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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

08-18-2014 , 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars

No, I didn't. I said if one were an established player at a limit, which I further defined as having 40 buyins for the given stake, one would need a highly unlikely downswing before dropping 2 limits. 1 limit is possible, albeit very unfortunate. 2 is bad play, nothing else.
Fine your an established player at 30nl with 40BI ($1200). You lose 20 buyins, and then drop and lose 20BI of 20nl. How much money do you have left? And how many buyins have you dropped?

Your maths is right if buyin jumps are double, you aren't at that point are you? As for unlikely downswings you have no clue. You think 5-10 is all that is likely in poker. This makes you a fool. And why you'll be here saying 888 has been rigged against you for xxxx reason sometimes in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars

You guys always take things so literally, as if one example of me flopping 2 pair would disprove everything and prove Stars isn't rigged. Funny how your requests for large samples goes out of the window when it comes to your proof, isn't it? When it comes to proving something isn't rigged, 1 hand is enough for you shills. Yet you demand a couple of million hands of data with SD calculations before you'll entertain the idea that rigging might be taking place.
Again change my words why don't you. Did I ask for ONE hand? No, I said give me ALL your figures for your VPIP hands in that 15k and then the figures for how many times you made a pair or better on flop. You should know the odds of hitting a flop and you can see if you are being hard done by or if it was a figment of your mind. Again not that this sample of hands is large enough to be conclusive, it would be a start.

And as it would be a start, there is NO chance you'll do it because that would make your whole rant about not hitting any hand in 15k, and PS picking on you because you have a bronze star blah blah blah as nothing more than nonsense. And I don't think you care to prove yourself right, you just want everyone to think you are. Never going to happen.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
its funny how regulars on this topic evade from the hard questions and concentrate on flamming easy theories , why does bother so much the matter of software certification that don´t exist at any pokerrooom... they even awnser with costs , poor pokerstars...but they can buy and refund ft players , the true angels mark for dummies
I don't know what hard questions you mean, but when I look here I generally ignore your posts because your spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure make it difficult and/or annoying to understand what you are saying.

Also, things such as saying there should be "certification" without saying what "certification" means makes your posts even fairly pointless.

Last edited by Lego05; 08-18-2014 at 01:45 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 01:41 PM
like i said all act like ******s for no reason when the matter is theire own security , tell me lego montery etc what do u have to loose what are u guys really fighting for with all this efforts

Last edited by GreenZen; 08-18-2014 at 01:48 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
I agree - you are only winning for now at 888 because it is rigged in your favor. Every other riggie believes it is rigged there (even you did at one point), so they cannot all be wrong. Open your eyes and stop being so naive!

I made more last month than you will make in a year (even with your favorable rig), and if you want to know what time it is I can tell you from my watch!
Ah yes, that's more like the Monteroy we know.

I remember in a prior conversation you said I'd never make it past 10nl (on 888!) because of my so-called 'mental game leaks' and 'paranoid riggie whining' etc. Must really hurt one so egotistical as yourself to be proven wrong. Had a nice winning session on 30nl tonight and might be able to move to 50nl within the next couple of months.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntsman41
Fine your an established player at 30nl with 40BI ($1200). You lose 20 buyins, and then drop and lose 20BI of 20nl. How much money do you have left? And how many buyins have you dropped?

Your maths is right if buyin jumps are double, you aren't at that point are you? As for unlikely downswings you have no clue. You think 5-10 is all that is likely in poker. This makes you a fool. And why you'll be here saying 888 has been rigged against you for xxxx reason sometimes in the future.
And for everywhere other than that one specific jump, the buyins are double. On 888 for instance it goes: 2nl, 4nl, 10nl, 20nl, 30nl, 50nl, 100nl, 200nl, 400nl. On Stars it's 2nl, 5nl, 10nl, 25nl, 50nl, 100nl, 200nl, 400nl.

Needless to say, I wouldn't even get close to losing 20 buyins at 30nl before I dropped back down. Right now if I lost 8 buyins I'd drop back down, and grind another 5 buyin shot.

