Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2009, 11:57 PM   #6001
kombatarts99
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 219
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

It's interesting to note that the top 100 players don't have these rigged issues. You don't see Lars complaining he lost 3 million because Dwan and everyone else cheated or FTP is rigged. If it was rigged, they would be the first ones to say something.
kombatarts99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2009, 11:59 PM   #6002
Rounding4Rent
journeyman
 
Rounding4Rent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 234
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
If it was rigged, they would be the first ones to say something.
Right, and you know them personally?

As long as the pro's continue to play on these sites, I trust them (sarcasm).

BTW, there are a few well-named pro's who have indicated they thought OP was rigged.
Rounding4Rent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 12:01 AM   #6003
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,131
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Right, and you know them personally?

As long as the pro's continue to play on these sites, I trust them (sarcasm).

BTW, there are a few well-named pro's who have indicated they thought OP was rigged.
Only the ones who suck.
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 12:02 AM   #6004
Rounding4Rent
journeyman
 
Rounding4Rent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 234
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Only the ones who suck
OK, so back to square one - you believe online poker is not rigged. Good input
Rounding4Rent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 12:14 AM   #6005
NFuego20
Pooh-Bah
 
NFuego20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 4,295
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Rigged
dumb
NFuego20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 12:20 AM   #6006
Rounding4Rent
journeyman
 
Rounding4Rent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 234
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

An interesting read I found:

Cryptologic are one of the biggest online poker Software suppliers and there is great speculation as to their fraudulent activities

http://cryptologicmafia.com/

A lot of information on this website speculates organized crime is heavily involved with online gaming (which I assumed myself without reading this website). There is also documented proof of past fraudulent activity from this company.

Cryptologic Inc. owns Intercasino.com at 85% and Intercasino.com is run by the criminal and wanted fugitive Mafia man Bill Scott who financed Cryptologic Inc. with heroin money he laundered at Cryptologic Inc.
Rounding4Rent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 12:21 AM   #6007
Arouet
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Arouet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,433
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
OK, so back to square one - you believe online poker is not rigged. Good input
Rounding, perhaps some of these guys could be more polite, but don't let that distract you from their point. The fact is, there has been a lot of evidence in this thread favouring that online poker is not rigged. As far as I can recall, no one has challenged any of that evidence in this thread in any serious manner.

Meanwhile, every time someone has brought up a potential rigging scheme, there have been numerous arguments talking about why that would not be practical.

The fact is, there is a tremendous amount of data that we can collect individually. Anyone with HEM or pokertracker has a very good starting point. As spade has pointed out, I believe, they can point you in the right direction. I'm sure if you post stats, etc. and talk about your sample size, the stat guys can tell you how confident you can be in your numbers (ie: to what degree of error). If you don't know where to start, I'm sure these guys can help as well. While your personal data will be far from precise, it will give a very good indication. If all the rigtards did the same, you will get more and more samples which will help move towards even more accurate results. Plus, Spade has been working on some things which he's promised to reveal when he's done. He's given some teasers which are quite convincing. Call him a fraud if you want, but make sure to back it up if you do.

Otherwise, we have to rely to some extent on the stat guys like Spade and decide on our own whether his explanations make sense or not. Whether his arguments seem sound.

That would be much better than simply posting that the OP companies are so big and smart that they must have come up with some completely indetectable scheme that also boosts profits. Or just referring to bad beats or other dishonest things that have occured in online poker that have nothing to do with rigging.
Arouet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 12:28 AM   #6008
Rounding4Rent
journeyman
 
Rounding4Rent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 234
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
The fact is, there is a tremendous amount of data that we can collect individually. Anyone with HEM or pokertracker has a very good starting point. As spade has pointed out, I believe, they can point you in the right direction. I'm sure if you post stats, etc. and talk about your sample size, the stat guys can tell you how confident you can be in your numbers (ie: to what degree of error). If you don't know where to start, I'm sure these guys can help as well. While your personal data will be far from precise, it will give a very good indication. If all the rigtards did the same, you will get more and more samples which will help move towards even more accurate results. Plus, Spade has been working on some things which he's promised to reveal when he's done. He's given some teasers which are quite convincing. Call him a fraud if you want, but make sure to back it up if you do.
Do me a favor - please don't talk to me like I don't know what im talking about. I'm not some random guy complaining about a bad beat i've studied this topic thoroughly for about a year now and have researched/discussed each argument in and out.

Also, if you go back about 40-50 pages ( i think ) i posted about 300,000 (maybe more,maybe less.. somewhere around there.) which were collected and analyzed through PT which were WAY under expected value. Do I consider this evidence? No. But just making a point.
Rounding4Rent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 01:04 AM   #6009
senjitsu
banned
 
senjitsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: λαγχάν
Posts: 3,058
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Do I consider this evidence? No. But just making a point.
if its not evidence youre failing to make a point DUCY
senjitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 01:08 AM   #6010
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,131
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
OK, so back to square one - you believe online poker is not rigged. Good input
Can you name a top player who thinks it's rigged?
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:26 AM   #6011
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
OK IM GONNA PUT THIS IN CAPS SO YOU UNDERSTAND:

YOU CALL YOURSELF LOGICAL BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE (KNOW, IYO) THAT ONLINE POKER IS NOT RIGGED
You see this is where you demonstrate to everyone what a complete moron you are.

I've stated time and time and time again that I believe that OLP is very probably not rigged.

I don't know whether or not it is any more than you do.

Quote:
QPW, why name-call?
Because it's the only thing left when people are as cretinous as you.

I've provided logical explanations of why OLP is probably not rigged.

