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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,448 34.94%
No 5,524 55.98%
Undecided 895 9.07%
Voters: 9867. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-03-2009, 04:32 PM   #701
solucky
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River View Post
Live poker shuffle/shuffle machines are rigged:

Poker Shuffle Machines - How reliable are they to provide a randon shuffle

(Current discussion in the Brick and Mortar forum.)
The "audit" shuffling engines are random, but without any problem they can use a second one.
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:40 PM   #702
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
All in with best hand 9/11 times. Win 1/11. Rigged.
This just in: You're supposed to lose 70/30s 30% of the time.
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:43 PM   #703
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
All in with best hand 9/11 times. Win 1/11. Rigged.
Did you lose to the same person?

Basically I am wondering if you think it is rigged for certain players or just rigged against you? If you think it is rigged against you, why do you think you are that important to the room to rig it against you?

Also, since you generally seem to lose, should it not be rigged for you? Is it because you are on to them that they chose not to do this?

Am I part of it all by asking these questions? Basically, I am trying to figure out ways of adding new offshoots to your rigged beliefs. I just drank some coffee if that matters.

Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:01 PM   #704
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
But of course its not rigged. It would be ******ed to assume that after some of those beats right?
Yes. And your point?

Last edited by spadebidder; 02-03-2009 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:07 PM   #705
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
This just in: You're supposed to lose 70/30s 30% of the time.
so you agree it's rigged then, right?
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:12 PM   #706
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Did you lose to the same person?

Basically I am wondering if you think it is rigged for certain players or just rigged against you? If you think it is rigged against you, why do you think you are that important to the room to rig it against you?

Also, since you generally seem to lose, should it not be rigged for you? Is it because you are on to them that they chose not to do this?

Am I part of it all by asking these questions? Basically, I am trying to figure out ways of adding new offshoots to your rigged beliefs.
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I just drank some coffee if that matters.

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the funniest thing i've ever heard
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:31 PM   #707
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Old 02-03-2009, 05:42 PM   #708
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Did you lose to the same person?

Basically I am wondering if you think it is rigged for certain players or just rigged against you? If you think it is rigged against you, why do you think you are that important to the room to rig it against you?

Also, since you generally seem to lose, should it not be rigged for you? Is it because you are on to them that they chose not to do this?

Am I part of it all by asking these questions? . Basically, I am trying to figure out ways of adding new offshoots to your rigged beliefs I just drank some coffee if that matters.

Thanks.
Quote:
Basically I am wondering if you think it is rigged for certain players or just rigged against you?
LOL. Rigged or certain situations and for poor players in particular. So rigged against winning players like me who get it in with the best and lose every time with the best hand as shown in my previous post.

Quote:
why do you think you are that important to the room to rig it against you?
Because i am more likely to win due to the fact that I generally get my stack in with the best of it.

Quote:
Also, since you generally seem to lose, should it not be rigged for you? Is it because you are on to them that they chose not to do this?
Lol I have a 16% ROI in tournaments. So generally I WIN.

Quote:
Am I part of it all by asking these questions? . Basically, I am trying to figure out ways of adding new offshoots to your rigged beliefs
Judging by this post I would you you are highly unlikely to be part of it, though I think there are posters who for some reason attack posts like this.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:44 PM   #709
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
All human players are followed around by Reps. and they can hit buttons to change the flop turn or river to take your money?
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:50 PM   #710
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

You really can't understand why people might question your conclusions based off of a sample of nine hands? Seriously?
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:06 PM   #711
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
1. Me KK Villain AQ All in pre flop. Flop A 2 5.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 71.609% 71.44% 00.17% 1223243 2927.50 { KhKs }
Hand 1: 28.391% 28.22% 00.17% 483206 2927.50 { AcQd }

Quote:
2. Me 88 Villain 10 10. Board 10 7 4 8.
So?

