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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:30 PM   #6276
PokErasmus
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromantha View Post
... IOM gaming commision pages indicating that a number of things are audited. If you don't trust the gaming commisions then don't play on those sites, just like I would keep my money under my bed if I didn't trust the FSA.
Number of things not enough good in the domain of online businesses – players have been asking full audit for long years that FT and PS are unable and refuse to provide.

I am glad you mentioned the trust of gaming authority, but your comparison to FSA is just a logical fallacy.
Anyhow, explain please, how the tiny Isle of Man authority ensures that the policies are enforced on PS’s London and foreign based business continuity data centres which are not in the jurisdiction of the authority? That was my original question yesterday ...

And then, please explain, why you so scared to see the full audit report, and why you take it as a personal offence if somebody requesting the report from FT or PS?
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:32 PM   #6277
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
You're just making most of this up as you go along, aren't you?
So where are the full audit reports that proves that not only the Isle of Man but the London based and foreign based business continuity servers are audited? Let us know if you are aware such resources are available.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:36 PM   #6278
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Number of things not enough good in the domain of online businesses – players have been asking full audit for long years that FT and PS are unable and refuse to provide.

I am glad you mentioned the trust of gaming authority, but your comparison to FSA is just a logical fallacy.
Anyhow, explain please, how the tiny Isle of Man authority ensures that the policies are enforced on PS’s London and foreign based business continuity data centres which are not in the jurisdiction of the authority? That was my original question yesterday ...

And then, please explain, why you so scared to see the full audit report, and why you take it as a personal offence if somebody requesting the report from FT or PS?
How many players? How many years? I've followed this thread for a while and you are the first person I can remember asking such a thing.
How do you know they are unable to provide this information rather than just unwilling?
Why was my analogy a logical fallacy? I thought it was pretty good to be honest.
What is a business continuity data center?
What is your evidence that 'business continuity data centres' exist in locations other than the Isle of Man?
Why can't the gaming commision employ external auditors who are perfectly capable of visiting London or Australia?
What makes you think I am scared to see an audit? If anything I would be quite interested in it.
What makes you think that I am offended by you? If anything I find you amusing.

edit: deleted a previous post as just seemed pointless arguing with PokErasmus. Leaving this post as it is only questioning rather than arguing.

Last edited by Pyromantha; 07-07-2009 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:36 PM   #6279
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
So where are the full audit reports that proves that not only the Isle of Man but the London based and foreign based business continuity servers are audited? Let us know if you are aware such resources are available.
They are in a safe in the office of the IOM gaming commision.

The combination is - oh, perhaps I'd better not mention that on a public forum.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:39 PM   #6280
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Pyromantha View Post
What is a business continuity data center?
Yes, this is a question that needs answering.

I assumed it was just another made up element in the fantasy world the PokE inhabits.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:40 PM   #6281
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Re: PS FT people who want to start getting together online to test these sites ourselves

They don't need to get respect from anyone, people who will actually look into it can read for themselves.

Rest assured this evidence is not for some degenerate bloggers.

Inconsistencies aren't going to be looked into by people who post here because your opinions on the matter are irrelevant.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:40 PM   #6282
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Pyromantha View Post
Some interesting reading in those files to be honest. Obviously no way of telling if the commision really does look at everything they say they do, but they seem like a professional outfit at least. Having looked around the IOM site a bit more it seems from the guidance notes on http://www.gov.im/gambling/applications.xml that they do look at more than I posted earlier.

Well, I stated in a number of posts yesterday here that it seems the regulations are excellent and the gaming authority did excellent job terms of drafting the regulations.

The problem is, players finally would like to see that the excellent policies are enforced by the authority.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:42 PM   #6283
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Re: PS FT people who want to start getting together online to test these sites ourselves

Have you contacted the Isle of Mann gaming commission for an explanation? If you want people to look into it, that sort of seems like that place to start.

Or you can continue to use twoplustwo as your blog by starting random, haphazard threads with whatever thoughts fill your head.

Either way I guess.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:47 PM   #6284
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
The problem is, players finally would like to see that the excellent policies are enforced by the authority.
You mean in the same way that we can see that banking regulations are enforced or air transport regulations are enforced or petro-chemical transport regulations are enforced.

Is that what you mean?
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:48 PM   #6285
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Re: Joking aside - Pokerstars rigged study...

Hmm, interesting stuff OP, gl with your investigation, please return and let us know of your findings!

