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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

11-27-2012 , 11:49 AM
So does anyone ever wonder how okiehustler is doing?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-27-2012 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
So does anyone ever wonder how okiehustler is doing?
Funny you should say that.

His name caught my eye as I was reading the index a couple of days ago.

He was only here for two days, only made two posts and yet is the OP of one of the longest threads I've seen anywhere.

Of course, it was pure chance that he happened to be the OP of the first post selected when TPTB decided to create the containment thread.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-27-2012 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iFold2MinRaise
Destroy expensive electronics multiple times because of tilt in a cheeseburger sit'n go? Creepy.

Make TWO posts about it? Even more creepy.

Repeating how much fun is was, over and over again? Veeery creepy.
I didn't mean my post I meant the user who actually used the search function to find them.

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-27-2012 , 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
I didn't mean my post I meant the user who actually used the search function to find them.
Yes you meant that. They meant your posts. Ha!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-27-2012 , 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKarne
I should also note that there is a lot of site rep spam against them also
You are aware that just because a few posters say someone is a shill, it doesn't make it true, right? If there's a lot of site rep spam, please be sharing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKarne
plus a few 2+2 moderators jump on one whenever it's about a site that 2+2 itself supports
This stuff gets real tiresome - care to provide some actual links?

We get plenty of threads critical of advertisers, and as long as they're respectful and not obviously false, they're allowed to stand. Same policy holds for sites that advertise with us, and those that don't. But I know the thought that 2+2 suppresses criticism of advertisers fits into the world view of a few, so they'll trot this out without anything to back it up with.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-27-2012 , 05:31 PM
@ Mkarne, solid post + 1
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-27-2012 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog
I got through about three lines of this incoherent wall of jiberish then I punched myself in the face to ease the pain.
Thirded. I then jumped out of a three-story building and crashed down on a mattress truck. Who knew they still roam city blocks?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-27-2012 , 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKarne
If the poker sites are interested to prove that they are not rigged, they would give us the data. And what data we need had been somewhat talked about elsewhere (also). But there has been no efforts to that direction, just some private people have looked into some data but they have already decided that the RNG is rigged (I too think it is but I am not sure of how unfair it is). The only things we do really have are the tracking softwares that give some EV adjusted scores (that are real and not) and then some tracking sites where one can look into results of many players, and I add also what the more experienced online players say (in case they have balls to post, and I should also note that there is a lot of site rep spam against them also - saying stuffs like there being a lack of proof like that would be the only thing in the world as there is no easy way or at all a way for about anyone to prove it at this time - plus a few 2+2 moderators jump on one whenever it's about a site that 2+2 itself supports - these things stink and you can go and look at some other places other than 2+2 and you will see things much more negative than here, and most people here are not all that much smarter and I am not sure the nerds are smart at all as they see only some separate details and might be actually blind), has some value also as they can see pretty fast also of how the cards are running at this and that site and I recommend not to underestimate that input (it being like an expert opinion vs. the absolute truth and we really do see how the cards are running and it has nothing to do with luck or selective memory as we see the same things again and again and they happen only at one network and if there would be a test to see what cards are from what site/network we would be able to tell without seeing from what site the cards are from, e.g. there is a bias at iPoker when it comes to a turn raise and some related things where it's next to 100% that the weaker hand sucks out when it should do so only maybe some next to 30% of the time on average and no one but some rare people are aware of that and it's not public knowledge though even next to blind should see it and those who know, adjust to it) especially as long as we do not have the results tracked well to see if the RNG is fair or not; till then we have only what we have.
wow. That's one big sentence you got there bro.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 03:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by subs
so then why have none of them posted their database that shows this?
There would be databases to show it if PT4 and HEM didn't rig them to self-destruct because they're secretly in cahoots with all the online poker sites (which is why they aren't banned). Think about it.






