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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9859. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-11-2009, 06:53 AM   #6676
SooperFish24
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
.
Do you understand the difference between 'protecting' someone and defending them against baseless allegations or criminal activities.



As has already been pointed out I don't insult everyone.

I insult a very, very, few people selected for their consistently moronic behaviour.

You are at the top of the list because:

1) You are one of the most idiotic posters I've ever encountered on the internet.

2) You persistently demonstrate your cretinously inadequate intellect for all to see.
Lol only an idiot would consider Online Poker to be rigged without concrete evidence right?

Quote:
Do you understand the difference between a shareholder and a company?
How could I possibly understand something that complex when I am afterall;

"one of the most idiotic posters on the internet" and someone with "cretinously inadequate intellect ".
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:57 AM   #6677
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Lol only an idiot would consider Online Poker to be rigged without concrete evidence right?
Only an idiot would express himself as certain that on line poker was rigged without any evidence, yes.

Quote:
How could I possibly understand something that complex when I am afterall;

"one of the most idiotic posters on the internet" and someone with "cretinously inadequate intellect ".
Ooops, of course you couldn't.

My mistake.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:59 AM   #6678
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Re: Is Online Poker Rigged?

tourneys are rigged

edit:seriously
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:01 AM   #6679
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
How would that affect their rate of pay?
If i explain then the sissies here will cry
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:59 AM   #6680
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Re: Is Online Poker Rigged?

rigged
that is why i win sometimes
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:20 PM   #6681
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

What does a systems architect do? Ive never heard of that before tbh.

Someone who works out how to build large computer systems - how many machines to use, whereabouts in the world they willl be placed, how they'll talk to one another, what software they'll use, what sort of comms, how the database will be arranged, that sort of thing.

Oh so you work with Poker Sites? Hmmm....So why do you feel it's appropriate to post here?
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:22 PM   #6682
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Somebody should start a petition thread to have QPW banned...
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:31 PM   #6683
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Only an idiot would express himself as certain that on line poker was rigged without any evidence, yes.



Ooops, of course you couldn't.

My mistake.
HAHAHA! Why? Explain why only an idiot would think online poker is rigged, and how you came to that conclusion?? Are they affiliate w/ the Pope? I'm confused as to what qualifed them to be known as so upstanding and legitimate that you could call people stupid and dillusional for questioning their integrity? Aren't some allowing US players to place bets even tho it's against the law?(as of now now)
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:02 PM   #6684
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
What does a systems architect do? Ive never heard of that before tbh.

Someone who works out how to build large computer systems - how many machines to use, whereabouts in the world they willl be placed, how they'll talk to one another, what software they'll use, what sort of comms, how the database will be arranged, that sort of thing.

Oh so you work with Poker Sites? Hmmm....
No. (Except as a player, of course. )

Quote:
So why do you feel it's appropriate to post here?
Because it's a site for poker players and I play poker.

Seems simple enough.
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:03 PM   #6685
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Somebody should start a petition thread to have QPW banned...
Someone?

Why not you?

Why expect someone else to do all the work?

Have you had your thread creation privileges revoked for some reason?
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:06 PM   #6686
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
HAHAHA! Why? Explain why only an idiot would think online poker is rigged,
You've changed the wording, haven't you?

I said only an idiot woud be certain that online poker was rigged without any evidence.

Wondering whether or not it might be does not mark you out to be an idiot. (Well, obviously you are marked out as an idiot for a host of other reasons.)

Last edited by qpw; 07-11-2009 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Nearly forgot to insult th1133
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:39 PM   #6687
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I have just returned from playing in LV everyday for almost a month. There is no question in my mind that the Online game is juiced. I don't that it is set to favor any one player over another, just to keep the action flowing and the game interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okiehustler View Post
Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched to Full Tilt six months ago. The first few months were much better over on Full Tilt.

Now Full Tilt is worse than Poker Stars ever was. The past month has been brutal. Tonight I've had pocket aces six times. All six times I lost to someone with a lower pocket pair.

