Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2009, 02:11 PM   #6101
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
I find quite unusual your admin methodology Markus. You worry about people who actually came here to write about the subject of the thread, but you got nothing to say about people like qpw and others who rants, personally attacks users that write actually about the subject of the thread and makes impossible having a conversation about the subject of the thread, just because they think it is an irrational topic.
Possibly because you and your fellow rigtards are in the habit of just making things up when your case falls apart.

I have frequently made posts about the nitty gritty of why rigging would be very difficult for a site to do.

I've also made posts trying to help people see that what they experience is not particularly unusual.

It's because the hard core rigtards just ignore all that stuff or respond by crying shill that I indulge myself in some hard-core tail pulling.

Where someone has genuine doubts and responds in an intelligent manner to discussions about those doubts then the get treated with the same courtesy that people get treated in other forums.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 02:28 PM   #6102
suzzer99
Save the Cheerleader, Save the World
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: givin' 'em the business
Posts: 98,575
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
The main problem for the site in trying to rig the deal in favour of certain players without getting caught (and thus for those who are asserting that this is a feasible thing to do) is this:

For there to be any point in doing it it must be noticable to losing players (since these are the ones that all these theories see as the beneficiaries).

Now, how in hell can the effect be noticable to players who, by definition, are not very good, when at one and the same time it is undetectable (apart from a vague feeling of not winning as often as they should) to players who are actually better at understanding the probability maths involved?

This is the problem that will come back and bite you time after time after time if you want to propose schemes like this.
It doesn't matter if it's noticeable to the losing players, it matters if it turns a -10% ROI player into a breakeven player who will stick around for a while longer, maybe be more encouraged to redeposit.

How many fairly crappy players do you talk to who think they're pretty good live, but think online is totally rigged because they just get crushed, and therefore never play online anymore? Now just imagine if you could give those guys a little boost - overall that should mean more money in play, which means more money for the site.

Or times like right now, when the future of US players is very much in doubt. Any money that gets transferred from US to Euro players is a lot more likely to remain in play. Also the last thing you want right now is discouraged Euro players, since they might be your whole base in a year.

Or think of someone who lost a ton, got pissed, but got lured back with some kind of small bonus. Wouldn't you really want that person to run good? Same with a brand new person. Can you imagine hitting a 1 in 100 downswing with your first deposit? Few people would overcome that and persevere I would think. So that's a lost customer. It's like a drug dealer giving you the first few hits for free. And lets be honest, for most of the people we make money off of, poker is like a semi-unhealthy diversionary drug.

There are very obvious incentives to favor certain players over another. The question is just is it worth it. Common sense seems to say no, or not yet. But Ed makes some very good arguments that you can't guarantee one or two people won't get greedy at some point.

Last edited by suzzer99; 07-06-2009 at 02:37 PM.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 02:39 PM   #6103
lenasrokas
adept
 
lenasrokas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Last Train To Grindland
Posts: 1,184
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

is this true that Stars haven't been audited since 2003?
lenasrokas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 02:40 PM   #6104
Bingo_Boy
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,872
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagnje View Post
I have little doubt that my horryfing card run could perhaps be explained with variance (oh well it was 1: 100 million shot, it happens every day).
I don't know why I'm asking but was this number pulled out of your a55 for dramatic effect or do you have some data to share?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Now tell me, why you can't consider that PS and FT can make an extra 10 or 20 or 50 million per year by deploying bot accounts and keeping some portions of the deposit for the house. Don't forget we are talking about the traditionally criminal linked gambling industry with Madoff type of business owners.

Anyway, lets wait if such proof of concept about the bot account is possible at all, if it is detectable then nothing to discuss.

Take care.
Magical fabricated numbers? Check.
Bot accounts? Check
Comparing poker site employees to criminals / maffia etc without proof of wrongdoing? Check.
Admission there is no proof of any of it and it may not even be possible? Check.

Good, solid rigtard post. Well done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post

There is no trouble qpw, and let Josem security expert from PS prove that PS is indeed honest business. Why your are so worry? Josem proves it and everyone will be happy.

