Are you seriously implying we should fold AQo against 2 fish just because we're OOP? 4bb is a reasonable sized raise preflop in the circumstances, you can't think in terms of the absolute money amount.

Fish donks pot, but it's a small enough donk it's still worth me calling. Yeah I probably should have raised the turn, but that's not the point. At the point of the turn, I was a 90% favourite, and should have won the hand. Instead, 888poker decide to screw me.

Likewise, on the AK hand, I get the money in as an 86% favourite. Then the stupid donk who shoves all in with A9s gets his rivered flush.

And the hand with the straight, I flop the nuts, but of course as I'm over 888poker's $100 limit, they decide I'm not going to win that pot so they can bring me back under their quota.

So in all 3 of those hands, we have:

1) Put in a net 9BB when behind.
2) Put in 107bb when ahead.
3) Put in 97.5bb when ahead.

So, in total, I put in 195bb when ahead. My winrate in those hands? Negative.

It's not realistic to expect anyone to always put the money in when ahead on every street in every hand. Even Phil Ivey doesn't manage that. But on those 3 hands I should have won big overall, instead I lost big.

Never said fold I said you had no plan for the hand other than "I got dealt AQ which I read in a book from 2006 and saw on TV people should raise 3-4x pre-flop."


Again, I would ask what your plan is on a blank turn (say a 2) when they guy bets another 2 or 3 BB. You probably call again, and then say the river is a 3 and he bets 3BB again what do you do? Fold?

Ever think of raising or folding the flop? Probably not...

Claiming you were a 90% favorite (actually 88.6% but whats a couple percentage points) after the fact when you called the biggest bet when behind proves exactly what I said one of your many huge flaws in your game was in this post about a different disaster of a hand of yours

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=66259

Using your logic, you called a bet with 22% equity on the flop and if the turn is a blank you likely call another small bet with 13% equity, before LOLfolding a similar tiny bet on the river.


Keep playing at 888 where you believe it is rigged, and keep posting comedy like your hands in this thread, but be sure to avoid the strategy threads where they would give you a lot of helpful advice. Stay on that downward spiral!

All the best.

LOL is this a level? Everyone raises 3-4bb preflop, not just the 'donks'.

No, I never thought of folding the flop, given I had 2 overcards and fish often mindonk the pot when they have nothing. There's a good chance I'm still ahead on the flop, a massive chance I'm ahead on the turn, and a reasonable chance I'm ahead on the river given villains bet isn't an overbet shove. Unless you've seen villains hole cards of course, which I didn't have the luxury of. But lol, you keep folding AQ on the flop when given 7/1 pot odds if you feel like.

Raising flop here multiway would obviously be terrible. Aside from runner runner straight all we have is overcards when called.

Yeah we all know I should have raised turn but my bets, or lack thereof, have no effect on the cards been drawn. Even just check calling all the way down, I should be winning that hand. Especially when the Q hits. But 888poker love a river surprise so the guy with 58s can win.

Just checking in to see if poker.nj decided to rig everything yet. Looks like we have our answer lolol. #didnttakelong

You're days behind - FullDeck was complaining a couple hours after the site launch.

If you raised on the turn it actually could of changed the cards being drawn. If you raised and got him to fold. The river never would of came and you would of actually won the hand. Not just think you should have won.

Wow, that idiot keeps posting annoying bad beats. Baffling.

PokerPlayer66, stop playing poker. You are neither mentally not intellectually capable to understand the game.

You are not getting the concept of variance and refuse to listen to any advice in that regard. You just know better. You are not getting the concept of comparing your "extraordinary" stats with the mean to see if they are even extraordinary, you know better and keep whining about single hands. I SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU: IF A STATISTIC IS LIKELY TO BE EXTRAORDINARY CAN ONLY BE DECIDED IF YOU COMPARE IT WITH WHAT WAS STATISTICALLY EXPECTED. SINGLE HANDS SAY NOTHING. ALL THEY PROVE IS THAT YOU LIKE TO WHINE A GOD DAMN LOT. THAT **** DOES NOT BELONG HERE, THIS IS NOT BBV!