Quote:
Again change my words why don't you. Did I ask for ONE hand? No, I said give me ALL your figures for your VPIP hands in that 15k and then the figures for how many times you made a pair or better on flop. You should know the odds of hitting a flop and you can see if you are being hard done by or if it was a figment of your mind. Again not that this sample of hands is large enough to be conclusive, it would be a start.

And as it would be a start, there is NO chance you'll do it because that would make your whole rant about not hitting any hand in 15k, and PS picking on you because you have a bronze star blah blah blah as nothing more than nonsense. And I don't think you care to prove yourself right, you just want everyone to think you are. Never going to happen.
You sure implied that one example of me hitting a set or two pair would be 'evidence' that I 'do get dealt decent hands', which while correct in the literal interpretation, is clearly not what I meant when I was making my point - what I meant was I get dealt decent hands far less thanI statistically should.

The odds of hitting a pair or better on the flop is about 1/3. I'd say I get a pair or better about 1/20 times.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
its funny how regulars on this topic evade from the hard questions and concentrate on flamming easy theories , why does bother so much the matter of software certification that don´t exist at any pokerrooom... they even awnser with costs , poor pokerstars...but they can buy and refund ft players , the true angels mark for dummies
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
I don't know what hard questions you mean, but when I look here I generally ignore your posts because your spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure make it difficult and/or annoying to understand what you are saying.

Also, things such as saying there should be "certification" without saying what "certification" means makes your posts even fairly pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
like i said all act like ******s for no reason when the matter is theire own security , tell me lego montery etc what do u have to loose what are u guys really fighting for with all this efforts

I don't have anything to lose from poker sites improving their security. And I wasn't aware I was fighting for anything with all of this effort.



Also, add capitalization to my above post to go along with spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 01:53 PM
yeh u really like to debate the most important things dont u lego
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars
And for everywhere other than that one specific jump, the buyins are double. On 888 for instance it goes: 2nl, 4nl, 10nl, 20nl, 30nl, 50nl, 100nl, 200nl, 400nl. On Stars it's 2nl, 5nl, 10nl, 25nl, 50nl, 100nl, 200nl, 400nl.
Well, that is actually three jumps that are not double. 4NL to 10NL and 20NL to 30NL and 30NL to 50NL. Also, after 400NL is 600NL, which is not double. And after 600NL is 1,000NL which is not double. Also, on Stars at least (not sure about 888 as I've only ever played on 888's NJ site which doesn't go above 2,000NL), after 2,000NL is 5,000NL, which is not double. And, I believe, the same thing that happens at 400NL through 1000NL also happens at 40,000NL through 100,000NL.


Not that any of this matters.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
yeh u really like to debate the most important things dont u lego
I wasn't debating your capitalization, spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure. I was just saying those items are part of the reason that I usually ignore your posts and don't respond to them.

And you aren't debating anything either. Repeatedly stating that an undefined act must happen isn't too far apart from saying nothing.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
I wasn't debating your capitalization, spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure. I was just saying those items are part of the reason that I usually ignore your posts and don't respond to them.

And you aren't debating anything either. Repeatedly stating that an undefined act must happen isn't too far apart from saying nothing.


AND im the one who doesn´t make sense , this must be a comedy show...
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars
The odds of hitting a pair or better on the flop is about 1/3. I'd say I get a pair or better about 1/20 times.
I'd say you are either a liar or you just really haven't looked. If you see just 100 flops with unpaired cards, the chance that you only hit a pair 5% of the time or less is about 1 in 49 billion. With a few more hands played, it very quickly becomes virtually impossible to not have more.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
like i said all act like ******s for no reason when the matter is theire own security , tell me lego montery etc what do u have to loose what are u guys really fighting for with all this efforts
How exactly are you fighting for it? You have yet to say what you think more security even means.

What do the sites need to do to be more secure in your opinion? Be specific!


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars
Ah yes, that's more like the Monteroy we know.
No real point varying what I say when dealing with people who believe a rig favors chromestars, and I tend to keep things simple and repetitive as riggies (and infants as well) prefer that form of conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars
I remember in a prior conversation you said I'd never make it past 10nl (on 888!) because of my so-called 'mental game leaks' and 'paranoid riggie whining' etc. Must really hurt one so egotistical as yourself to be proven wrong. Had a nice winning session on 30nl tonight and might be able to move to 50nl within the next couple of months.
Well, that was before I did research to see how the rig works on 888, and now that I have done that and I see that many sources claim that a donk like you will benefit from a rig for a while - your results make more sense. That is the only logical explanation for how a guy who cannot beat 2 NL has your results so far.