But joking aside, I would support an investigation into the accusation that PS is rigged against people that have an image of a cat in their avatar. I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:48 PM   #6286
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Well, I stated in a number of posts yesterday here that it seems the regulations are excellent and the gaming authority did excellent job terms of drafting the regulations.

The problem is, players finally would like to see that the excellent policies are enforced by the authority.
Maybe you could email the gaming commisions and see if they will tell you exactly what auditing is undertaken and even if that information can be made publically available.

I agree with you (first time ever I think) that players would like to see these audits, at least the bits that directly relate to the game software and perhaps security (as opposed to back-end stuff).

However, my point was that if the sites are under no obligation to produce these audits then I very much doubt they will do, assuming even that they have access to them. I believe you vastly overestimate the amount of business they lose by not doing so, and perhaps underestimate potential costs of doing so given that they are using proprietary software that they presumably paid a lot for. It is also possible that the gaming commision will not allow the sites to publish these audits, treating them as private between the commision, the site and the external auditor.
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:58 PM   #6287
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Re: Joking aside - Pokerstars rigged study...

I find that when you multi-table, say 2-6 tables that you will get the same hand on two tables or maybe all tables. I have seen pocket 88's on all 3 tables at once, Q10 (same suits) on 2 tables. Same hole cards, same flops on 2 different tables where every card is same except one.
It would be interesting to see if someone put together some long term statistics about a site with the RNG and how truly random it is.

I have heard stories of people who recorded every hand and flop, then supposedly figured out the "system".

Last edited by theOwnererr; 07-07-2009 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:07 PM   #6288
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Re: PS FT people who want to start getting together online to test these sites ourselves

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Originally Posted by Stars View Post
PS and FT and Bodog deserve to be tested and if we get enough people together with proven bad variance we can start to show that things are skewed a certain direction.
What do you mean by "proven bad variance"?

What do you mean by "skewed in a certain direction"?

In which direction is the skewing being done?
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:08 PM   #6289
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Re: PS FT people who want to start getting together online to test these sites ourselves

Again with this crap? Ban OP for spamming the boards. WTF?
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:10 PM   #6290
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Re: Joking aside - Pokerstars rigged study...

I agree...just go play a hyper turbo...big stacks win more often than not for first 1/2 hr until like 30 til money then boom shorties got shafted for first 1/2 hr so time for them to make a run. Also the reason why I hate taking an unwarranted flip deep in an mtt against a bigger stack. Of course no one will ever figure it out because it's way too much work and they already have stats out of stuff to "prove" it's not rigged...but no one keeps track of all in hands which is totally different. Also, there are too many factors, like where was big stack at in relation to the button, player, etc.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:10 PM   #6291
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Pyromantha View Post
How many players?
Just in this thread quite a few users asked it yesterday, probably hundreds since the thread started. The survey I have referred to yesterday indicates that 50% percent of online gamblers do not trust online gambling. I am sure users being unsure about the integrity of online gambling would be happy to see evidence that site operators are indeed audited.

What exactly is your agenda being so active and seemingly unsetled about the topic when someone ask a simple question: are the sites really audited by the tiny offshore gaming authorities?
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:10 PM   #6292
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Re: PS FT people who want to start getting together online to test these sites ourselves

Quote:
Rest assured this evidence is not for some degenerate bloggers.
Degenerate bloggers? Who are you talking about?

Quote:
Inconsistencies aren't going to be looked into by people who post here because your opinions on the matter are irrelevant.
Then why are you posting here?
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:14 PM   #6293
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

PokErasmus you still haven't answered the question:

What is a business continuity data centre?

It sounds like some(yet another )thing you have just invented for your little fantasy world.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:21 PM   #6294
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Re: Joking aside - Pokerstars rigged study...

regardless of the outcome of OP's idea, analysis, and or the help he might get in this thread, this is an interesting exercise... and I just hope some with strong statistical background and access to large sample sizes on Stars tourneys can help him out...leave the flaming for NVG
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:30 PM   #6295
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Well, I stated in a number of posts yesterday here that it seems the regulations are excellent and the gaming authority did excellent job terms of drafting the regulations.

The problem is, players finally would like to see that the excellent policies are enforced by the authority.
Actually, if your fantasies about player wants were what players actually wanted then the sites would have to do it to meet those demands. You speak pretty much for yourself, and that is if you even play anymore (many of the other riggedologists quit after losing consistently).

You do have a clever skill of picking what people say and spinning new contexts from it in ways they never intended, and clearly you do it on purpose to serve your agenda. Basically you remind me of an extreme conspiracy 9/11 type guy who has a bit of education behind him. Those guys can talk in circles for days without ever saying anything specific that can be verified.

Look at all of your posts, not a single specific bit of proof, nor any specific breakdown of your beliefs. It's all vague and nearly all of it is just leeching some words others say and then adding "I am glad we agree that xxx" when they never said that at all.

All the while you will still not repost the hands you claimed proved something (because , well, they did not). Probably a smart move to avoid the trap of getting specific though with actual data. You also have never written a single site to ask about your concerns. You also have not made it clear which rooms are rigged and which are not and why.

You speak to spade as if you are a colleague, even though you have not shown a shred of skill in analyzing data. In fact aside from your magical hands that were quickly laughed at (because they were not identical as you suggested) that you have abandoned all you have done is talk in flowery unspecific language that is the equivalent of saying "people like world peace."

The fraud is up. Either put up or shut up (actually I hope you keep going , I suspect the mafia/entropy stuff you have said before is only the tip of your creative beliefs). Even qpw will eventually get bored if all you say is fluff.

Let's see some beef (or tofu if you are a vegan). Hell, how about a single damn email you sent to ask about your concerns .

Anyway that's it for me today. I had my fill of paranoia, time to make money, as some of us are capable of doing on a consistent basis . Being a proponent has privileges.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:30 PM   #6296
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Re: Joking aside - Pokerstars rigged study...

I've played a ton of 4.4/180 tourneys and noticed the same phenomenon. Miracle cards seem to come for the big stacks way more often than they should. Maybe I've only noticed this because brutal suckouts are so much more memorable than standard outcomes, but it's definitely something I've noticed.

I think Stars has a clear incentive to rig the games. Faster bustousts = fewer tables running = fewer resources spent. More importantly, the faster they bust people out of the games, the more likely it is that those people will buy in for another tourney. Remember, Stars doesn't make a dime from non-rebuy tourneys once the entry fees are locked in. So the only way they can get more of your money when you're playing tourneys is if they get you off the tables as quickly as possible. I think that's why they flood us with turbos. More $$$ for them.

On the flipside, Stars is one of the top two brands in the online poker business. They have a reputation to uphold. If it came out that their site was rigged, business would plummet. So while I think it's easy to see how certain types of rigging would be profitable for them in the short term, I don't know that those considerations would outweigh the potential calamity of a cheating scandal. It might be in their best interest to keep the games legit even though they could make more money by rigging the deck.

Either way, I would be very interested in seeing the results of a study on this topic. I think the major factors you'd have to look at are the hand strength, the relative stack sizes, and maybe the ROI of the players involved. One of my other hunches is that Stars might weight the deck for losing players, allowing them to tread water on the site a little longer than they should.
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:41 PM   #6297
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Re: Joking aside - Pokerstars rigged study...

there are not nearly enough pictures in this thread
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Old 07-07-2009, 01:58 PM   #6298
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Re: Joking aside - Pokerstars rigged study...

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Originally Posted by DogFace View Post
One of my other hunches is that Stars might weight the deck for losing players, allowing them to tread water on the site a little longer than they should.
Which is why everyone gets huge bonk when a new acct opens...then they just blow it off. Wonder how hsmtts work...prolly why I do better in bigger buy ins than smaller ones, is because I'm a worse player and get rewarded for people with more monies.

Also, OP, u'd have to do this for a ton of months...so you get a true calculation of what happens when ur running above expectation, and then below...I don't think there is a normal expectation in online lol.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:20 PM   #6299
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
QPW:
you are a tool. just stop talking
Hello, smearsy. Top quality post as usual.

Enjoying your latest gimmick account?

Hows the shilling for RealDeal going.
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Old 07-07-2009, 02:38 PM   #6300
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Yea I had few quid lef in an account i had so I though I would have a 'dable' at the low stakes. The guy who was winning every hand was there bullying me every hand eventually I flopped an ace and went all in assuming he had nowt but of course he had AK.
OK fair enough my bad play, then a little later, I have JJ I make a big raise, he calls
flop 884 I'am all in so is he, I got he he only had a 4 bbut of course the trun is a 4 as well.

That's just one typical hand of many, anyway earlier they stole all my poker poiints, they decided to make them worthless - how nice.

Then they had introductory freerolls where of course I get a load of luck to 'soften me up', of course when it comes to cash games I the opposite of that luck.
Anyway that's another site I won't play at anymore, they cheated me out of my points thus establishing the fact they believe cheatin pays so F**K EM!!



And this story isn't exaggerated or made-up at all. 100% truth.

LOL
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