Your childish and self-centered whining has no place in a riggie thread. You are just embarassing yourself with the continued proof of the lack of mental capacity needed to grasp the single concepts people named for your consideration.

Do you really think you are entitled to be taken serious when you choose to ignore everything what people say who play poker for years and actually know what they are talking about? Do you really think you know it all better?

GTFO!

But even without raising, I was a 90% favourite...this is what I mean. Forget about the bets, or how much should have been raised preflop, or the flop action, whatever. The fact is, villain got a river card to beat me when he was a considerable dog.

I love how you're all focusing on one minor point from one hand too. What about the AK hand, and the one where I flopped a straight, got all the money in, then villain got a full house by the end? My all in equity was well over 80% in both those hands and I lost them both. 888poker now owes me ONE THOUSAND BIG BLINDS. I'm not even lying, I'd be rolled for 10nl by now if it wasn't for 888 stealing my roll.

You mad bro? My 6max winrate is 6x below the all in EV winrate. I.e. all in EV is 12bb/100, real winrate is 2bb/100. But you're just gonna tell me that's variance too. It's the catch all excuse, no matter how much the data differs from what is expected, it's all just variance.

Funny how this 'variance' doesn't happen on Stars, only 888.

If you had a brain and would listen, than you could check yourself and actually provide proof. That's what i told you several times, it's no rocket science. And yes, i get mad when someone has no clue but keeps showing a know-it-all attitude.

People here provided you with graphs showing bigger deviations than what you consider proof. You ignore. People tell you that single hands prove nothing. You ignore. People provide links to variance-simulators. You ignore. Looks like you don't want to be taken seriously and prefer being an annoying bitch.

You are too dumb or to stubborn to understand simple concepts. My money is on both.

You have zero plan for the hand when you raise your standard 3-4x, you simply do it because you think it is the right thing to do. It would be similar to playing chess where you memorize the first handful of moves from a book for a "standard opening" but you have no idea what the purpose of the opening is while doing it.

Your pre-flop play is marginal at best because you do it out of habit (AQ = raise to 3-4x) without a plan for the hand. If you were in the sb and 7 people limped before you then you would still raise 3x and whine if you lost later.


Generally I say people benefit from using tracking software and knowing about the basic concepts of poker, but you are one of the unusual cases where you misuse them so badly that they likely hurt your limited game.

Anyway, your flop play is pretty bad because again you have zero plan for the hand and it is LOLtastic that you believe calling is the only proper course of action.

I asked what you would do on brick turn and rivers and you conveniently ignored those questions, but I already know - you would call a turn (citing pot odds) and fold and whine about donks on the river. That is why your call on the flop as opposed to a fold or raise is quite bad.

What can a raise (that you called terrible) do? The main things are it will let you know where you stand in the hand and give you initiative, which calling does not do at all. It also puts more pressure on the button to fold (facing a bet and raise), and it may very well get a fold from the SB as well if he is weak.

If the SB calls then he likely has a marginal hand (like he did), and most times he will check the turn, so effectively you have increased your equity in the hand (by increasing the chances the button will fold) and if you check the turn back on a blank you have effectively reached the river with the same size pot (with a hand with some showdown value) that you would do while being the calling station anyway.

As the hand played out you hit the turn and when the opponent checks (or small bets ) you can bet/raise and make him make a mistake if he calls, because it is less likely he will put you on AQ. If he does and gets lucky then so be it, but as played you never forced your opponent to make a mistake.


I can also write a piece about why folding may be an option on the flop, but I am fairly confident the above (about raising) will not stick in your head, so I do not see the need to duplicate wasted efforts as one example is enough for me to enjoy reading your donk reply.




Your turn play was about as bad as poker can be played. OK, open folding to a check would be worse, but that is about it. You should not be winning that hand because you never did what you needed to actually win that hand, and it is why you end up losing bigger pots with your badly played AK/AQ, and you win smaller pots when you do win.