this is a level
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKarne
If the poker sites are interested to prove that they are not rigged, they would give us the data. And what data we need had been somewhat talked about elsewhere (also). But there has been no efforts to that direction, just some private people have looked into some data but they have already decided that the RNG is rigged (I too think it is but I am not sure of how unfair it is). The only things we do really have are the tracking softwares that give some EV adjusted scores (that are real and not) and then some tracking sites where one can look into results of many players, and I add also what the more experienced online players say (in case they have balls to post, and I should also note that there is a lot of site rep spam against them also - saying stuffs like there being a lack of proof like that would be the only thing in the world as there is no easy way or at all a way for about anyone to prove it at this time - plus a few 2+2 moderators jump on one whenever it's about a site that 2+2 itself supports - these things stink and you can go and look at some other places other than 2+2 and you will see things much more negative than here, and most people here are not all that much smarter and I am not sure the nerds are smart at all as they see only some separate details and might be actually blind), has some value also as they can see pretty fast also of how the cards are running at this and that site and I recommend not to underestimate that input (it being like an expert opinion vs. the absolute truth and we really do see how the cards are running and it has nothing to do with luck or selective memory as we see the same things again and again and they happen only at one network and if there would be a test to see what cards are from what site/network we would be able to tell without seeing from what site the cards are from, e.g. there is a bias at iPoker when it comes to a turn raise and some related things where it's next to 100% that the weaker hand sucks out when it should do so only maybe some next to 30% of the time on average and no one but some rare people are aware of that and it's not public knowledge though even next to blind should see it and those who know, adjust to it) especially as long as we do not have the results tracked well to see if the RNG is fair or not; till then we have only what we have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidstar-poker
wow. That's one big sentence you got there bro.
There are some steps to see. First of all, there is often a beginning Boom for new players and for people with a long experience with online poker, they know it for sure. Then the thing is to think if it's in the code, or if there are inside bots, inside player, insiders manipulating the cards in favor of the new player, and in most cases it's in the code. Okay, then you know the cards are not random. Additionally, you might see booming players. Then what is common sooner or later is that one often soon finds one playing break even even in good games and that too can be seen though it doesn't mean other than the boom is over until one can see that one should be still winning, e.g. the games are good, one gets constant extra bad beats, and the balancing system is also a usual phenomenon online. Then the cards are also more or less juiced, that they usually were not in the past. The reason for juiced cards is to increase rake but it can intentionally or not serve other things also, like one loses feel when one e.g. loses or wins every hand, and it's easy to beat some nits and passive players with real cards as it's so visible and it's also easy to beat aggression and loose players as the only thin one needs is to get a good enough hand, but it's less good if it gets sucked out more often than usual, and in such games one needs to adjust and be more aggressive as so one has the dog hand more often and for that reason on this point tight passive play is sort of the worst style.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 11-28-2012 at 08:06 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 05:02 AM
First off, I just want to say that I am a winning poker player and not someone who is just angry because they suffered a few bad beats.

I go to college in Oklahoma and have been making my income (few thousand a month) playing poker both online and at Riverwind casino. I get as much time in playing brick and mortar as possible, but obviously playing online is far more convenient. My only issue is that it is blatantly obvious it is rigged for action. I don't care who you are, if you have played thousands of hands online you can see it clear as day. The purpose of this thread isn't to argue or complain about it being rigged, but to ask for advice on where I should play that the software doesn't seem blatantly rigged? I'm currently playing on Bovada, and I've only been able to turn a $1,000 profit over the last two months. I know that isn't a bad thing whatsoever, but I feel as if my skills I've worked hard to learn from both experience and reading are being wasted by all the bad beats and runner runner suck outs. I've dabbled with carbon and lock, but not really enough to speak on how rigged it seems. If you have experience with a wide variety of platforms, please give me your opinion on what you think is the best option.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 05:28 AM
They are all rigged imo. I play PLO on Stars and yesterday i lost 5 BIs when i was ahead like 70-30 in all of them just because the day before yesterday i won 5 BIs when i was also ahead 70-30. It seems that whatever you win one day you have to give it back the next no matter how you play.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevdoro
They are all rigged imo. I play PLO on Stars and yesterday i lost 5 BIs when i was ahead like 70-30 in all of them just because the day before yesterday i won 5 BIs when i was also ahead 70-30. It seems that whatever you win one day you have to give it back the next no matter how you play.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I keep wanting to blame variance, but then I go play live and it isn't even close to the same.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by THREEB3T
Couldn't have said it better myself. I keep wanting to blame variance, but then I go play live and it isn't even close to the same.
Why you mad just because you got a few bad beat?

You dont sound like winning player. Winning player dont get mad just because he got the bad beat. He know it part of the game.

You sound like a loser. Loser get mad just because he get the bad beat. He too weak mind just like you.

Id suggest you stay in casino. There you can play drunk postal worker soccer mom and retired horse breeder. You weak mind wont be exploited like online when you get the bad beat.

Last edited by 5thStreetHog; 11-28-2012 at 09:13 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevdoro
They are all rigged imo. I play PLO on Stars and yesterday i lost 5 BIs when i was ahead like 70-30 in all of them just because the day before yesterday i won 5 BIs when i was also ahead 70-30. It seems that whatever you win one day you have to give it back the next no matter how you play.


Why you play the next day you big dummy?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by THREEB3T
My only issue is that it is blatantly obvious it is rigged for action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKarne
Then the cards are also more or less juiced, that they usually were not in the past. The reason for juiced cards is to increase rake
I don't think anyone has ever been able to show how action cards will increase rake for the site, that's a myth. I've seen many credible explanations of how it actually would decrease overall rake to the site. Hint: max rake in one hand does not mean more total rake over time.

A site, even a crooked one, has no motivation to do this. The way to maximize rake is with lots of smaller pots going back and forth until everyone breaks even. Then the site eventually gets all the money.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevdoro
They are all rigged imo. It seems that whatever you win one day you have to give it back the next no matter how you play.
Correct.

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
I don't think anyone has ever been able to show how action cards will increase rake for the site, that's a myth. I've seen many credible explanations of how it actually would decrease overall rake to the site. Hint: max rake in one hand does not mean more total rake over time.
This is wrong as Pokerstars rakes more from(150%)multi player pots and rake can be capped pre above is pure conjecture. Pokerstars has every incentive to distribute more "action" hands.If this is done even at 1% frequency above a std deviation the gross rake for a site is Exponential.
Rake is the business, I can increase gross revenue by 150% jaw drops from CEO next question is HOW.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnE OuT On RiVeR
This is wrong as Pokerstars rakes more from multi player pots and rake can be capped pre above is pure conjecture. Pokerstars has every incentive to distribute more "action" hands.If this is done even at 1% frequency above a std deviation the gross rake for a site is Exponential.
Rake is the business.
It's not nearly that simple. Players have limited money to lose per time unit, and there is also a complex web of incentives that determine if someone redeposits or stays on the site, whether lots of legit winning players encourages more to join, whether busting someone makes them play less (e.g. quit for the day) etc. etc. It's also been shown in this thread that big pot hands will likely tend to decrease rake even in the shorter term. Instead of just spouting the action hand line, do some modeling and some math and see for yourself, and search for the detailed explanations that have been posted before.

I believe it's also been shown in very large databases that Stars flops fall randomly, exactly the expected distribution.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
It's not nearly that simple. Players have limited money to lose per time unit, and there is also a complex web of incentives that determine if someone redeposits or stays on the site, whether lots of legit winning players encourages more to join, whether busting someone makes them play less (e.g. quit for the day) etc. etc. It's also been shown in this thread that big pot hands will likely tend to decrease rake even in the shorter term. Instead of just spouting the action hand line, do some modeling and some math and see for yourself, and search for the detailed explanations that have been posted before.

I believe it's also been shown in very large databases that Stars flops fall randomly, exactly the expected distribution.
Of course its simple Pokerstars has whole departments analyzing your play and data.A Random distribution has nothing to do with the topic in hand but even a skew at the slightest frequency=more money for stars.
Pokerstars are a business right or did the founder just decide he did not want to make billions just open a site break US laws just to serve the players and for the good of poker.
The tests conducted do not cover the said variarbles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THREEB3T
I was hoping you would be able to figure out what I meant by bad beat using context clues. Eg, Jackpot, Quads over Quads. I don't mean your typical AA gets sucked out on, boohoo there was a 20 percent chance anyways. What I mean is cracked quads or better.
Do not let this poster(JohnCleese) try and goad you.All the posts from this primate are waste nothing constructive or informative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Can you explain that bolded sentence and show your workings for me? Thanks
No thanks self explanatory work/find out for yourself.Show me your winnings show me your workings!

Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
Way to back up your claims, champ.
The onus is on you monsieur to disprove any "claims" you think I state.

The primates are out in force rise up!Nice try what "claims" am I making that you disagree with so much. Pokerstars rakes 150% more rake when 3-4 players are in a pot
look it up.If The disribution pre/post was skewed in favour lets dumb down here of the house they do not benefit?Break it up and dismantle your logic.
Lets see your logical response but I made it up right. RIGHT TURN CLYDE.

I really feel for you.My lady has a fat friend you interested?please do not stalk her and as for me I am 100% hetro as flattering as your stalking goes but its a no no from me.Pm me If women interest you you have good traits like determination, attention to detail, if you earn a good wage and will stop posting weird **** on forums I got the hook up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog
Although in the real world this is obviously absurd.
Are you for real WTF are you trying to say in your post primate?