Ok, I really have to go, take care.
Must be nice to have multi-million dollar companies pandering to your every desire. I'm confident that whatever data is provided you will dispute is genuine and ask for something else.
Bingo_Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 02:55 PM   #6105
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Hello, I hope you are well.
swell, thanks!
Quote:
To be honest I have no idea what are you talking about. I found your site and this thread that is dedicated for discussing rigged online poker software and I was under the impression that it is public domain where this topic can be discussed. Being software professional and interested in poker I found this topic is fascinating mainly from software and IT system viewpoint, but from business process viewpoint as well.

So I am in a thread that dedicated for rigged online poker and discussing our experiences, observations, feelings about the Madoff type of criminals.
Here's what I'm talking about - you've complained about and insulted posters who, according to you, have no life and spend too much time posting here. Yet you continually make accusations based on a hunch and avoid requests for proof to back up your claims by ridiculing those who point out that what you're doing amounts to libel.

Of course you can discuss whatever you like. In that spirit, I thought it permissible to inquire about your agenda. Because most people, when they don't have an ulterior motive, are satisfied to make their point and move on.

You, however, have chosen to come back again and again after sharing your opinion. We understand your stance. At this juncture though, if one was truly interested in advancing the discussion, it's time to "put up or shut up" - as in if you want to be taken seriously then provide some data to show us you're something other than a paranoid loser or a troll just in it for arguing.

Thus far, your continued rambling, evidence-free posts have, in my opinion, shown you not likely to be interested in discussing this subject, but instead just either want someone to agree your failure at online poker is someone else's fault or you just want to get the Internet Poker Forum regulars (you know, the folks who take this business seriously...) angry.

Another possibility is you have a reason to defame the industry for your own personal gain, or perhaps that of an organization which you are associated with.

Regardless of your motives, it sure seems to be an uphill battle trying to convince people who have made their living playing online poker for several years, creating their own databases they've analyzed with satisfactory results, that they're being cheated. But I am wondering why you would spend so much time and effort arguing with folks who already have an opinion; common sense says it would be easier to influence the "fence-sitters." This is not the place to find such malleable minds. I suggest you take your crusade elsewhere.
Quote:
But what are you doing here? (Apart from the fact that you are an admin and get paid to be here :-)))
First, I don't get paid to moderate the forums, I was asked to be a mod because I have a knack for sniffing out scammers and helping keep innocent traders from giving their money to thieves. I do that by using EVIDENCE which is left all over the internet by these scumbags to prove their undesirability to transfer funds to. I don't just make declarations about a hunch I have about them being unlikely to uphold their end of the bargain. I provide links and other information to convince others I'm right, or at least on the right track. You should try that method, just for the goof, and see how it works out for ya sometime.

As far as my frequent appearances in this thread, I stop by to point out the the incongruous and just plain silly theories brought up by rigtards. I'm kind of mean that way, but it's kind of funny sometimes - or so I hope.

Generally how it works is this: Some guy comes here and says "it's got to be rigged!" I say, sure, it could be, and if you show me it is, I'll stop playing immediately. About that point, the newly-minted rigtard starts throwing around insults like "you've got no life," "you must be a shill," or just sad stuff like "you prove it's NOT rigged." Then I set forth to using their own words to make a solid argument indicating the rigtard is not terribly clever and often emotionally unstable. Hilarity at their expense ensues and we all laugh 'til our bellies ache. Luckily, there always seems to be a new victim waiting to jump in the fray.
Quote:
I find quite unusual your admin methodology Markus. You worry about people who actually came here to write about the subject of the thread, but you got nothing to say about people like qpw and others who rants, personally attacks users that write actually about the subject of the thread and makes impossible having a conversation about the subject of the thread, just because they think it is an irrational topic.
Dozens of posts by qpw, spadebidder and others provide many more reasons to believe there is not tampering with the RNG which somehow helps or hurts poker players at the whim of the poker sites. If you feel their responses are discourteous, please consider their point of view: they've spent time and effort collecting, analyzing and reporting data, only to have the Rigtard du Jour ignore facts in favor of "feelings" and calling anyone who doesn't agree with their belief system names, while ignoring common sense and logic, along with reasonable requests for mature responses to discuss the topic rationally and scientifically. That can make anyone a little irritable.
Quote:
Ok, take care.
you too. maybe after your snack you can answer my question - what exactly are you hoping to accomplish with your continued ranting and arguing? as I pointed out, if you just wanted to tell us how you felt, you did it. since you keep reminding us of your viewpoint, one can only surmise that you are trying to convince folks you're right and they're wrong. but I'm still not sure why you care if some strangers on the internet are wrong and pumping THEIR money into poker sites that you don't feel are trustworthy.