Your river play is pretty bad as well, because the betting line your opponent took was essentially an advertisement with lots of shiny neon lights that he had a very strong hand on the river. You never considered that, you just called and whined about the equity you had on the turn (ignoring the equity you had on the flop when you stationed it up like a donk).


Post that hand in this forum with your comments (love the one about only calling being the right play on the flop) in the appropriate strategy forum and watch the feedback you get. You have posted in those forums before so do not be afraid to do so with that hand and we can see how the experienced poker community regards your play on each street.

Thanks again for showing that there are a lot of mega donks that play poker that even have an awareness of the game and of twoplustwo. Guys like you give hope for the future of the industry.

All the best.

Is this the strategy thread? My god bring back the rigged thread. I demand it lol!

Funny how you keep babbling that nonsense after CMAR showed you a graph with FAR GREATER VARIANCE than what you provided. Guess from what site? Ding ding ding..

But, hey, idiots gonna idiot.

I raise 3bb+1 per limper as suggested here. Wow, technically it should've been a 5bb raise rather than a 4bb. Are you really having a go at me for that? You reckon any of these donks would have folded to a 5bb raise when they called a 4bb one?

So calling a flop bet = having zero plan for that hand now, does it? Why don't you go take that line up with Ivey, since I'm sure I've seen him call flop bets on High Stakes Poker before? All your suggestion would do is lead to a bloated pot OOP holding ace high. Raising flop in a multiway pot when you have nothing is pretty spewtastic.

But since you mentioned it, the plan for the hand was:

1) Hope the preflop raise folded out one of the villains, so I'd get to the pot heads up.

2) Depending on the board, fire a cbet. But not if it's a multiway pot with a board that doesn't hit my range and smacks the callers ranges.

3) I called the flop bet, and yeah I will cite pot odds for that. I was getting 7/1 and may well have still had the best hand. Even if not, I likely had 6 clean outs to the best hand, so with implied odds factored in as well, flop call was super standard. Folding to a 2bb donk would be horrendous.

4) I'd have called a blank turn for the same reasons if the fish donked 2bb
into the pot.

5) I'd also have called a blank river if the fish was donking 2bb. If I still only had ace high then villain made a half pot bet like he did, I'd have folded. As played, I called - my hand was underrepped and the bet to call wasn't a massive overbet shove. In what way is a half pot river bet an indication of a 'very strong hand'? A shove for 8x pot, yeah at 4nl that's normally a very strong hand. Half pot? No.

I only have to be ahead 1/4 times to make calling river profitable. I don't think I'm behind anywhere near 3/4 times here.

I'm going to suggest you should go post in the micros strategy forum instead. Post a thread about how we should be cbetting as a bluff into a multiway pot at 4nl. Reckon you'd be surprised at the response.

Btw, yeah, a guy mindonking the flop is an insta-fist-pump-raise with a very wide range for any competent player, because guess what: He shows both, weakness and the desire to see a cheap turn. By calling you exploit neither of the two.

But you probably know better like every time someone tells you something.

Did you forget the part where there's still a player to act after us?

You know what, I am going to post in the micros forum about the flop play. This'll be hilarious.

He knows better. What a surprise. What would you think how often will said player behind raise/call/fold after you repped basically an overpair? What play defines the range of your opponents best? Is the information gained by raising valuable?

Please ask the people in µNL what they think, and tell them that you know better even if they play for years. And post your bad beats in BBV, i am sure they will appreciate your expert play there.

You will ignore and be back soon to post another terribly played hand you think is proving a rig when it only proves your subpar IQ. Looking forward on you making yourself an idiot again.

Makes my day when people claim they know it all and remove all doubt they don't in the process.

Care to comment on CMAR's graph after claiming your graph proves that your results are capped? What did you see when trying to simulate your results with a variance simulator? Did you compare your results with the range 90% of all results are in? Were they in that range? What does that tell you about the dumb drivels you like to write about "proof"? Are you embarrassed?

Yeah, that's a lot of questions to ignore, but I am confident you can easily do it.

I don't really see the point in running 'variance simulators', since all they do is give one guys opinion of what a possible distribution of results is.