I can't tell you how many times (at least 100 times the past thee weeks) where someone needs one card, especially two or three hours into a tournament, and they hit when odds are 90 to 95% in my favor.

You tell yourself that's poker until it happens time after time after time.

I enjoy playing poker online but I'm about ready to give it up. There doesn't seem to be a site to where it plays out like a casino. You see bad beats in a casino but NOTHING like Full Tilt and Poker Stars back when I played over on that site.

Curious as to others observations. Is there a site that's on the up and up or is it time to retire from online poker where you start to get the feeling the deck literally is stacked against you?
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:42 PM   #6688
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Somebody should start a petition thread to have QPW banned...
nah, then he would lose motivation to exist. who would troll this thread 24/7 everyday then?
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Old 07-11-2009, 01:44 PM   #6689
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by GaminDeBuci View Post
I have just returned from playing in LV everyday for almost a month. There is no question in my mind that the Online game is juiced. I don't that it is set to favor any one player over another, just to keep the action flowing and the game interesting.
in before "no u just see more hands in online poker, don't ya know that? how many hands did u play i vegas? i bet u could play same amount of hands in one hour playing online"
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:35 PM   #6690
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
in before "no u just see more hands in online poker, don't ya know that? how many hands did u play i vegas? i bet u could play same amount of hands in one hour playing online"
There's no point in just continually repeating this stuff. People who think games are juiced aren't going to be convinced otherwise. Comparing live to online in style of play alone is apples and oranges. People don't want to even consider the possibility that the softer play in live games contributes to the way they see things. People play live and have some success and think everything is fine, then have no clue what hit them online because people are far tighter and far more skilled on average.

Basically if they want to provide evidence of rigging and at least approach this subject from an intelligent and scientific point of view, then they'll get reasonable responses. If they're not, they'll get flamed like the idiots they are.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:53 PM   #6691
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
There's no point in just continually repeating this stuff. People who think games are juiced aren't going to be convinced otherwise. Comparing live to online in style of play alone is apples and oranges. People don't want to even consider the possibility that the softer play in live games contributes to the way they see things. People play live and have some success and think everything is fine, then have no clue what hit them online because people are far tighter and far more skilled on average.
On a related note, I sometimes wonder how many people start of on play money tables, think the know how to play poker because they can easily make 10 PTBB/hr at limit and get a rude awakaning when they try to play on real money tables.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:57 PM   #6692
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Pseudo-proof Stars RNG has flaws.

I was looking through my measly 6k hand history DB from pokerstars I came across this oddity.
One flop came Jd Td Qd, within 10 hands the exact same flop, in the exact same order, with the exact same suit, came out on the exact same table.
Please correct my math if incorrect, however these are my calculations.
  • Odds of hitting any specific flop is 1/52 times 1/51 times 1/50 or one in 132,600 times.
  • The odds of hitting same flop back to back are 132,600 to the 2nd power or one in 17,582,760,000 times.
  • The odds of hitting the exact same flop within 10 flops are 17,582,760,000/10 or one in 1,758,276,000 times.
  • The odds to win the 20 state Power Ball lottery are around 80 million to 1.
  • 80 million goes into 1.6 billion 20 times.
  • So according to my calculations I theoretically won the 20 state Power Ball lottery a little more than 20 times.

I don't think I'm that lucky so it must be my math.
Please correct.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:59 PM   #6693
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Re: Pseudo-proof Stars RNG has flaws.

the flop has no order, you are wrong

and this should go in the poker theory forum imo
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:02 PM   #6694
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Re: Pseudo-proof Stars RNG has flaws.

6000 hands? Were you reviewing your last 2 sessions?

You also forget to mention that 10 hands later for your table was about 30,000 hands later for the Stars server.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:06 PM   #6695
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Re: Pseudo-proof Stars RNG has flaws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by river.king View Post
I was looking through my measly 6k hand history DB from pokerstars I came across this oddity.
One flop came Jd Td Qd, within 10 hands the exact same flop, in the exact same order, with the exact same suit, came out on the exact same table.
Please correct my math if incorrect, however these are my calculations.
  • Odds of hitting any specific flop is 1/52 times 1/51 times 1/50 or one in 132,600 times.
Right, if you mean a specific flop with a specific order of cards.