Quote:
3. Me AQ Villain A 10. Flop A J 7 All in. Turn 10. Lol.
Board: Ad Jd Th
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.111% 40.10% 01.01% 397 10.00 { AcQd }
Hand 1: 58.889% 57.88% 01.01% 573 10.00 { AhTs }

You're not real good at math, are you?

Quote:
4. 9 6 vs Villain A Q. Flop 9 6 5. I bet 3/4 pot he calls. Turn 7.check,check. River 8.
You're surprised when fish call ragged flops with overcards?

How long have you been playing this game?

Quote:
5. KK vs Villain AK. Flop Q J 4. Villain shoves I call. Turn 8 River well what a surprise 10.
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 71.919% 71.31% 00.61% 706 6.00 { KcKd }
Hand 1: 28.081% 27.47% 00.61% 272 6.00 { AhKs }

Quote:
6.Me KJ vs K5 vs QJ. All in pre flop. Board x x x x Q.
Hand 0: 49.441% 45.90% 03.54% 629240 48478.67 { KcJd }
Hand 1: 23.300% 20.58% 02.73% 282034 37355.67 { Kd5h }
Hand 2: 27.258% 26.21% 01.05% 359226 14419.67 { QhJs }

Wow, you lost a coinflip! Call the newspapers!

Quote:
7. 5h4h vs 5 limpers. Flop 3 hearts. I bet 4 callers. Turn another heart.
There are 8 hearts left. 17% chance a heart comes on the turn.

Quote:
8. Q 10 vs 73. Flop Q 6 4. Im short I bet 3/4 pot. Villain Allin shows 7 3 Im like wtfwtfwtf. Turn x River 5.
I has a gutshot!

Again, how long you been playing this game?

Quote:
9. KK vs Chip leader. Flop A. Villain All in. I fold.
You should be happy he played it so badly. Saved you a bunch of chips.

Quote:
10a) AQ vs AJ on the bubble both All in pre flop.Board K Q 8 6 10.
Hand 0: 73.477% 70.58% 02.90% 1208514 49644.00 { AcQd }
Hand 1: 26.523% 23.62% 02.90% 404502 49644.00 { AdJh }

Quote:
10b) 10 10 all in preflop vs A 9. Board J 9 8 3 9.
Hand 0: 71.822% 71.64% 00.18% 1226737 3078.00 { TcTd }
Hand 1: 28.178% 28.00% 00.18% 479411 3078.00 { Ad9h }

Quote:
Me Kc 9c vs 44. Flop Ac 7 4c. All in. Turn 3h River 5c.
Hand 0: 24.646% 24.65% 00.00% 244 0.00 { Kc9c }
Hand 1: 75.354% 75.35% 00.00% 746 0.00 { 4h4s }

Quote:
It would be ******ed to assume that after some of those beats right?
I'll go with "Yes" since you don't seem to have much understanding of probability. ie; if something is 40% or 30%, guess what? That means it happens 40% or 30% of the time. And yes, sometimes even a fair coin comes up Heads 8 or 9 times in a row.

Poker Beats, Brags, and Variance

Although playing when you think it's rigged is def way more ******ed than thinking it's rigged.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:14 PM   #712
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop View Post
This just in: You're supposed to lose 70/30s 30% of the time.
Exactly my point. 30% of the time not 100% of the time.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:17 PM   #713
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
LOL. Rigged or certain situations and for poor players in particular. So rigged against winning players like me who get it in with the best and lose every time with the best hand as shown in my previous post.
Very convenient that a rigged belief is based on selected hands in hindsight. Would you think a site is not rigged if the best hand when it got it in won every single time?

How exactly do the sites magically define poor players?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Because i am more likely to win due to the fact that I generally get my stack in with the best of it.
Do you win most of the time when you get your stack in ahead? Would a site be not rigged if you won every single time?

