^^^^^
eh no.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:23 PM   #738
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
No. Not in small samples. 30% means over the long run. Do you know that you only need to flip a coin 1000 times to have a very high chance of hitting a streak of 10 heads in a row? Many players play over 1000 hands every day. 10 bad beats in a row is not an aberration, and I seriously doubt the example given was consecutive hands, making it not even noteworthy at all.
Actually, 10 bad beats in a row is an extreme aberration, and if it actually happened, spectacularly noteworthy given the context. The probability that you'll lose the next 10 times you are a 70% favorite is 0.00059%.

If you play a million hands, it will probably happen a couple of times, though.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:37 PM   #739
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Actually for the 9 bad beats which were all lost its like losing 24% hands 9 times in a row which is a little over 2% chance of happening.
No. The probability that you will lose 9 consecutive times when you are a 76% favorite is 0.000264%.

You'll see it happen once or twice every million hands or so.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:41 PM   #740
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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I play quite low limit and I play for fun although I think its rigged Im having FUN.
www.gamblersanonymous.org
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:48 PM   #741
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by Weevil99 View Post
No. The probability that you will lose 9 consecutive times when you are a 76% favorite is 0.000264%.

You'll see it happen once or twice every million hands or so.
Ok thanks for clearing that up mate.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:54 PM   #742
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

They werent all 24% but that was the average chance the Villain had.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:16 PM   #743
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Comparing live to online in these threads always makes me lol.
why would that make you laugh, out loud, or otherwise?

wouldn't the motivation to "rig" the deal so as to make more money be exactly the same for a cardroom as an online site? in fact, wouldn't it be easier with only a few hundred tables and a couple thousand players? wouldn't the need to do such a thing be higher, since an online room with more players and more tables = more rake?

the live cardrooms gotta pay the bills too! online sites don't have to air condition the place for all their players or vacuum up the crud they leave all over the floor after eating greasy sandwiches at the table and sucking down all the free drinks (paid for by the house...) for hours on end. also, somebody's gotta clean the bathrooms - plus toilet paper and them pucks in the urinals ain't free either...

the most frequent motive mentioned as to why an online site would rig the deal is greed. it seems to me that with operating costs lower and volume of play higher, sites would be more profitable, thus less likely to be greedy enough to jeopardize their reputation.

if the reason why they would do it is because they want to increase profitability, then that same skepticism needs to be applied to every single business in any industry where extra money can be made by doing something dishonest.

call channel 8 on your side about the local restaurant that you think is serving cats to diners without proof and see if that story makes the news. but call 'em with the kitty whiskers they put in your salad and they might just check it out.

post about rigged sites when you've got some kitty whiskers, ok?
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:25 PM   #744
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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why would that make you laugh, out loud, or otherwise?

wouldn't the motivation to "rig" the deal so as to make more money be exactly the same for a cardroom as an online site? in fact, wouldn't it be easier with only a few hundred tables and a couple thousand players? wouldn't the need to do such a thing be higher, since an online room with more players and more tables = more rake?

the live cardrooms gotta pay the bills too! online sites don't have to air condition the place for all their players or vacuum up the crud they leave all over the floor after eating greasy sandwiches at the table and sucking down all the free drinks (paid for by the house...) for hours on end. also, somebody's gotta clean the bathrooms - plus toilet paper and them pucks in the urinals ain't free either...

the most frequent motive mentioned as to why an online site would rig the deal is greed. it seems to me that with operating costs lower and volume of play higher, sites would be more profitable, thus less likely to be greedy enough to jeopardize their reputation.

if the reason why they would do it is because they want to increase profitability then that same skepticism needs to be applied to every single business in any industry where extra money can be made by doing something dishonest.

call channel 8 on your side about the local restaurant that you think is serving cats to diners without proof and see if that story makes the news. but call 'em with the kitty whiskers they put in your salad and they might just check it out.

post about rigged sites when you've got some kitty whiskers, ok?
Hey Mark I was wondering when you were gonna turn up again like a knight in shining armour to defend your beloved online poker.

You should change your name to Lancelot.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:26 PM   #745
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by Weevil99 View Post
No. The probability that you will lose 9 consecutive times when you are a 76% favorite is 0.000264%.

You'll see it happen once or twice every million hands or so.
Heres my proof. Rigged.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:29 PM   #746
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Hey Mark I was wondering when you were gonna turn up again like a knight in shining armour to defend your beloved online poker.


you were dreaming about me and even what outfit I was wearing.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:32 PM   #747
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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No one has to look at or reply to this thread if they dont want to. If its too upsetting for you Josem just dont look. Just like when you were afraid of the dark when you were little, just hide under the covers.
I don't feel "upset". The overriding emotion I have at the moment towards you is "pity".

There's also a little frustration 'cause you're apparently lying - you claim you don't care enough about this issue to actually contact the sites or regulators, yet happy to participate in a thread stretching 100 posts because you care so much.

You are happy to make false and baseless accusations of bizarre international criminal frauds... but not happy to actually report these claims to the proper authority.

There are two possibilities here:

a) You're a lying liar that lies;

or

b) You are an intellectual fraud who is happy to sit in silence while other people are the "victims" of this international "scam".


If you think that online poker is a scam or fraud, or that you have been targetted, it is your moral duty to report it to the relevant authorities.

Your failure to make this report shows that you are either complicit in any such nefarious activity, or you are a lying liar that lies.

Which is it?
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:32 PM   #748
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by Weevil99 View Post
Actually, 10 bad beats in a row is an extreme aberration, and if it actually happened, spectacularly noteworthy given the context. The probability that you'll lose the next 10 times you are a 70% favorite is 0.00059%.

If you play a million hands, it will probably happen a couple of times, though.
yeah, but it wasn't 10 in a row, his criteria for the hands he chose to include were hands that crippled him or knocked him out. shockingly, he lost the hands which knocked him out of the tournies
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:41 PM   #749
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Heres my proof. Rigged.
Not quite. Those are the odds of that type of situation happening, but he did not specify what the estimated odds are of you unintentionally misinterpreting the data or intentionally fabricating it to meet your "proof" needs.

The odds of that are considerably higher.


While you may get off on this minor bit of trolling, the reality is that all of your proof and data is memory or claims that you jotted something down.

Would you believe anything someone else said if that is what they used as proof, even if they added a preface that it was absolutely 100% guaranteed?

You are a microstakes player that has more awareness of the game then the average horrid microstakes player, but you lack the discipline to accept that part of the game is that at times bad players playing badly will sometimes have their day at your expense.

If and when you adapt a longer term view of the game you will accept that all the above is is a "donk tax" that keeps the bad players playing a bit longer as they win once in a while. If bad players never won then it would basically be chess, and those with no skill would quit after a short while and contribute less to the poker economy.

Why guys like you think sites go out of their way to secretly rig micro stakes games in ways that would risk everything for no gain (heh, action hands that take twice as long...) amazes me unless you believe that about every business that exists. At least then your paranoid delusions will be consistent.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:50 PM   #750
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

So lets summarize these twelve hands:

1. Lost as favorite
2. Lost as underdog
3. Lost as favorite
4. Tied board as preflop underdog
5. Lost as favorite
6. Lost coin flip (slight underdog)
7. Lost as favorite
8. Lost as favorite
9. Folded
10. Lost as favorite
11. Lost as favorite
12. Won as big underdog (suck out).

Dang, that's some serious riggedness that can't be denied. I'd never play again.

Last edited by spadebidder; 02-03-2009 at 11:57 PM. Reason: where's those 9 consecutive beats again?
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