Live and let live, ya know?

Also, no one has any comments regarding the revelation that Rounding4Rent (funny name for an avowed Rigtard, eh?) = stephenmeares?
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:06 PM   #6106
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
Also, no one has any comments regarding the revelation that Rounding4Rent (funny name for an avowed Rigtard, eh?) = stephenmeares?
Well, nice to know but I wonder how many other gimmick accounts he's got.

Also, this must be the only forum where banned posters can come back, make new accounts, carry on as they were before and not get banned*.

OTOH, at least we now know who we're dealing with.




On the plus side, this is the only thread I know anywhere where I can call a dickhead a dickhead without getting banned.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:06 PM   #6107
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
is this true that Stars haven't been audited since 2003?
Is it true that you are under investigation by the FBI as a suspected multiple rapist?
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:14 PM   #6108
lenasrokas
adept
 
lenasrokas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Last Train To Grindland
Posts: 1,184
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Is it true that you are under investigation by the FBI as a suspected multiple rapist?
since when you know about that i'm suspected multiple rapist? i guess you were one of my victims, i luw lil boys with big mouths.
lenasrokas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:20 PM   #6109
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas View Post
since when you know about that i'm suspected multiple rapist? i guess you were one of my victims, i luw lil boys with big mouths.
I'll take that as a 'yes', then.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:30 PM   #6110
lenasrokas
adept
 
lenasrokas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Last Train To Grindland
Posts: 1,184
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

oh, nevermind. i send an e-mail to stars support.

oh, and yes i luw how none of shillz answer to my question except qpqpapa (whatever his nickname is) throws some insult. classy.
lenasrokas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:54 PM   #6111
K13
banned
 
K13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 531
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post

I have frequently made posts about the nitty gritty of why rigging would be very difficult for a site to do.

.
Why? You must have never taken any computer programming.

It would be beyond easy.
K13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:22 PM   #6112
Monteroy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,097
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
maybe after your snack you can answer my question - what exactly are you hoping to accomplish with your continued ranting and arguing?
I think the guy is in the "thought experiment" category. Maybe he was the thought experiment guy, I am beginning to confuse them ( I assumed he was mafia/ guy and maybe entropy guy)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
Also, no one has any comments regarding the revelation that Rounding4Rent (funny name for an avowed Rigtard, eh?) = stephenmeares?
I feel strange asking this, but I don't really remember that guy either :O. You guys mention him a lot, and I suspect I probably even responded to his posts whenever they were made, but I tend to remember riggedologists by their belief types instead of their user names (ie: mafia guy, entropy guy, $20k wager hillbilly guy etc.), so a small reminder would help
Monteroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:37 PM   #6113
jagnje
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 60
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post

Then you have to show why your proposed scheme would not be easily detectable using available hand histories.

This doesn't even address any technical hurdles, or the problem of maintaining secrecy. I know you think those are trivial, but they aren't. Perhaps you can address them once you have devised a plausible scheme.
First of all, why should a lot of people know about rigging. For all I know, programming the code of shuffling isn't terribly complicated. One even doesn't need to be a trained programmer to do it.

EDIT: Look two posts below for explanation, I didn't really write here what I meant.

You said that rigging has sense only if the site increase rake. If you give more pots to the fish, you increase rake considerably.

Anyway, I wanted to contact you, because you said you are working on database analyzer. Is it ready already? If you'd like, I can send you my database and you look it up.

I noticed that I get a lot of good hands when I fold my hand. Will your software check for such anomalities?

Is here anybody else who has a system to check limit holdem fairness of deal?