I've explained some of the probability maths necessary to help people understand their so called 'impossible' beats.

I've given a detailed plan of how you could go about checking you own HH against an easily obtainable database to prove any rigging that was there.

And you and the other idiot tendency rigtards just ignore that and come back a couple of days later with the same lame old nonsense.

Quote:
Neither of us has concrete evidence supporting our claims (yet) so as much as you would like to believe you are right - you do not have any evidence !!!
Have you yet provided any evidence that you are not a child molestor?

Can you show us concrete evidence that you have not served time for molesting little children?
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:30 AM   #6012
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
A lot of information on this website speculates organized crime is heavily involved with online gaming (which I assumed myself without reading this website).
If only it were true.

They might send a couple of the lads round to 'have a quiet word' with you.

I expect they'd talk a language you'd understand.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:35 AM   #6013
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Do me a favor - please don't talk to me like I don't know what im talking about.
Why?

You have provided copious amounts of evidence that you haven't the slightest clue about that of which you speak.

Unlike evidence that OLP is rigged of which you have provided not a shred.

Quote:
I'm not some random guy complaining about a bad beat i've studied this topic thoroughly for about a year now and have researched/discussed each argument in and out.
It's just a pity that you do not have the mental capacity to understand your research (or, probably, even formulate it correctly).
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:41 AM   #6014
Rek
HUZA 2008
 
Rek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10,034
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Unlike evidence that OLP is rigged of which you have provided not a shred
Is OLP some kind of dyslexic poker game?
Rek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 03:42 AM   #6015
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rek View Post
Is OLP some kind of dyslexic poker game?
LOLOLOL I hadn't noticed that.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:21 AM   #6016
FeltMeUp
stranger
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 8
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Can you name a top player who thinks it's rigged?
http://twitter.com/TheMouthMatusow/statuses/2151474540
http://www.bankrollboost.com/poker_b...-online-poker/
http://www.bankrollboost.com/poker_b...ng-over-money/
Matusow also mention online poker being rigged on Poker after Dark.
FeltMeUp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:28 AM   #6017
FeltMeUp
stranger
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 8
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

On this weeks first episode of poker after dark Mike Matusow made a comment about how good players never win online. He was talking to Shawn Sheikan about how he and David Benyamine never win playing online poker because they are good players. This is the exactly how the conversation happened:

Mike (to Sheik): me and David never win online, we are like the biggest online jokes that ever walked the earth

Sheik : you know why you guys lose

Mike : because we are good players...and all they do is go click click click and BOOM, it randomly hits a miracle

Sheik : that's alot of common sense you got Mike, good players always lose right?

Mike : good players never win online
FeltMeUp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:37 AM   #6018
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,131
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Mike Matusow is a top player? News to me. When did he start winning in cash games?
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 04:55 AM   #6019
Rek
HUZA 2008
 
Rek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10,034
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeltMeUp View Post
On this weeks first episode of poker after dark Mike Matusow made a comment about how good players never win online. He was talking to Shawn Sheikan about how he and David Benyamine never win playing online poker because they are good players. This is the exactly how the conversation happened:

Mike (to Sheik): me and David never win online, we are like the biggest online jokes that ever walked the earth

Sheik : you know why you guys lose

Mike : because we are good players...and all they do is go click click click and BOOM, it randomly hits a miracle

Sheik : that's alot of common sense you got Mike, good players always lose right?

Mike : good players never win online
Nothing there about being rigged.
Rek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:03 AM   #6020
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeltMeUp View Post
On this weeks first episode of poker after dark Mike Matusow made a comment about how good players never win online. He was talking to Shawn Sheikan about how he and David Benyamine never win playing online poker because they are good players. This is the exactly how the conversation happened:

Mike (to Sheik): me and David never win online, we are like the biggest online jokes that ever walked the earth

Sheik : you know why you guys lose

Mike : because we are good players...and all they do is go click click click and BOOM, it randomly hits a miracle

Sheik : that's alot of common sense you got Mike, good players always lose right?

Mike : good players never win online

This Sheik guy obviously enjoys a spot of sarcasm.

Move to B&M Mike , people will respect your raises there.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:06 AM   #6021
SooperFish24
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,028
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Can you name a top player who thinks it's rigged?
Can you name a top player who isn't affiliated with a top site besides durrrrr?

You don't bite the hand that feed's you and it's probably in their contract's not to say anything negative about their affiliate sites.
SooperFish24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:14 AM   #6022
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Can you name a top player who isn't affiliated with a top site besides durrrrr?

You don't bite the hand that feed's you and it's probably in their contract's not to say anything negative about their affiliate sites.
Yeah, that would be the reason.

It couldn't possibly be that the top players, actually having some ability to play poker, don't exhibit the self indulgent paranoia that poor players who do not want to take responsibility for their own failure are so fond of.

Supperbowl, if you spent half as much time learning probability maths as you do whining like a little girl on this forum, you might actually find that you start winning a little and the 'rigging' goes away.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:16 AM   #6023
Josem
human chemical weapon
 
Josem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Getting Trolled
Posts: 17,957
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

You know your argument is in trouble when you quote Mike Matusow as an expert on advanced statistical theory and mathematics.
Josem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:22 AM   #6024
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
You know your argument is in trouble when you quote Mike Matusow as an expert on advanced statistical theory and mathematics.
Rather like appealing to GWB as an expert on the articulate use of English.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2009, 05:27 AM   #6025
Josem
human chemical weapon
 
Josem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Getting Trolled
Posts: 17,957
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Seriously, is Mike Matusow really the most credible authority that online poker is rigged? Really?
Josem is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive