You call him dumb, an idiot, a liar, ask if he is on drugs and a blind monkey in dozens of posts but you expect him to apologize to you for not searching for a post where he claims you said he couldn't beat 5nl? You and the other narcissist must be twins separated at birth. No mother could love both of you. Gfys.

Excellent post.

Unsurprisingly poor reply.

Been meaning to touch on this

Not to insult you, but I see these kinds of calls every day and always scratch my head wondering what the fish was calling for. You are the fish in this circumstance. I mean K5o? Really? What were you hoping for? Were you going to set up some kind of bluff on the turn or something? Were you actually hoping to hit runner runner flush? Yeah it was a small price to pay, but whats the point in donating 1BB with no chance to win? I mean the board is paired. If you call him down and suddenly go ape **** with a big raise, wtf is he supposed to put YOU on? How are you ever going to get paid here? He's of course going to assume you have at least trip aces, since thats basically what you're representing. I mean, there's really just no defense for calling with K5o. The hand just wont ever turn into anything. And even when it does, nobody will ever be able to call you. They'd have to be paying off with a queen high flush, and how often does that ever happen when someone puts in a big raise? There's just nothing your opponent will ever call with that you can beat. It doesnt matter if he misses his fullhouse, even trip aces are likely to fold here.

You have to remember what YOUR hand looks like to your opponent. You cant just chase any ole draw and then expect to get paid when it hits.

The plan was to try and hit the runner runner flush draw and stack the fish since I was getting some sick implied odds because he was deep stacked and only bet small. Since the A was on the board my K was the effective nut flush so I reckoned I could nail him if he had a spade in his hand (and depending on how much of a fish he is, maybe he can't fold trip aces either).

And having made my hand on the river he did exactly what I wanted him to but 888poker had set a trap for me. Literally on any non-spade I'd have folded, and on any spade that didn't make a full house, I win. 888poker basically took one of the 3 or 4 cards in the deck that would make me lose and hit me with it.

You should write a book, something like : "Ramblings of a spewtard".

I don't know why I'm bothering; I had decided to stop replying to most of your silliness because you're either exceptionally deluded with a very slim chance of ever learning anything, or some kind of strange levelling troll account, which would be rather sad in this thread.

But I can't help myself this time.

The one getting huge implied odds is your opponent, as you've shown you'll call whatever he bets, as you put him on a range not with any logic, but based on whatever criteria allows you to justify making the call. The biggest problem isn't the big blind you threw away playing the hand, but that it opened the door to you losing a lot more money with little chance of you making any.

But rereading your first paragraph where you talk about a plan to hit runner runner, I'm thinking this has to be a level. Well, maybe not that it has to be, but if it isn't, um, wow. And if it is, gosh, good job leveling everyone in a thread that is filled with people making ridiculous arguments all the time - sure must have been a challenge.

You're wasting time that would be more valuably spent watching cats do crazy things on YouTube, he's either trolling or in capable of listening.

He can't see that he allowed a small mistake in the hand to become a costly one. Everyone makes mistakes but he let a one bb error become a stacks error.
Still a mistake I make calling to loose out the BB in HUSNG but rather than blame the magical rig, I'm trying to recognise it and minimalise it.

But he's a winner, so he doesn't need to learn.

You have a point, Sir, I admit. That wasn't the point of my request though.

What I wanted isn't really an apology. I want him to see that his memory and interpretation of reality isn't flawless. I told him like ten times that there are many much more likely reasons why he thinks there is a rig, cognitive biases, selective memory and so on. He completely ignored the possibility that he might not have a 100% correct perception of events. He comes up with the "I know a rig when I see it" line, no matter what the facts say. Who's the narcissist again?

He insists I said things I didn't in two cases, but he thinks he can correctly judge the quota of runner runner flushes etc. over 25k hands from memory.

In both cases, it's his prejudice that makes him think these things.

Bodishoma, I agree with you regarding a number of things you've written, namely mdma and Voltaire, but I wonder whether you're not venturing away from your purpose with some of the jousting you're doing with other posters. Monty is never going to open his eyes to any of what you claim to want him to see, particularly now that your dialogue with him is more put downs and nastiness than enlightening comments. J9suited made a fairly innocuous remark regarding Monty in comparison to most people on this board and you took it as good reason to attack J9 and that discussion has only devolved from there.

I am not sure how much of this thread you have read, but Monty's persona changes depending upon how he sees the person he's speaking to. He can be quite civil and offer excellent advice when he sees fit, but is caustic or simply purposefully demeaning to others. He obviously doesn't take you seriously and this is quite possibly your biggest beef with him, but nothing you say at this point is likely to change that, so you're not opening his or anyone else's eyes in your argument with him, just satisfying a need to get back at him, I suspect.

I agree with you that eyes need to be opened in this world, but I truly wonder whether this thread is closer to the bottom of places to try to do this than the top. You might ask yourself, and really think before replying, what your actual motivation is in this thread and in particular in your ongoing battles with Monty and J9.

lolpotodds, HU4rollz?

What's wrong with calling 1bb trying to hit a runner runner flush? I stood to get paid off hugely if it hit and he had a spade.

Sure calling meant I lost more, but somewhere in every big pot that is lost you could say 'if you folded there you wouldn't have lost so much'. If only you folded the king high flush draw on the turn because villain had the ace high flush draw and when it hit on the river stacks went in, etc etc.

.

Calling down a super passive fish with runner-runner outs on a paired board is totally standard, as is calling a 10x potsize river shove from super passive fish on a paired running-4flush board, especially with 2 aces on the board as {Ax, 22, 66, JJ} only makes about 25% of a 65% vpip range. Nothing to worry about, the shills are just trying to irritate you.