This is ignoring issues like pot odds where it may be correct for players who are behind to get it in.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Lol I have a 16% ROI in tournaments. So generally I WIN.
And I bet the people who make bad plays have bad ROIs. You realize this kind of proves that it is not rigged, rather those players are just bad.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Judging by this post I would you you are highly unlikely to be part of it, though I think there are posters who for some reason attack posts like this.
Ever consider that is exactly what I want you to believe?


Summary of your beliefs

Winning players win, losing players lose, when a losing player playing badly gets lucky and beats a winning player in a few hands, it proves the site is rigged.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:25 PM   #714
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Quote:
This just in: You're supposed to lose 70/30s 30% of the time.
Exactly my point. 30% of the time not 100% of the time.
No. Not in small samples. 30% means over the long run. Do you know that you only need to flip a coin 1000 times to have a very high chance of hitting a streak of 10 heads in a row? Many players play over 1000 hands every day. 10 bad beats in a row is not an aberration, and I seriously doubt the example given was consecutive hands, making it not even noteworthy at all.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:43 PM   #715
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Quote:
3. Me AQ Villain A 10. Flop A J 7 All in. Turn 10. Lol.

Board: Ad Jd Th
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.111% 40.10% 01.01% 397 10.00 { AcQd }
Hand 1: 58.889% 57.88% 01.01% 573 10.00 { AhTs }

You're not real good at math, are you?
Neither are you it seems.
All in on flop not the turn.

Hero 85.15%
Villain 11.21%

Quote:
Quote:
4. 9 6 vs Villain A Q. Flop 9 6 5. I bet 3/4 pot he calls. Turn 7.check,check. River 8.

You're surprised when fish call ragged flops with overcards?

How long have you been playing this game?
No whats surprising is the villain being rewarded for his lame flop call.
He has 3.33% of winning and 1.62% of a split. I note you left out the % on this hand.

Quote:
Quote:
7. 5h4h vs 5 limpers. Flop 3 hearts. I bet 4 callers. Turn another heart.

There are 8 hearts left. 17% chance a heart comes on the turn.
Highly unlikely that all 8 hearts are still in the deck with 5 players calling the flop bet noob.

Quote:
Quote:
8. Q 10 vs 73. Flop Q 6 4. Im short I bet 3/4 pot. Villain Allin shows 7 3 Im like wtfwtfwtf. Turn x River 5.

I has a gutshot!

Again, how long you been playing this game?
Hero 81.31%
Villain 19.69%(9% after he misses turn)

He has no need to shove here he had like 1500 chips to my 1100 and this is realtively early in the tourney.

Quote:
Quote:
10a) AQ vs AJ on the bubble both All in pre flop.Board K Q 8 6 10.

Hand 0: 73.477% 70.58% 02.90% 1208514 49644.00 { AcQd }
Hand 1: 26.523% 23.62% 02.90% 404502 49644.00 { AdJh }
After flop Hero 82.83%
Villain 15.45%


Quote:
Quote:
It would be ******ed to assume that after some of those beats right?

I'll go with "Yes" since you don't seem to have much understanding of probability. ie; if something is 40% or 30%, guess what? That means it happens 40% or 30% of the time. And yes, sometimes even a fair coin comes up Heads 8 or 9 times in a row.

Actually for the 9 bad beats which were all lost its like losing 24% hands 9 times in a row which is a little over 2% chance of happening. They are not 30-40% hands being lost 9 times in a row. I see your struggling with your maths again my friend.

Quote:
Although playing when you think it's rigged is def way more ******ed than thinking it's rigged.
I play quite low limit and I play for fun although I think its rigged Im having FUN.

Thats a very one sided post my friend that distorts the actual probability of this occuring.

Also the ridiculous AA vs A4 hand is missing so its lower than 24% 9 times in a row.

Last edited by SooperFish24; 02-03-2009 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:47 PM   #716
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
You really can't understand why people might question your conclusions based off of a sample of nine hands? Seriously?
LOL I dont have an absolute conclusion. I have stated throughout this thread that I could be wrong and hope that I am.

