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Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9859. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-27-2009, 05:29 AM   #7126
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Yes.

Have sent you PM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:51 AM   #7127
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

What about those hacks they have had out in the past for online poker. that would predict the cards that were going to come out to a sickening degree. Do those hacks still exist? I do not wish to use them but if there are hacks then something is wrong with the software, it may not favor people but if people can create software that can predict cards then something is wrong with their "randomization".
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Old 07-28-2009, 11:53 AM   #7128
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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What about those hacks they have had out in the past for online poker. that would predict the cards that were going to come out to a sickening degree. Do those hacks still exist? I do not wish to use them but if there are hacks then something is wrong with the software, it may not favor people but if people can create software that can predict cards then something is wrong with their "randomization".
That was 10 years ago, in one poker application using a pseudo-RNG.
http://www.cigital.com/papers/downlo...r_gambling.php

http://www.cigital.com/news/index.php?pg=art&artid=20

and it was never publicly exploited.

Most poker sites (all the big ones) use unbreakable hardware tRNGs now.

Last edited by spadebidder; 07-28-2009 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 07-28-2009, 12:01 PM   #7129
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Yes.

Have sent you PM.
Well? don't keep us in suspense! What were the results?
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:26 PM   #7130
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I'm not sure if it's rigged or not I think it is a possibility though that people making donkey moves are more likely to hit their out then they are in a live game.

That way the donkey will continue to play, good players still can win some money and the poker site ends up making more money from more players.

Just a theory, who knows for sure.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:31 PM   #7131
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

how many times in one day can you lose with kk to j10 with a j turn and j river. seriously its a joke.

get quad 8's, quad queens, straight flush, royal flush all in one day.

in less than a 100 hands.

if only the lottery was that easy except you have better odds.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:41 PM   #7132
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by K13 View Post
how many times in one day can you lose with kk to j10 with a j turn and j river. seriously its a joke.

get quad 8's, quad queens, straight flush, royal flush all in one day.

in less than a 100 hands.

if only the lottery was that easy except you have better odds.
you don't take direction well, do ya?

also, why are you STILL playing online poker?
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:50 PM   #7133
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by K13 View Post
how many times in one day can you lose with kk to j10 with a j turn and j river. seriously its a joke.

get quad 8's, quad queens, straight flush, royal flush all in one day.

in less than a 100 hands.

if only the lottery was that easy except you have better odds.

Well this should be easy then, please post the <100 hands. Or was this purely a theoretical question? I'm sure someone could do the calculations.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:48 PM   #7134
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by K13 View Post
how many times in one day can you lose with kk to j10 with a j turn and j river. seriously its a joke.

get quad 8's, quad queens, straight flush, royal flush all in one day.

in less than a 100 hands.

if only the lottery was that easy except you have better odds.
ban, seriously
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:56 PM   #7135
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by K13 View Post
how many times in one day can you lose with kk to j10 with a j turn and j river. seriously its a joke.

get quad 8's, quad queens, straight flush, royal flush all in one day.

in less than a 100 hands.

if only the lottery was that easy except you have better odds.
Hi K13,

I see you still haven't confessed that you false claims about the frequency of aces coming on the flop were, in fact, false.

Why is that?
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:41 AM   #7136
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by jack4you View Post
I'm not sure if it's rigged or not I think it is a possibility though that people making donkey moves are more likely to hit their out then they are in a live game.

That way the donkey will continue to play, good players still can win some money and the poker site ends up making more money from more players.

Just a theory, who knows for sure.
Make bad plays for a few thousand hands and report back with results. If I had a winning system like this I'd keep it to myself though, to be honest.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:13 AM   #7137
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Make bad plays for a few thousand hands and report back with results. If I had a winning system like this I'd keep it to myself though, to be honest.
You don't get it. Bad plays (and players) eventually lose, +EV plays (and players) eventually win. But this says nothing as to whether someone wins or loses what they *should*. Can it be proven one way or another? No. So there's no sense dwelling on it. Online can still be very profitable. The bottom line is if you're making what you deem your time to be worth, then that's good enough. If you're not, it doesn't do any good to gripe about being cheated. Just quit playing online. Simple.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:21 AM   #7138
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PeaceFr0g View Post
Can it be proven one way or another? No.
Except it can? Please explain why you say "No".
So there's no sense dwelling on it.So there's no sense dwelling on it. Online can still be very profitable. The bottom line is if you're making what you deem your time to be worth, then that's good enough.[/QUOTE]
Um, no it's not good enough. If I buy a product from some guy for $75, then agree to sell it to another guy for $150 but he only gives me $100 and then runs away, then I'm going to be pretty pissed.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:08 AM   #7139
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Except it can? Please explain why you say "No".
I've had this discussion earlier in this thread. In summary: It is entirely possible for a hand to realize its statistical appropriate winning %, while still being robbed of dollar equity. Unless you're privy to hole cards that are folded on or before the river, there is no way to ascertain whether or not your overall dollar equity holds true. But someone responded to me by saying that sites were going to make this data available for review. I'm not aware if it was done yet. But until it is, I maintain that a poker site has the means of stealing very minute portions of equity from hands that are a favorite and distributing it other hands in order to keep losing players in action longer. This would be virtually undetectable.