I mean, what is a 'standard deviation' anyway? All it is is some mathematical formula that is supposed to tell you whether results are in an 'expected range'. Why do we use that formula? Who decided that formula leads to accurate projections? Let's say a standard deviation gives a winrate between 200bb and 2000bb. If I only win 199bb, does that prove a rig, whereas if I won 201bb, that proves it's just variance? Why draw the line there?

Regarding CMAR's graph - it's my understanding that larger downswings are possible at higher stakes, due to the winrates at those stakes been lower (as the average player is better). At the nanostakes, one really shouldn't suffer a downswing because large winrates are possible, whereas it's possible to suffer downswings at small/mid stakes because the average player at those stakes is much better?

Basically, there's less 70% VPIP's at the stakes he was playing handing out free equity. I can understand how one could go on downswings playing against guys who can also play good poker. What I don't think is possible however, is a prolonged downswing when playing 70% VPIP whales. Your equity advantage in the hands is just too high - unless there's a rig of course.

You called without a plan.

If you'd said you were calling the flop to then raise the turn on any card that hits you OR any scare card, that would be a plan

I've not played nickel games for awhile but if I'm the prefolp aggressor, I raise the flop. Would you just call the 2 cents here if you had AA / KK or in fact any overpair? Actually, don't answer that, you probably would.

He calls with a plan.

I already explained the 'plan'. Pot odds dictated I should call and reevaluate on the turn.

This simply must be a prolonged level though. If you're the preflop aggressor, you raise the flop? Even when you missed completely, it's multiway, and smacks villains range?

When they call the flop I bet you go onto barrel a blank turn as well, right, since raising goooooood, calling baaaaaaaad?

No, course I wouldn't just call with AA. But I actually have a little thing called 'pot equity' there. On that flop with AQ, I've got nothing except fold equity, and given it's multiway you'd need both villains to have a very high fold to cbet percentage to make a play like that profitable.

That's how it is. You are too stubborn to realize that, no matter how many people will tell you that. Amazing achievment, congrats.

Are you too dumb to use wiki before making brainless wrong statements? Yeah, that produces a lot of confidence toward your arguments.

Pfff Franxic, could you calm down. I was reading the latest posts of you and you are ranting in all of them. Is this topic that important for you that it is worth to talk like that? What a joke.

I have no idea why he does get upset when finally a genuine nanostakes megadonk riggie comes along who believes he knows how to play and tries to explain his strategies in more specifics than "equalization" or a single bad beat whine. He should be happy you stumbled in!


You have said if a brick was on the turn you would call a small bet. You got the card you wanted and you called a small bet. Not quite sure what you planned to "re-evaluate."

I like that you compare your play to Phil Ivey while also assuming that everyone who is giving more detailed strategy must be leveling you because you need to believe your way is the only way that is correct (and this is putting aside that your core beliefs are based on a paranoid conspiracy that a site is keeping you from winning $100).

Players like you languish because you stubbornly believe the newbie approach you have to the game is flawless, and when clear errors are pointed out you rationalize it away by saying a meaningless comment like " I had 90% on the turn so I deserved to win anyway" even after you calling stationed it up.


Stick to your plans of calling 3 streets of betting with ace high instead when you do not get the card you need, and after whine about how you had the best hand pre-flop. Then talk about Phil Ivey and conspiracies. That seems to be working for you to date, so why give up a good approach?


You misuse and toss around poker terms like you have overread too many books (without learning much) while at the same time you dismiss the statistics of the game (ie: what is a standard deviation anyway).

You are destined for exactly what you will achieve in this industry, a short posting history complaining about how rigs keep you from making a fortune until you eventually quit and vanish.

Congratulations in advance for your fate and thank you for providing some actual genuine entertainment in this thread since the other riggies have really stunk it up lately.

Keep calling!

All the best.

You are right laurents, i was ranting. But i hate the know-it-all attitude paired with pure ignorance. I also believe that you are allowed to get explicit in a discussion when your arguments get ignored by someone who clearly has no clue, like the "variance simulators give one guys opinion" line.

If someone repeatedly says dumb things, I name them dumb things. I accept if someone does the same with me.