I am happy that you are content making considerably below minimum wage with your results (even with the favorable rig), so it is win/win

Keep riding that new player/donk rig that even other riggies would say you have for now!

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
also u cant what ????looollll
So answer the question you ignored before, you poor moron.

Also: Looks like bullseye to me.

Last edited by Rig Astley; 08-18-2014 at 02:30 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
its funny how regulars on this topic evade from the hard questions and concentrate on flamming easy theories , why does bother so much the matter of software certification that don´t exist at any pokerrooom... they even awnser with costs , poor pokerstars...but they can buy and refund ft players , the true angels mark for dummies
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
I don't know what hard questions you mean, but when I look here I generally ignore your posts because your spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure make it difficult and/or annoying to understand what you are saying.

Also, things such as saying there should be "certification" without saying what "certification" means makes your posts even fairly pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
like i said all act like ******s for no reason when the matter is theire own security , tell me lego montery etc what do u have to loose what are u guys really fighting for with all this efforts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
I don't have anything to lose from poker sites improving their security. And I wasn't aware I was fighting for anything with all of this effort.



Also, add capitalization to my above post to go along with spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
yeh u really like to debate the most important things dont u lego
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
I wasn't debating your capitalization, spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure. I was just saying those items are part of the reason that I usually ignore your posts and don't respond to them.

And you aren't debating anything either. Repeatedly stating that an undefined act must happen isn't too far apart from saying nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
AND im the one who doesn´t make sense , this must be a comedy show...

I am not sure what you did not understand.


The undefined act that I referred to is the act of certifying a poker site or of giving a certification. I can not be more specific because you never expand on what you mean by:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
Software should be certified
Since you don't define what you want in a certification, we don't know what you are talking about even though you keep saying that there should be certifications. Presumably, by stating you want certification, you mean that you want some specific thing that you are calling certification and that is different from certifications that have already been given, but which you are not explaining.

Also, as implied above, at least some sites have a certification. So, as stated above, I suppose that when you say certification, you must mean something different than the certifications that have already been given. As an example (and the one that I am most aware of), here is a certification for PokerStars's random number generator and shuffling algorithm: http://www.psimg.com/pdf/cigital-rng-labresults.pdf
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 04:21 PM
just now see what happens at this final table to limit my gains , watch the joke it is to balance me its disgusting , i get out of 11 sngs with no min cash 80% of them with disgusting beats , at same time i run good at this tournament only
to reach this final table that is a completly absurd joke everyday the same ****


https://www.sendspace.com/file/y72u54
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 05:25 PM
Stop playing tournaments if you can't handle getting busted out, seems pretty obvious.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 05:46 PM
i cant play cash i get bored after 30 minutes but thats not the point
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 05:59 PM
Why do you play a game that you do not enjoy? Especially when you believe you are being cheated. Are you just addicted to gambling?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars

The odds of hitting a pair or better on the flop is about 1/3. I'd say I get a pair or better about 1/20 times.
LOL LOL LOL. If you had those numbers you would have proof of rigging that you could display proudly and show that internet poker was fixed. You don't. My guess is you just added a filter for how many times you made a pair or better but divided that by the number of hands you've played, but forgot that you don't actually play all the hands, but fold most of them.

Seriously, put up or shut up now. If you have those figures you have evidence that people would listen too, but sadly I know you don't. Not a chance that figure is right. I would not be surprised if you didn't even check it.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars

It's not paranoia if Pokerstars really are screwing you over though, is it?
If it was actually happening you would have posted proof instead of moaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars

You guys always take things so literally
Maybe capitalising words like 'never' for emphasis is bad idea when you actually mean 'not as often as I would like'

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars

You don't get it still. Pokerstars will NEVER let me flop anything good. So I have to bluff or I'd just be check folding all the time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by huntsman41
LOL LOL LOL. If you had those numbers you would have proof of rigging that you could display proudly and show that internet poker was fixed. You don't. My guess is you just added a filter for how many times you made a pair or better but divided that by the number of hands you've played, but forgot that you don't actually play all the hands, but fold most of them.
You're giving him far too much credit. He just pulled it out of his ass.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienSpaceBat
DonkeyStars - have you ever made a post on 2+2, on this account or one of your others, claiming that 888 is rigged ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyStars
Why would this matter anyway? Even if, hypothetically, I did believe 888 was rigged once, it wouldn't invalidate my claims about Pokerstars now.

