No fair potoddsdonk, you reply to the others but as I predicted you did not reply to my points. That's no fun, and you still have 1-2 days left of amusement value before your clueless donk thing (and I do not believe you are trolling) becomes stale, so let's try again!


What will you be spending your newly gained 50 cents on? You had 6 outs without needing to do a runner runner, so technically it was not a runner runner draw, so your quest for "runner runner justice" may be delayed.

If the result was the reverse then you would post the hand as proof of the rig, stating that the other player is a donk that needs to be protected. Given that, what would you say to the person who lost in this hand, if he posted it and then said this was proof it was rigged because you were the donk that needs protection? You must agree with this since the rig is why you won, correct? Don't worry, I know you will not answer this directly.

Also, why are you still playing a level you think is rigged instead of 100NL on a new site where you will win a ton with the new player boomswitch vs all regs? I told you a detailed plan where you can make thousands if your beliefs are true yet you are still getting excited about winning pocket change once in a while. How come? Don't worry, I know you will not answer this directly.

All the best.

P.S. Your belief that players you have no hands on must be new donks has a fundimental flaw - all of those players also have no hands on you - so does that also make you a new player donk? Don't worry, I know you will not answer this directly.

Dude I'll go buy a poker set myself, take a few photos, and tell you I just shipped a live tournament for $10k, how about that? Ez game.

You'd just say my data didn't have enough hands in it but no amount of hands would satisfy those who are so closed minded they can't see the rig that is been waved around in their faces by Jokerstars/Full Rigged Poker/888poker.

Then if I came back with a million hands you'd say how that doesn't work either because I'm selecting the sample size after it was made, or whatever voodoo maths bull**** you lot come up with next.

I'm really not interested in the maths behind it all anyway since I can tell it's rigged without 'testing' it. It's bloody obvious. Go load up a few tables of 4nl on 888poker, play for a few hours and you'll see what I mean.

Not really, no. I think the worst that's been posted was something like 10 buyins over 70k+ hands.

I already replied to you, donk:

I'd say to the other player that every now and then 888poker has to let the better players win so their rig isn't obvious. In this case 888poker let me win for once since they've been screwing me for weeks.

The thing is, I know I'm not a new player donk, since I know how long I've been registered at the site. I make an educated guess that those I have no hands on+ play badly are new players, since if they weren't new I'd probably have seen them before and/or they'd play better. I'd say it has accuracy of about 80% for identifying new players, which is good enough for me.

No amount of hands or differences from EV will convince those who do not want to believe in a rig that there is one.

Just the same as most people stubbornly believed the Earth was flat and the centre of the universe for ages and no amount of evidence would convince them otherwise.

I ask you again. What evidence would you believe?

What, exactly, do you have to lose by trying?

So if another player with no hands comes on here and posts a hand they beat you on (for instance the opponent that beat you on that K5o hand you played really badly), and they say that the only reason they won is because sometimes the rig has to let the better players win - they would then be correct?

Basically, is every single hand you win because the rig lets you win and every single hand you lose is because the rig makes you lose? That seems to be your belief, but what about if you play another player who also has that belief? How can both of you be right? Will you just chop every hand? Will time and space collapse?


What if some of the players you have no hands on say the same thing? Does that mean they are lying just because you have no hands on them? If you have no hands on them then they have no hands on you, so as far as they are concerned you are a new player donk.

That's how it works, right?



Your K5o hand was played as badly as possible, so if your opponents make an educated guess that you are a new player / bad player / donk then why would they be wrong in that assumption?


Here is a story for you. Two people see each other in the bathroom a few times on the same day. The first one asks "why are you always in the bathroom?" suggesting something is wrong with the other person. The second person replies "I was just about to ask you the same thing."

That's the problem with your rig, it only works if the world is seen through you as the first person to the story, but that is not quite how the world actually works.

You do stink badly at poker, and as much as I jokingly suggest you move up to make money it is obvious that you know you would be utterly destroyed, and your best option is to stick at the baby stakes and celebrate every time you win 50 cents or so, and whine whenever you lose a buck as if the world is coming to an end. That's basically your place in the poker ecosystem.

All the best.

No words nor maths and stats will convince those who want to believe in a rig that there is none.

Just the same as most people stubbornly believed the Earth was flat and the centre of the universe for ages and no amount of evidence would convince them otherwise.

I can show 30 buyins over 300 or so hypers that i'm in the midst of right now, but unfortunately, I'm on the wrong side to get excited about that...