My opinion started way before these 9 hands. The 9 hands just serve as more support to my opinion.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:48 PM   #717
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

If you think micro limits are rigged because you see all sorts of bad play that gets rewarded once in a while, might I suggest you play for an hour at the play money tables. Those must be really rigged...
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:52 PM   #718
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
All in with best hand 9/11 times. Win 1/11. Rigged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
LOL I dont have an absolute conclusion. I have stated throughout this thread that I could be wrong and hope that I am.

My opinion started way before these 9 hands. The 9 hands just serve as more support to my opinion.
Umm... the very statement you are referencing was not phrased as an oppinion but as an assertion of fact.

To change it to an oppinion you'd need to phrase it something like "And this only further makes me believe it is rigged," or "This is why I continue to think it may be rigged." See the difference? Do you need further examples of times you've asserted your belief as factual instead of oppinion?
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:56 PM   #719
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Summary of your beliefs

Winning players win, losing players lose, when a losing player playing badly gets lucky and beats a winning player in a few hands, it proves the site is rigged.
No that is not my summary at all. I ll write my own summaries thankyou very much. That is not what I think at all.

Quote:
Do you win most of the time when you get your stack in ahead? Would a site be not rigged if you won every single time?
Of course Im not gonna win every time Im ahead in a showdown. Yes a site would be rigged if I won every single time I was ahead.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:57 PM   #720
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
If you think micro limits are rigged because you see all sorts of bad play that gets rewarded once in a while, might I suggest you play for an hour at the play money tables. Those must be really rigged...
Is that where you play? Im sorry I have no experience of the play money tables.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:02 PM   #721
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by AaronT View Post
Umm... the very statement you are referencing was not phrased as an oppinion but as an assertion of fact.

To change it to an oppinion you'd need to phrase it something like "And this only further makes me believe it is rigged," or "This is why I continue to think it may be rigged." See the difference? Do you need further examples of times you've asserted your belief as factual instead of oppinion?
Yeah it says Rigged. So what.

If it said 100% absolute certainty no doubt rigged I could see your point Aaron T.

Where s your friend qpw?

Yes could you give me more examples to refresh my memory.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:08 PM   #722
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
No. Not in small samples. 30% means over the long run. Do you know that you only need to flip a coin 1000 times to have a very high chance of hitting a streak of 10 heads in a row? Many players play over 1000 hands every day. 10 bad beats in a row is not an aberration, and I seriously doubt the example given was consecutive hands, making it not even noteworthy at all.
Yes but this is not coin tossing. I havent lost overcards vs underpair 9 times in a row i.e coinflip. If you throw a four sided dice 1000 times its very unlikely to land on the same side 10 times in a row.

Yes they did happen in that order.

Another poster with a poor grasp of probability.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:12 PM   #723
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

SooperFish,

It's pretty nonsensical that you're willing to write lots in posts here, but actually unwilling to do anything to verify your suspicions. This is even more absurd since you've already been given simple drafts that you can use yourself.

It seems to me that you're deliberately trolling and wasting everyone's time here.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:19 PM   #724
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Last night I played in my weekly league tournament (live). In 4.5 hours I was dealt about 125 hands. I had AA twice at 221:1 odds each time and I got pocket pairs at least 10 other times when I should have had only 7 total pairs all night at 17:1 odds. I estimate I saw the flop 35 times all night, and in those I flopped 2-pairs 3 times at 24:1 odds each time, or more than double the fair number. I hit a 2-outer on the turn twice, at 23:1 against me, and I probably didn't even see 23 turns all night. So that was way over normal odds. I also flopped a straight with a 2-gapper at 153:1 odds (recall that I only saw about 35 flops). So that wasn't supposed to happen either. I ran good, and I won 1st place which paid in four figures. The amazing part is that none of my opponents said anything about a rigged game. How could they not see how bad I was cheating?

.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:37 PM   #725
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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The amazing part is that none of my opponents said anything about a rigged game. How could they not see how bad I was cheating?
Good mechanic?
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