Well, firstly, we are not talking hypotheticals here; it shows that your conclusions are not robust, and that your viewpoint changed by 180° in a short space of time.

Why did 888 abandon the obvious rig that they used to steal money from you so successfully before ?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
Why do you play a game that you do not enjoy? Especially when you believe you are being cheated. Are you just addicted to gambling?
Do i have to talk to babys now ?? i dont enjoy cash table format , i love mttsng and mtts k ?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 06:43 PM
Good that you play a game format you like. Shame that you do not understand how it works and get so upset with very routine situations within that game type, but that problem is yours. You seem aware of your mental flaws in the game, your choice to do anything about them.

You still have yet to say how you want the sites certified. Perhaps if they had some certificates from this site?

http://www.123certificates.com/

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenZen
i cant play cash i get bored after 30 minutes but thats not the point
Well then get used to losing a ****load of tournaments, and not always busting out when you have the worst hand. Do you realize why all the best tournament players play insane amounts of tournaments? It's not just because they tend to be stupidly good at playing tournaments, it's because they bust out of ****loads of tournaments and need to play more to get in their volume.

I can almost guarantee you every day of every SNG grinder has "worse" hands than yours, "worse" runs than yours, etc. etc., because guess what? That's how **** works.

For fun, let's look at jorj95.

Great graph, gigantic sample, just beautiful. Let's look at his last 8 buyins:


$224 in 6 minutes, not bad. But notice how he lost 5/8? And Lego05 posted his cash graph earlier, showing even though he he's won a decent amount over ~1.7 million hands, he only won 54.6% of the days he played. Even winning players still lose a bunch of hands, because that's how the game works. Learn to deal with that (learn to understand what variance and statistics actually mean), or don't (continue to be a rigtard). Your call.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-18-2014 , 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
Well, that is actually three jumps that are not double. 4NL to 10NL and 20NL to 30NL and 30NL to 50NL. Also, after 400NL is 600NL, which is not double. And after 600NL is 1,000NL which is not double. Also, on Stars at least (not sure about 888 as I've only ever played on 888's NJ site which doesn't go above 2,000NL), after 2,000NL is 5,000NL, which is not double. And, I believe, the same thing that happens at 400NL through 1000NL also happens at 40,000NL through 100,000NL.


Not that any of this matters.
It's an approximation. Frankly anyone that's too dumb to figure out when they can move up and down limits according to their bankroll is going to go bust playing poker sooner or later anyway - probably sooner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
I'd say you are either a liar or you just really haven't looked. If you see just 100 flops with unpaired cards, the chance that you only hit a pair 5% of the time or less is about 1 in 49 billion. With a few more hands played, it very quickly becomes virtually impossible to not have more.
Again, it's an approximation, though I'm pretty sure the 5% figure is accurate on Stars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Well, that was before I did research to see how the rig works on 888, and now that I have done that and I see that many sources claim that a donk like you will benefit from a rig for a while - your results make more sense. That is the only logical explanation for how a guy who cannot beat 2 NL has your results so far.

I am happy that you are content making considerably below minimum wage with your results (even with the favorable rig), so it is win/win

Keep riding that new player/donk rig that even other riggies would say you have for now!
No wonder you're still single. Keep sitting in your mothers basement with these delusions of granduer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienSpaceBat
Well, firstly, we are not talking hypotheticals here; it shows that your conclusions are not robust, and that your viewpoint changed by 180° in a short space of time.

Why did 888 abandon the obvious rig that they used to steal money from you so successfully before ?
Because there never was a rig on 888 of course. I thought there could have been, but there wasn't. Everyone makes mistakes. Doesn't mean I'm wrong about this Pokerstars rig though which is way more blatant than anything I saw over on 888.

Last edited by DonkeyStars; 08-18-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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