A couple other related factors making online much tougher than live:

7: the multiplier effect. Good and great players at any given limit online play up to 40 tables at a time (full ring; less at 6max and even fewer at hu). So live each bad player is multiplied by one and the same for each good player. Online the multiplier is maybe two for bad players and an average of at least 6 or 7 for very good (or better) players. This dramatically increases the proportion of good players to weak players at any given table compared to live.

8. Bumhunting. Any poor to extremely poor player is going to be noted by good players and when this person sits, all available seats at the table will quickly be filled by regs looking to part them from their money. This happens to a degree live as well, but a much lesser degree due to the lack of PT/HEM, HUDs, PTR, sharkscope, and the like for live play.

Because your live games are actually randomly shuffled?

I have had 19 all ins vs suited hands, most of them dominated on Pokerstars the last 24 hours. ex ak vs ace X suited or a pair qq vs two suited cards. the suited cards have flopped a flush draw, all in pre flop 14/19 times. This is a rigged poker game.

so Hud's do give an advantage? Tell that to the HUD thread where employers of the site act like it doesn't although we know that is because of profits made directly from them

You forgot players do not trust online, a majority of them. I had the potential to leave thousands on Pokerstars, drive games that are dead and make a ton of rakes but I am redicilously coolered, and bad beat after I cash out 3 times in two months. The last two days I have lost count the number of all in pre flop that I have lost with an over pair or two ace x ) 3 outs) so that is why I personally take money off the site at first opportunity. It is truely scary. I guess I am suppose to tilt, put all the money I cashed out back on and chase. I am too expereinced in these " random" occurances that happen so lessoned learned. I share these , recorded on my phone and share them with other players for a good laugh at casinos, at work. You think knowing am am good players are not worried what I show them, **** yes

Can we ban futballer? His trolling is disruptive even in a thread designed to contain idiocy.

Pretty please?

Too bad there's no way to actually prove claims like this, eh?

Please post these intriguing phone videos.

we? he is posting his opinion.not grammar and spelling lessons.who is disruptive?can we ban you!

He's posting the same opinion over and over again and making like five posts in a row without anyone responding.

Also, I think I may have finally seen the light! I have my own rigged theory.

If you look through this thread, you will find a disturbing pattern. The posters who think poker is rigged are generally incapable of writing a post that uses anything even approaching proper spelling and grammar. Conversely, the posters who think that poker is not rigged generally write in full, grammatically correct sentences.

Therefore, poker must be rigged against people who are incapable of using proper grammar.

Don't forget how rigged quote buttons are.

i'm building a bankroll with sng's so I don't know, but is this really possible and how many buy-ins 4-tabling would be a decent bankroll? should your bankroll be larger than a standard 20 buy-ins when multi-tabling and more than the standard 20-50 buy-ins for sng's?

also, why do you suppose there aren't many live 200nl pro's?

Because at 30 hands per hour, and 10 big blinds/100, that comes out to $6 an hour.

Because working at McD's yields you more hourly for the same amount of abuse.

assuming our win rate is normal what + - e.v. would be cause for concern.

Depends on the number of hands, diffcode. Standard Deviation grows with the square root of the sample size, so if a rig lets you run at 2 SD below the mean for 10k hands, the same rig will be at 4 SD deviation for 40k hands. That's why there is no such thing as an undetectable rig.

Most important: If a rig is huge enough that you actually observe it by looking at your monitor and detect it from your memory then it is certainly also huge enough to show a deviation that could not be explained by variance. Think about that.

Say for example, you watch somebody flipping a coin 1000 times without counting along. When the guy finishes, he asks you if the coin is fair in your opinion. You look back and try to estimate how often heads came, and I would bet that even if head came 550 times, you couldn't be sure it wasn't fair, because the human brain badly sucks in assessing frequencies in hindsight. Even 600 heads would be hard to detect that way if you are honest, right?

Poker Tracker and Hold'em manager both calculate your standard deviation in bb/100, at least for cash games. If you take a single random, unbiased sample, and choosing an alpha value of 1%, then anything more than 2.33 standard deviations below your true bb/100 (in non-rigged situations; eg. other non-rigged sites with identical competition, or same site during non-rigged times, etc.) would be "cause for concern" (although it would still happen for 1% of said samples).

Edit: 3.09 deviations would be 1 out of 1,000. 3.72 deviations would be 1 out of 10,000. So choose how "concerned" you want to be.

Why not. This is the reason they allow HUD's and say they give no advantage, because the human mind remembers everything that a computer can.

I do not see a possiblity that Full Titl, Pokerstars and other sites do not have the ability to control the RNG as if it is possiblity and it is just a matter of "morality", we have seen the morality on and before Black Friday. People within these companies are more than capable of potentially doing shady things for what they deem the "right reasons" even if it is at the expense unkowingly to players.


English is my third language so if you don't like it don't read it.

I know you re a troll doing a slightly above average (for this thread) troll routine, but the irony is that many riggies foundation beliefs are that one should believe one's eyes more than what a database might say, and many post claims that indicate they have more faith in their memory than a computer database as well, so what you are being sarcastic about, many riggies actually genuinely believe.

Also, a HUD obviously offers a player more information and an advantage over those who do not use one, and I doubt many would dispute that, but anyone can use this software, and the data being utilized needs to be collected by the player through play (the sites ban many sites that create large pooled databases of hands - Pokeredge for instance comes to mind from a while ago).

The tradeoff of providing hand histories to players (which all except perhaps crazy riggies would agree is ideal) is that players can use programs that analyze that data, and the only way for sites to really prohibit that would start encroaching into some serious privacy issues.

Anyway, I realize you are not really capable of a serious discussion while in troll character, and I am not attempting to have a real discussion with you, however I may as well toss out some actual real information that most riggies will ignore. I now permit you to go back to trolling, though try to find a way to make it a bit more entertaining while doing it in future.

All the best.

What is funny is I am no more of a troll than you and the others here who fight with riggies. You are an industry troll.

Noone disputes that they could, why do you keep disputing that? Stop suggesting things that are clearly false. Noone says it is not rigged, noone says sites wouldn't have the possibility to do so, got that? Lying and misquoting people, is that all you can?

I said a rig would be detectable, especially when guys like you - who obviously aren't capable of keeping track what other people tell them and what not - claim to be able to recognize it. If you have any arguments against, go ahead. If not, ignore and keep babbling nonsense.

Monteroy is an informative troll.

you are an angry troll

Who has said that a HUD gives no advantage ?

That isn't a strawman that you just made up is it ?

When I pay attention to my opponents' plays and remember what they did at other times, it gives me an advantage over players who don't pay attention. If only there were an aid to help me remember them more easily...

Maybe. At least I have arguments, and don't need to ignore most of what other people say because I don't have a response.

You are so easily predictable that it is funny. I say you'll ignore and keep babbling, you ignore and keep babbling. Well done.

i don't believe online poker is rigged (as i stated before) but today i wondered how it comes that when you run hot you win way more than you should and when you run bad you lose way more than you should, rather than after a big session (1k+ hands) are near.

what i mean is that every time i have a downswing i feel i just lose like every hand and when i have an upswing im invincible, not in between (like 5k hands downswing, with checkpoints every 1k hands then 5k hands upswing, with every 1k hand a check). feels more like you have equal rungood/runbad just have to win more/lose less when each one occurs vs your opponents

is this memory bias too? as i don't think it's rigged but i found it pretty weird observation nonetheless

There are lots of different biases resulting in selective memory, you might talk about conformation bias, not really sure if I understood you correctly though. So if you think you run good, you will strongly recognize hands you won, and vice versa.

That is also a reason why riggies honestly think a rig is obvious, but can't really find evidence in objective data.

List of cognitive biases

I hope you found my post informative.

yeah, i meant that for example if you run bad and you have a flip, it feels like you lose 10/10 times, while if you run good you win 10/10 times so i guess its memory bias

(or if you 3-bet AK you miss every time, and sometimes if you 3-bet AK you flop top pair every time)