Last edited by jagnje; 07-06-2009 at 05:01 PM.
jagnje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:46 PM   #6114
jagnje
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 60
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

qpw, can I ask you, did you believe that on some sites a thing like "superaccount" exists? did your view on online poker changed in any way when sites acknowledged the existence of superaccounts? do you think that they would acknowledge that if there weren't any pressure and evidence?

And ok, let's assume that the burden of proof is on players (I still deny that). How come that in multibillion industry there is no official way to test hand history database against anomalities?
jagnje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:59 PM   #6115
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
I feel strange asking this, but I don't really remember that guy either ... so a small reminder would help
You should be ashamed of yourself. You call yourself a shill?

(to be fair, all of stephenmeare's posts have been deleted, but quotes are still intact.)

Last edited by Markusgc; 07-06-2009 at 05:19 PM.
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:59 PM   #6116
jagnje
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 60
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

btw I am not implying that programming of the rigging is easy. I am implying that that particular part of code (if the games are fair) is pretty straightforward. To replace it with rigged code, you don't even have to tell the other programmers. You just need to find 1 crooked programmer who does the dirty job and gets paid seven figures to keep the mouth shut.

The comparision with Madoff case is straight on. Indeed, in that case, a lot of people had to know what is going on and the scam went on for decades. Even more, the regulatory institutions were warned about Madoff and they did nothing. They didn't even audit him.
jagnje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:15 PM   #6117
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagnje View Post
The comparision with Madoff case is straight on. Indeed, in that case, a lot of people had to know what is going on and the scam went on for decades. Even more, the regulatory institutions were warned about Madoff and they did nothing. They didn't even audit him.
however, when they did investigate, EVIDENCE was turned up which convicted him.

ya see, in this country you can't just go around saying people are committing illegal acts. the justice system we use is based on the ideal that parties are innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not saying every poker site is definitely innocent. But they're not guilty based on somebody's theory.
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:19 PM   #6118
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagnje View Post
qpw, can I ask you, did you believe that on some sites a thing like "superaccount" exists? did your view on online poker changed in any way when sites acknowledged the existence of superaccounts? do you think that they would acknowledge that if there weren't any pressure and evidence?
I'm quite certain that superuser accounts exist. You can't have a computer system without superuser accounts (by whatever name). What privileges those accounts have would vary according to what was specified by the site or what the programmer thought necessary. It would certainly not be necessary to be able to see any cards on a real time basis but that does not mean that such a facility was not incorporated either through incompetence or malicious intent.

Quote:
And ok, let's assume that the burden of proof is on players
No, no, no - you've got it wrong [b]again[/]b]. The burden of proof is not on the players it's on anyone accusing the sites of criminal activity.

That is the way with EVERY OTHER CRIME on the book and there is no reason why it should be any different for poker.

Quote:
How come that in multibillion industry there is no official way to test hand history database against anomalities?
There are plenty of ways (I don't know what you mean by 'official' and I doubt you do either). If I truly believed I had spotted an anomaly I would know exactly how to program to detect it.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:23 PM   #6119
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

from the real deal site:



...and waiting, and waiting, and waiting...
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:24 PM   #6120
jagnje
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 60
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
however, when they did investigate, EVIDENCE was turned up which convicted him.
sure, but the scam lasted for decades during which nobody actually bothered to look into.
jagnje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:25 PM   #6121
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagnje View Post
btw I am not implying that programming of the rigging is easy. I am implying that that particular part of code (if the games are fair) is pretty straightforward. To replace it with rigged code, you don't even have to tell the other programmers. You just need to find 1 crooked programmer who does the dirty job and gets paid seven figures to keep the mouth shut.
How many times do I have to say this.

The minute you rig the code so that anyone can notice a benefit you will have the people who were cheated noticing the reverse.

A fair number of those people will not be hopeless rigtards but well qualified analysts and programmers who would immediately start to analyse their HH's and publically available databases and start screaming the results from the hilltops (assuming wrongdoing was found).

It would be as different to what the sad, deluded, rigtards, do at the moment as tornado is to a summer breeze.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:28 PM   #6122
NFuego20
Pooh-Bah
 
NFuego20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 4,295
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagnje View Post
qpw, can I ask you, did you believe that on some sites a thing like "superaccount" exists? did your view on online poker changed in any way when sites acknowledged the existence of superaccounts? do you think that they would acknowledge that if there weren't any pressure and evidence?