You even had 3 kings and 3 fives as outs, not to mention running kings or fives for a full boat.

LOL otatop if you're so ****ing good why are you grinding $10 tournaments instead of playing 5000nl on Stars? I only have to grind $9 more at this stupid 4nl bull**** and I can move to 10nl where the rig will be less, and from there it'll be a quick jump to 25nl, 50nl and the real money. Will be great to destroy you 2+2 trashtalkers on a full time basis.

Wow, your game doesn't need to get improved, but you still have to ask such a basic question? You can't figure it out yourself?

1. A runner runner flush doesn't happen often, you are 4.2% to hit it, significantly less if your opponent has a spade as you hope. That means you have to win way more than 25bb on average if you hit your hand to justify that call. Sorry if I mention that maths BS again, but it is how it is. That alone is hardly profitable against even the worst opponents.

And that is if your hand is suited, and there is one spade on the board. As it was, it's even worse, because:

2. You draw to a four-flush, so you don't have the advantage to make a concealed hand on the river, which would make your opponent more likely to give you action with a worse hand. Even a drooler realizes that you often have a flush on that board.
That's why villain overbets btw, he hopes you cannot fold a flush, and rarely gets action from non-flushes on that board anyway. Since the push is that massive compared to the pot size, you don't need to call often to make that the best play. More maths BS, sorry.

3. Not only that, you also draw to a flush on a paired board. That means you have to consider negative implied odds, and as the hand played out, you learnt how huge they can be if you cannot find a fold. That means, even against an opponent that is likely to pay you off, the 25bb figure in (1.) is too small, because it assumes you win the hand 100% of the time if you hit your flush, which you (obviously) don't. More math BS, I know.

Your nutflush is a bluff catcher on that board. Please show a hand from your database where a loose-passive villain ever pushs ten pots with a non-nutflush on a paired four-flush board for value. It just never happens.

But surely you know better, I mean, your game doesn't need any work, amirite?

Aren't you surprised how fundamentally sound someone has to play to be profitable at $10 tournaments, especially compared to you? He is levels above you, but you still think you know how to play. You clearly have nothing that contradicts his arguments, so you insult him, but HE is trashtalking? lol.

You are lightyears away from being profitable at his stakes. Because of the rig, sure.

Voltaire

What's really weird is that wasn't even a $10 buyin tournament that I posted a hand from, the 2+2 converter changed the buyin for some reason.

Unlike you, I've never claimed to be "so ****ing good". I'm just capable of understanding what to focus on in poker (fixing my own leaks, things like that), instead of dumb **** that distracts people like coming up with an insane theory that new players win (even when your own graph shows that didn't happen) and that rigging is only really happening at the smallest of stakes. What happened to those 700 unrigged hands you played at 25NL and shipped $50 in?

Seems weird you're grinding rigged games instead of continuing to crush for 30 bb/100 in unrigged games.

This here should be a meme. Anyone good with image macros?

It might be veering away from my previous commentary but it hasn't diverged from where I want to be.

That's OK. Heck, that's expected.

That's OK too.

If I buy a gift for someone and give it to them, but they do not take it, who owns that gift? I do.

If Monte brings his anger and attempts to hand it to me and I refuse, who owns that anger? Monte, of course.

My actions do not depend on Monte. That's sort of the core reason why he has taken the line he has.

J9 seems like a nice person, I was probably harsher than necessary.

When the riggie kept posting the same thing, barely worded any different, week after week, I thought my even lower noise-to-signal ratio would illustrate their attempt to simply string along the shills which, I'm sad to say, was working. I was only trying to help the shills by pointing out the trolling by making something only slightly more absurd. And failed.

J9 wasn't the only person to express a lack of appreciation. Live and learn. =)

Monte takes me quite seriously.

I know this because Monte wouldn't have announced he was putting me on mute (he didn't put me on mute) then wait for someone to quote a post of mine so he could continue to attempt to engage. When you put someone on ignore because you actually don't want to be bothered with what they have to say, you don't take your time to read what they say much less reply.

"Playing face-up," as we like to say.

I have Monte's number and that number is the fact that he doesn't have mine. What choice does he have but to dig a deeper hole with his "yawn" narrative while taking potshots?

Revenge? Lord, no.

My entire exercise with Monte is to simply stand in front of him, point out his bullying tactics and watch him spaz out and back down which, predictably, he has. Heck, I'm not even challenging him to stop, I'm just saying what he is out loud and even that sliver of sunlight has him tucking tail.

To make our exchange more complex is seeing things that aren't there. If I had the opportunity to do Monte harm with absolutely zero chance of being caught, I'd decline. This is people talking on an internet forum. Things have to get worse by several orders-of-magnitude for this to enter revenge land.

I do appreciate your reply. It was pointed but considered. Maybe it'll rub off.

Ouch. Color me embarrassed.

To make a real job of it, how about an anthology of LPO quotations?




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tbc

This one could easily have meme-legs. Hmmmmm.

Flop: (2.5 BB, 2 players) A 2 A
Turn: (4.5 BB, 2 players) 6
River: (13.5 BB, 2 players) J
Hero calls 105.25 BB

Gold.

Oh, it only cost you 1 BB? That's odd, I could've sworn there was a turn in there where you paid a lot more than that. Silly me.

Right, I know you've reached the conclusion that the superfish you were outplaying so badly would call your massive river bet, every time. Ever consider that might not happen as often as you think? And did you factor in those times when superfish doesn't have a spade?

You're using all the best case scenarios you can to justify making calls, and it's a huge leak. "Well, I'll call here because IF I hit a spade and IF he doesn't bet much on the turn and IF I hit another spade on the river and IF superfish has a spade and IF he calls my huge river bet then look at those implied odds!!1111!!!!1!1!"