Anyone who does not agree with what is put forth they will give good reason(counter ) as to why or suggest alternatives.I am not flaking the questions you ask me, Conversely I have already put forth my reason.
THE ONUS IS ON YOU clear enough?.

Your ramble is nothing but babble to judge all who post here and a refuge for idiots this a bold statement but then I wont judge your ignorance on one post..but onwards and upwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
You know that calling people a primate is not actually an insult, right? We're all primates. You're basically calling him "human".
Depends on what scale do you think its an insult.
There is your answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog
Exactly! Thank you!

You are illustrating my point.

In the real world of thinking people that statement would not even remotely considered bold. But yet in this magical land of booger trees and idiocy that statement was controversial and instantly rebuked by a native.
Just like hitlers mein kamp yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog
Actually, I think you thought that "primates" didn't include "humans".
Know you know what I think right do you use this Jedi mind trick often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
There's no shame in admitting that you didn't know that humans were primates. I think a lot of people make that mistake.

Also nice Godwinning 21 posts in!
If that was the case shame would not be an emotion that I feel when I make mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog
A Hitler comparison, assigning a quote someone made to someone else, and starting a sentence with know you know all in the same post.

You sir are a goldmine and the exact kind of unique treasure that makes this place so special.
You misunderstand yourself and my navigation around a new forum may be special I just call it unfamiliar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Ok, you've got me curious: if you knew that humans were primates then in what way was calling him a primate an insult? Would it have been just as insulting to call him "**** sapien"?
We have jousted enough thankyou for your time.
you have put this forth as an insult not me.

*

Edit/MH: Containment merge. (First needed since blatantlyrigged left us.)

Last edited by Mike Haven; 11-29-2012 at 07:24 AM. Reason: 12 posts merged
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreetHog
Why you mad just because you got a few bad beat?

You dont sound like winning player. Winning player dont get mad just because he got the bad beat. He know it part of the game.

You sound like a loser. Loser get mad just because he get the bad beat. He too weak mind just like you.

Id suggest you stay in casino. There you can play drunk postal worker soccer mom and retired horse breeder. You weak mind wont be exploited like online when you get the bad beat.
Did you not read any of my post? I'm not trying to whine about it whatsoever. It isn't even me the majority of the time either, but I still see how the boards play out. I would just like to play somewhere that closely resembles realistic odds. I've yet to see a bad beat in all of the time I've spent playing live cards, and the jackpot for it hits maybe once a month at riverwind. I've had sessions on bovada where i see quads over quads multiple times in a matter of hours. Maybe I shouldn't use the term rigged, how about realistic.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by THREEB3T
Did you not read any of my post? I'm not trying to whine about it whatsoever. It isn't even me the majority of the time either, but I still see how the boards play out. I would just like to play somewhere that closely resembles realistic odds. I've yet to see a bad beat in all of the time I've spent playing live cards, and the jackpot for it hits maybe once a month at riverwind. I've had sessions on bovada where i see quads over quads multiple times in a matter of hours. Maybe I shouldn't use the term rigged, how about realistic.
In that case the casino you are playing at is rigged.

Are you ill in the head?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCleese
In that case the casino you are playing at is rigged.

Are you ill in the head?
I was hoping you would be able to figure out what I meant by bad beat using context clues. Eg, Jackpot, Quads over Quads. I don't mean your typical AA gets sucked out on, boohoo there was a 20 percent chance anyways. What I mean is cracked quads or better.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevdoro
They are all rigged imo. I play PLO on Stars and yesterday i lost 5 BIs when i was ahead like 70-30 in all of them just because the day before yesterday i won 5 BIs when i was also ahead 70-30. It seems that whatever you win one day you have to give it back the next no matter how you play.
This is the problem with riggies mindsets. When you win more 70/30s than you should, you think nothing of it. When you lose some it is rigged.

What percentage of 70/30s have you won overall? About 70%, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnE OuT On RiVeR
This is wrong as Pokerstars rakes more from(150%)multi player pots and rake can be capped pre above is pure conjecture. Pokerstars has every incentive to distribute more "action" hands.If this is done even at 1% frequency above a std deviation the gross rake for a site is Exponential.Rake is the business, I can increase gross revenue by 150% jaw drops from CEO next question is HOW.
Can you explain that bolded sentence and show your workings for me? Thanks
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-28-2012 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnE OuT On RiVeR
No thanks self explanatory work/find out for yourself.
Way to back up your claims, champ.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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