And ok, let's assume that the burden of proof is on players (I still deny that). How come that in multibillion industry there is no official way to test hand history database against anomalities?
Well in regard to "superaccounts", if you suspect any player of being such a thing you could pretty easily find that player's results online.
NFuego20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:29 PM   #6123
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagnje View Post
sure, but the scam lasted for decades during which nobody actually bothered to look into.
well, here's your chance to be a hero. all you have to do is look into this phenomenon and when you have something let us know.

on a related note, it took a long time to catch the Green River Killer too. do you think the Seattle cops should've jailed anyone mentioned by anybody as possible suspects?

come to think of it, I think you're probably in Al Quaeda. I'm calling Homeland Security now...
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:32 PM   #6124
jagnje
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 60
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
I'm quite certain that superuser accounts exist. You can't have a computer system without superuser accounts (by whatever name). What privileges those accounts have would vary according to what was specified by the site or what the programmer thought necessary. It would certainly not be necessary to be able to see any cards on a real time basis but that does not mean that such a facility was not incorporated either through incompetence or malicious intent.

There are plenty of ways (I don't know what you mean by 'official' and I doubt you do either). If I truly believed I had spotted an anomaly I would know exactly how to program to detect it.
That facility was incorporated. The sites acknowledged it. It was abused. That's 100% true. What else is there to say?

No, of course I don't know what is official, because test of the official kind don't exist. If this anomaly is "bad cards", how do I detect it? If I suspect that the fish are given good cards, how do I code for that? And see, here is the problem, does one need to be a programmer to do it? I am a programmer and I have troubles of dealing with this situation, whereas the majority of poker players are unable to code hello world, let alone to discover anomalities in large datasets.
jagnje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:33 PM   #6125
Stars
enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 98
Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance

Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
Pokerstars was last audited in 2003 by BBM International and cigital did an audit at some point also.

www.bmm.com.au

http://www.cigital.com/about/contact.php

Bodog was last audited in 2005 and if you ask they will direct you here if you ask what has audited it since then... a bodog sponsored blog...


http://wizardofodds.com/

Bodog and pokerstars are granted licenses from

http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommission/
http://translate.google.com/translat...N%26start%3D10

The second link there includes a phone number to the kahnawake, who is off today due to the holiday in Canada.

"Morris Mohawk Gaming Group

Morris Mohawk Gaming Group (MMGG) is the exclusive licensee of the Bodog brand for online gaming services in North America and is led by Alwyn Morris, Olympic gold medalist, Order of Canada recipient, noted Canadian sportsman, First Nations leader and former Associate Director for the Mohawk Council of Chiefs in Kahnawake.

MMGG is located in the Mohawk Territory of Kahnawake – part of the seven communities that make up the Mohawk Nation - just outside Montreal, Quebec, Canada, and is licensed by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission to offer gaming services from Kahnawake to users worldwide. The Antiguan-based Bodog has entered into a licensing agreement with MMGG to allow this group to use various elements of the Bodog brand within North America to support MMGG’s marketing activities. For more information, visit www.morrismohawk.com."

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...oker-scam.html

That is a discussion of the 'absolute poker' scam.

See if you find any similarities and ask yourselves how many times the software has been updated since the audit.

Stars
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Stars

Find More Posts by Stars

Find Threads Started by Stars

Add Stars to Your Contacts

Today, 01:49 PM #2

phishman420
grinder



Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: athens, ga
Posts: 517 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________1st

phishman420
View Public Profile

Send a private message to phishman420

Find More Posts by phishman420

Find Threads Started by phishman420

Add phishman420 to Your Contacts

Today, 01:49 PM #3

Zacharrrr
old hand



Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: balling in my lego house
Posts: 1,901 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by phishman420
1st
congrats. i hope im last to post itt

Zacharrrr
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Zacharrrr

Send email to Zacharrrr

Find More Posts by Zacharrrr

Find Threads Started by Zacharrrr

Add Zacharrrr to Your Contacts

Today, 01:50 PM #4

Stars
enthusiast

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 73 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________What do you guys think.