Quote:
Um, no it's not good enough. If I buy a product from some guy for $75, then agree to sell it to another guy for $150 but he only gives me $100 and then runs away, then I'm going to be pretty pissed.
You might be pissed, but if you're making enough money, you put up with it. Ever hear the term, "cost of doing business"?
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:25 AM   #7140
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PeaceFr0g View Post
I've had this discussion earlier in this thread. In summary: It is entirely possible for a hand to realize its statistical appropriate winning %, while still being robbed of dollar equity. Unless you're privy to hole cards that are folded on or before the river, there is no way to ascertain whether or not your overall dollar equity holds true. But someone responded to me by saying that sites were going to make this data available for review. I'm not aware if it was done yet. But until it is, I maintain that a poker site has the means of stealing very minute portions of equity from hands that are a favorite and distributing it other hands in order to keep losing players in action longer. This would be virtually undetectable.
Just play with a specific group of people, and agree to share all hole cards with each other afterward.
Quote:
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You might be pissed, but if you're making enough money, you put up with it. Ever hear the term, "cost of doing business"?
If this were the case, then I would be playing at UB/AP.
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Old 07-29-2009, 03:58 AM   #7141
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Just play with a specific group of people, and agree to share all hole cards with each other afterward.
I've thought of this and would actually love to do it. Ideally, I'd want someone to play like a total spewtard. Again, my hypothesis is that he/she would still get killed in the long run, but over many occurrences of say, flush draws, they would hit just slightly more than their fair share in significant pots and/or v. the better players. This would keep them playing a little longer than they'd have a right to.

Yes, I would really love to do this. But I don't think it would be legal with any of the sites. Obviously, no one is going to volunteer to be the spewtard and purposely lose their money and it can't be agreed upon beforehand that we split whatever money is leftover after the rake (actually, there wouldn't be any money left over, b/c of the huge sample size needed. Everyone would be a loser in this little test). But you're right. This would be the way to prove the "Great poker is rigged debate" once and for all.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:00 AM   #7142
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Do it with play money?
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:24 AM   #7143
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Do it with play money?
then when that fails the rigtards will claim the RNG is different for real money.... it's always something
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:29 AM   #7144
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I would like to back up PeaceFr0g. Even as a guy who had to write countless bad beat emails and attach hand histories and show the math about how PokerStars wasn't rigged against the emailer, I can think of multiple ways that it could be biased in such a slight manner that would give a player a small but significant edge that would be very difficult to track.

It's obviously possible, though I highly doubt it is happening given the advantage of doing so and the veil of secrecy that would need to be maintained. The potential PR disaster would be a nightmare for a large site like PokerStars.
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Old 07-29-2009, 04:38 AM   #7145
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Yeah I think most of us agree that subtle rigging, like just about anything, is possible. Just highly unlikely though and kind of silly to worry about if unwilling to actually try to examine a lot of data in detail.
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:22 AM   #7146
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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then when that fails the rigtards will claim the RNG is different for real money.... it's always something
I'm guessing you just like reading yourself type and can't be serious. Ya really think there's a difference between real money and play money? Little thing in it for the sites called rake, maybe?
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:25 AM   #7147
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

sigh
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Old 07-29-2009, 05:55 AM   #7148
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Is this thread for real? lol

Look everyone:

The game is not "rigged" it just so happens that bad players lose more than good players so if you think it is "rigged" it is probably because you just suck at poker lol

So....Just practice and get better instead of complaining about something that does not exist and won't help you get better
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:49 AM   #7149
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

um...i just read the OP. how the **** did this thread make 7000 replies???
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:01 AM   #7150
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Is it true that FTP uses a Real (hardware) RNG and Stars uses a Pseudo RNG?
Just curious since I've heard this claimed a number of times in different venues.
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