Quote:
  • The odds of hitting same flop back to back are 132,600 to the 2nd power or one in 17,582,760,000 times.
Here's your mistake. The odds of hitting the same flop back to back are just 1 in 132,600. Because whatever the first flop is, there's a 1 in 132,600 chance the second flop will be identical.

Quote:
  • The odds of hitting the exact same flop within 10 flops are 17,582,760,000/10 or one in 1,758,276,000 times.
Another mistake here. The odds of hitting the first flop again within 10 flops later is about 1 in 132,600/10 or just 1 in 13,260. But you'd probably also think it was surprising if you hit the second flop again within 10 flops, or the third flop, etc. So it's more like 1 in 1,326 (not exactly, but about this).

Now if you've played 6000 hands, that's 600 sets of 10 hands, so it's hardly shocking you've seen the same flop twice within 10 hands at some point.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:17 PM   #6696
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Re: Pseudo-proof Stars RNG has flaws.

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Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
You also forget to mention that 10 hands later for your table was about 30,000 hands later for the Stars server.
That's actually irrelevant.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:17 PM   #6697
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Re: Pseudo-proof Stars RNG has flaws.

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Originally Posted by yad View Post
Here's your mistake. The odds of hitting the same flop back to back are just 1 in 132,600. Because whatever the first flop is, there's a 1 in 132,600 chance the second flop will be identical.
I'm a bit confused, I understand odds of hitting one flop is 1 in 132,600, but hitting them back to back is the same odds, 1 in 132,600? That can't be right.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:18 PM   #6698
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Re: Pseudo-proof Stars RNG has flaws.

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Originally Posted by river.king View Post
I'm a bit confused, I understand odds of hitting one flop is 1 in 132,600, but hitting them back to back is the same odds, 1 in 132,600? That can't be right.
It is right.

The mistake you're making is that you are doing the calculation for one specific flop.

It doesn't matter what the flop, there are 1/132600 chances that the next flop will be the same. So you don't need to compute the probability for the first flop.

If it helps, think of tossing a coin twice to see if the second toss is the same as the first.

The possibilities are:

HH
HT
TH
TT

So, whatever the second coin there is a 50% chance that it is the same as the first. Not a 25% chance.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:22 PM   #6699
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Also why was my post moved to the Rigged debate? There is a difference between murder and manslaughter, there is also a difference between rigged and flawed. I never said Pokerstars was rigged.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:26 PM   #6700
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Re: Pseudo-proof Stars RNG has flaws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by river.king View Post
  • The odds of hitting the exact same flop within 10 flops are 17,582,760,000/10 or one in 1,758,276,000 times.
Assuming you care about the order of the flop, I calculated that it was 1 in 2947.

Chance of a duplicate flop appearing in 10 hands is the same as:
1 - (Chance all 10 flops are different)

= 1 - [(132599*132598*132597*.....132591)/132600^9]
= 1 - (0.99966068)
= 1 in 2947

You were off by a factor of just over half a million....

Your set of 6000 hands has 5991 sets of 10 hands (Hands 1-10, Hands 2-11, Hands 3-12.... ) but these aren't independent. We can take a gigantic underestimate and say that there are 600 sets of 10 independent hands. (Hands 1-10, Hands 11-20,...). Note that this is a big underestimate because, for example, you could have witnessed the same board on Hands 368 and 372 which are only four hands apart, but are treated as being in different groups of ten by this method.

Then the chances you don't observe an identical board within some set of 10 hands is 2946/2947^600 = 81.5%, or the chances that you did observe it are 18.5%. Note again that this is a *gigantic* underestimate. It wouldn't surprise me if the actual result was well over 30%

If you don't care about the order the cards are dealt, i.e. QJTddd is the same flop as TQJddd etc... then it almost impossible that you would *not* have seen the same flop within the space of 10 hands at some point in a 6k hand sample.
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