Stars
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Stars

Find More Posts by Stars

Find Threads Started by Stars

Add Stars to Your Contacts

Today, 01:55 PM #5

Rictus
centurion

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 150 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________In before rogged.

Rictus
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Rictus

Find More Posts by Rictus

Find Threads Started by Rictus

Add Rictus to Your Contacts

Today, 02:02 PM #6

Stars
enthusiast

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 73 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
"©1998-2006 Wizard Of Odds Consulting, Inc. All rights reserved."

I'm assuming that means the last 'wizard of Odds' audit was 2006.

Morris Mohawk Gaming Group
Tel: 450-633-5100
Fax: 450-633-0601
Careers: careers@morrismohawk.ca
Public Relations: pr@morrismohawk.ca


Stars
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Stars

Find More Posts by Stars

Find Threads Started by Stars

Add Stars to Your Contacts

Today, 02:03 PM #7

macgyverlol
journeyman



Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 288 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________Why fix what's not broken?

macgyverlol
View Public Profile

Send a private message to macgyverlol

Find More Posts by macgyverlol

Find Threads Started by macgyverlol

Add macgyverlol to Your Contacts

Today, 02:05 PM #8

lenasrokas
centurion



Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: you feel lucky
Posts: 134 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
in before poker rooms wouldn't cheat their costumers to make extra buck or hold fishes in room for extra day, because they already make $$$MILLIONS$$$ a day!

lenasrokas
View Public Profile

Send a private message to lenasrokas

Send email to lenasrokas

Find More Posts by lenasrokas

Find Threads Started by lenasrokas

Add lenasrokas to Your Contacts

Today, 02:09 PM #9

Stars
enthusiast

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 73 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
This post is for your info, i'm not asking what someone would do, neither you nor I know that unless you work on the isle of man. Take it for what it is worth. Bernie Madoff would never have done what he did either, according to thousands of people pre-2008.

Book sales are up because of the popularity of online poker so i always take what people say on here with a grain of salt. Decide for yourselves.

"In addition, in 1997 www.twoplustwo.com, with the help of another gambling publishing/Internet company, ConJelCo.com was established. At first, the Two Plus Two website was only one small forum with a few participants. But as time went on it has grown into the largest poker website of its kind with 76 forums (including forums in French and German), the Two Plus Two Internet Magazine, and most recently, the Two Plus Two Pokercast. Plus more is on the way.

Lastly, we come to the Two Plus Two Store which was added at the beginning of 2008 and which can be found at www.twoplustwostore.com This site is administered by Professionalpoker.com who has been working closely with Two Plus Two since 2003. The store allows anyone, no matter what their location worldwide, to order Two Plus Two books not only at a substantial discount, but in a fast and reliable manner."

http://www.twoplustwo.com/about/ "

"ConJelCo is a gambling book and software publishing company specializing in products for serious gamblers.

This page contains information on our products as well as links to retail ordering information. If you are a bookseller or other wholesale purchaser please visit our wholesale information page.

Along with complete information about the products which ConJelCo sells, you'll find lots of other items of interest to the serious gambler.

http://www.conjelco.com/ "


Stars
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Stars

Find More Posts by Stars

Find Threads Started by Stars

Add Stars to Your Contacts

Today, 02:12 PM #10

Stars
enthusiast

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 73 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
For example, why would anyone commit any crime type logic doesn't hold up in court. Not saying it is a scam, just looks like there hasn't been an audit.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/

That's where pokerstars references these companies (with no year next to when these evaluations were done).

Would you eat a 6 year old apple if it looked ok on the outside?

Stars
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Stars

Find More Posts by Stars

Find Threads Started by Stars

Add Stars to Your Contacts

Today, 02:17 PM #11

Stars
enthusiast

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 73 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
At the bottom of http://www.conjelco.com/ you'll see that site is powered by Professionalpoker.com. Another book site.

"Professionalpoker.com has been doing business on eBay since 1997 specializing in poker and gambling books and videos. We have built up a great reputation for delivering excellent material at great prices. We do this by providing quick order turnaround, excellent customer service and great prices. This is proven by our frequent repeat business and customer feedback which has is near 100% positive.