The difference is that I'm the better player than them. So when they win it's mostly because of new player donk suckouts, but when I win I mostly got it in good and the rig has to let me win a bit of the time in the hope I don't get suspicious. If it was all fair I'd beat them a hell of a lot more than they beat me.

I never said it was a 100% method, but most times if I don't have hands of someone and they play crap, they're a new player. It wouldn't be logical for a new player who has just signed up to conclude that because he has no hands on me that I;m a new player - because the reason he doesn't have hands on me is because he just frickin signed up to the site whereas I've been there a few months.

Well I've taken down you 2+2 **** talkers for 3 buyins at 25nl so I clearly don't suck that badly. You guys aren't some poker geniuses, at 25nl I saw plenty of you playing crap, just as bad as the 5nl donks in some cases except without your new player boomswitches you don't suck out as much,

Tbh I really couldn't give a toss if you're up $69 or whatever it was, or if you made $200 in some casino. The point is your evidence is hardly rock solid and could be posted by anyone with a green mat and some poker chips.

And well, if I gave you all my hand histories you'd see my player screen name for starters, and would be able to use my stats against me if we were to ever play at the same tables.

Amazing how a guy at the bottom of poker ecosystem warrants so much time away from the master's other pressing business. Humor break, right. A little self massaging of the battered ego needed?

And don't bother making **** up about how good business is, nobody gives gives a damn or believes you. Your lies are boring.

He is fun to talk to for a while, though by the end of today he will get boring if he doesn't change it up.

In contrast you are some random little bitter whiner stalker dude ( I assume we had some confrontation in the past in this meaningless thread that lingers with you still, though I have no memory of it or you), and where is the fun in debating that type of sub-human, since you are already outdated and stale.

On to the more fun for the moment riggie!


They would say they are a better player than you.

They would say the exact same about you.



They would say the same thing about you.



Or they normally play on different days or different times or different buy ins...

Of course if they were paranoid like you they would just say the same thing about you that you say about them, much like my bathroom example.



How do you know the players you beat were 2+2 trashtalkers?


Why don't you post your user name and the user names of people you think are "new" and also are ones you beat from 2+2, and we can see how accurate you are in your assessment!

Good luck when you confront another donk in the bathroom. Also, give that jjjjdonk a hug if you see him there, he really seems to need one (though be careful about some of his special hobbies he posted about yesterday...)

All the best.

Rock solid evidence. Guy knows it when he sees it.

This is far from universal:

http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/

I've freely admitted that. What level of evidence would you accept as genuine? You're the one who accused me of lying, after all - very convenient for you to accuse me of it then dismiss any level of proof I offer.

You're very quick to accuse others of being dishonest. 888 is rigged. I'm lying. I'm a shill. I'll manipulate the numbers. Says something about you, I think...

Well, since I'm from MD I'll probably never be on 888. And sorry but a good player should be able to play against anyone regardless of stats, shouldn't they? All knowing your numbers would tell me, I suspect, is that you're in Beluga territory. K5.

Nah, that's reserved for cocky idiots who come on here crowing about uncovering a rig that just so happens to strike whenever they play a hand as terribly as possible.

For ****'s sake, one of the hands you used as evidence was one where you were never ahead against a mega-drooler, and you gladly snapped off 100 BBs on the river.

LOL. it is not that it is impossible to detect the riging, it is the fact that it will no be large enough that it can not be written off as variance. any programmer with half a brain would know not to make it so you couldnt write it off as variance.

See everyone, otatop has never put money into the pot while behind, and he always wins at showdown. Never made a river call when beaten. He can just see through the cards.

Surprised with all your skill you're not enjoying your penthouse and Victoria's Secret models and are instead posting here, really.

I don't really care if you're lying or not. My problem was you implied I was a net 'donator' to poker, when in fact my graph shows I'm a winning player. Given you've posted on here before you're a losing player I don't think you should really be going on about 'the poker community thanks you for your donation' to other players, especially when they can actually provide concrete evidence that they beat the games (i.e. PT4 graphs) while your evidence is just a pile of poker chips.

Blah blah blah, one hand that 'might' have been played badly. Some drooler at 4nl just snapped off 150BB against me on the river when I had the nut flush (non paired board, so it was the NUTS) and he had 2 pair. Why don't you go and give him some **** about his bad play?

Well they'd be chatting ****. I'm obviously a better player than a 65% VPIP donk. My PT4 numbers are 20% VPIP and 16% PFR, I'm a good player.

That'd be the 20% then. For the remaining 80% they're probably new players. And their observations about me are ****ing irrelevant since we both know I didn't just sign up to the site.

Also, have to add, 888poker doesn't have as large a player pool as JokerStars, so someone I haven't seen before probably actually is a new player.

Well most 2+2 players that like to bang on about their so-called abilities play 25nl or above. It's a fair bet some of the guys at my table are on 2+2 even if they weren't posting in this thread. And it's not just on this thread you find people eager to tell you you're a **** poker player - it's all over the forums.

lolpotodds - Once again - post your whole hand histories and we'll run the analysis.

I've offered to put money where my mouth is. You've made excuses.

Nuff said. Continuing to discuss this with you is -EV.

I never said any of that, I'm just smart enough not to come here and post hands I butchered and try to hold them up as evidence of a global conspiracy to defraud me of $4.

Does the fact that your multitude of threads in Beginner's Questions (which is weird enough on its own given that you said "I don't need to work on my game, I already know how to play") all get similar replies to the hands you've posted ITT not give you a hint that your game is lacking in many, many areas?
LOL, of course a freeroll is going to be rigged. The shove by you is fine, so WP there. But of course you lost as a favorite, which is insane. You probably even think you were a massive favorite preflop, but guess what?

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

1,712,304 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Kh8d	56.41%	960,689	10,307
7s9s	43.59%	741,308	10,307

Barely ahead in a coinflip. CO was right to call your shove, so no one in this hand made a mistake.

Solid evidence of rigging, though.

I don't even think I butchered it. I had the ****ing nut flush for god sake. I was hugely unlucky and 888 made it so I had an awesome hand while at the same time giving the new player donk a better one.

As I type, I see some donk on 888 4nl just snapped off an all in on the river on a 4 to a flush board with TPWK. A pair. I had the nut flush! Where's his lecture on his ****e play?

If I'd recently signed up to 888poker I'd win that hand 100% of the time with no questions asked. That's the problem here.

It's a testament to the giant buttons possessed by the riggies, not Monteroy's one-trick "you're boring" pony that he trots out ad nauseum.

TBH, the idea that someone thinks Monteroy is an asset is actually more irritating than Monteroy himself. The thought that someone believes arrogance and a capacity to irritate is a benefit and not a character flaw is not far behind.

Still, this view is a useful reminder that poker players are a bit like MMA fans. Generally speaking, you're more likely to find a douchebag than an exemplar of humanity in their company.

Yeh, that was the goal. I posted repetitive and low-content memes to lampoon the repetitive and low-content posts of a riggie whose name escapes me at the moment.

satire /ˈsaˌtīr/ n the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices.

That the effect was lost on some was surprising.

That it was lost on people who think highly of Monteroy is not.

Yes, by the river. You called an admittedly small flop bet with K high. You called a still small, but bigger turn bet with K high and the nut flush draw. You were never ahead in the hand, and at your best you were 20% to bink your FD on the river and suck out on your opponent. You got $0 in good and 110+BBs in as a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge dog. Learn to recognize ****ty plays you've made instead of defending them to death. Why would I lecture a fish? You want fish to call on 4 flush boards with TPWK, it's how you take their money.

You've shown that you don't need anyone's input, so it doesn't matter if I tap the tank and tell you your play is awful, you'll continue merrily donating money because of course "I don't need to work on my game, I already know how to play". So you have a bunch of HHs from when you were new to 888 and just won every single coinflip you were in?

Hello. Sorry I never saw your post before. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I just sent this PM to Laughing Assasin:

Hello. I am a professional poker player ( David Bach ).

I have been doing this for 17 years, plus 4-5 more as a winning player.

I am actually a winner on Pokerstars, but at a very low rate ( about 100k, for a lot of hands/hours) since 2002.

I feel that I run way worse on allins in big pots on Pokerstars than I should, both live and in tournaments.

I have looked over my Holdem Manager database and have seen a few things that indicate I may be correct ( to start with I am 27k under allin EV).

However, I am really not that good with Holdem Manager and statistical analysis in general.

I was hoping someone could take a look at my hands, and tell me if I have some reason to be concerned, or if I am just better at remembering the important bad beats.

My suspicions go all the way back to 2004, when I could not seem to beat low limit mixed games on Pokerstars, but would crush Party Poker, Paradise, Etc...

I know there are many reasons why Pokerstars would have no reason to give anything other than a fair deal, but I have also been in this game long enough to know that sometimes greed is a powerful motivator ( plus it could be a rogue employee).


I am happy to pay a fair hourly rate for the work, it would give me great peace of mind to know for sure one way or the other.

Long Days and Pleasant Nights, David