Please see my EBAY feedback page:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...fessionalpoker

Our primary edge is B-Stock items. These are unused/unread books that are either shipping dinged/shelf worn store returns, overstocks, or factory seconds with minor printing flaws that do not impair the readability of the book. All software and videos are brand new in their sealed cases unless otherwise stated in the listing."

http://www.professionalpoker.com/page.php?page=aboutUs

Here is the kicker though, if you want an incentive take a look below.

"A slight revenues decline for the third quarter was reported on Wednesday 19th Nov by online gaming company PartyGaming, reflecting the effects of a sharp rise in the U.S dollar.


The report reveals lower revenue of $117.7 million for the third quarter compared with $118.0 million from a year ago period. Net revenue per day was $1.279 million, marginally lower than $1.282 million from a period a year ago.


The US dollar has had an apparent ''adverse'' impact on revenues yet benefited costs incurred in Euros and Sterling.


Ultimately Poker is the main sales generator. Its revenues fell contrasting a strong growth in casino, sports betting and Bingo. Poker revenues decreased 15% from $76.3 million the previous year to $65.0 million, due primarily to reduction of unique players and their frequency of play.


PartyPoker claims that poker trading in the period was affected ''adversely'' by their new loyalty programme. It claims that unplanned downtime in august and planned downtime for the launch of the next generation of PartyPoker affected poker revenues.


Contrastively Casino revenues rose due to new games like Top Gun and The Godfather which increased player yields by 22%. Revenues rose from $36.7 million in the previous year to $45.9.


Contrastively due to increased betting volumes, sports betting revenue increased by 19%. Several new features were introduced at the end of September to PartyBets.com expecting to improve future revenue performance.


Contrastively driven by the success of ITV Bingo, the groups bingo white label in the UK, Bingo revenues grew 143% from $0.7 million last year to $1.7 million."

http://www.onlinepoker-news.com/2008...poker_ihf.aspx


Stars
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Stars

Find More Posts by Stars

Find Threads Started by Stars

Add Stars to Your Contacts

Today, 02:21 PM #12

Green_29
adept



Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: suicide watch
Posts: 856 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lenasrokas
in before poker rooms wouldn't cheat their costumers to make extra buck or hold fishes in room for extra day, because they already make $$$MILLIONS$$$ a day!
lol business does not work like that. I would be surprised if there was a poker site that wasn't rigged in some way.

Green_29
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Green_29

Find More Posts by Green_29

Find Threads Started by Green_29

Add Green_29 to Your Contacts

Today, 02:24 PM #13

AnfieldRoad
adept



Join Date: May 2009
Location: in threads worth my time and effort
Posts: 1,125 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
I'm sticking to the mantra:

Guys who think online poker is rigged are largely the reason why poker is profitable.
Guys who think online poker is rigged are largely the reason why poker is profitable.
Guys who think online poker is rigged are largely the reason why poker is profitable.
Guys who think online poker is rigged are largely the reason why poker is profitable.
Guys who think online poker is rigged are largely the reason why poker is profitable.
Guys who think online poker is rigged are largely the reason why poker is profitable.
Guys who think online poker is rigged are largely the reason why poker is profitable.

AnfieldRoad
View Public Profile

Send a private message to AnfieldRoad

Find More Posts by AnfieldRoad

Find Threads Started by AnfieldRoad

Add AnfieldRoad to Your Contacts

Today, 02:24 PM #14

Stars
enthusiast

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 73 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
If you want to play psych doctor on why a madoff would do something you can, or why a saint wouldn't do something enjoy that too... obviously we can only look at the evidence before us (or in the past as in the case of these rng's).

Anyone can inquire yourselves about the information posted here.

Stars
View Public Profile

Send a private message to Stars

Find More Posts by Stars

Find Threads Started by Stars

Add Stars to Your Contacts

Today, 02:26 PM #15

Stars
enthusiast

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 74 Re: Pokerstars last rng 'limted audit' was 2003, Bodog 2005/blog backed compliance
________________________________________
Also there are now 13 replies to this thread, yet the number of views has remained the same. Have a great day people.
Stars is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive