See if I can figure it out? This was originally posted by me as its own thread, and apparently moved here by admin. Your response sounds pretty presumptuous and patronizing. How the hell do you know what evidence I have or don't have? --Cause I didn't elaborate on evidence there? And obv from overall context, what I "sound like" is not exactly my main concern. I wanted someone from Carbon to see it, while giving a shot to not being brushed off, since it's at least seen by a few here.

Point is, why would you even bother chiming in just to say that? You don't even know who I am.

If the topic was against the forum rules or something, that would be one thing. --My bad obv for disregarding rules. At least address that clearly. (I've never posted in these threads before and not in a while at the site (excluding yesterday)).

If whatever degree of irritation or whatever that prompted you to reply thusly, was based upon an apparent contradiction between my implying I'd hold off on blabbing badly re their site in public, while doing the very same in the actual post, then...fair enough, almost, but not quite.

ps No hard feelings. I do admit to being pretty upset when I posted it. And I'm sure cloying drama is really not either of our cups o' tea. Onward and upward.

What evidence do you have? And are you talking about the deal or seating? (if its seating, then doesn't belong here)

Don't forget that the PS version is stabilised with multiple independent flux capacitors.

Make all the difference.

The problem is Merge seems to be going thru some serious financial troubles atm. So basically the choice your giving them is to either A. fix their rng and go bankrupt, or B. take a gamble and bet that you won't do what everyone else has failed to do (prove it rigged).

I'm guessing they're gonna let the cards play out since either way they're all in.

It's funny, I thought I'd try PartyPoker today, haven't played there before. So it all goes well, I quadruple my money within just 30 min. I subsequently get a few bad beats, KK over JJ, straight over set, flush over straight. I start yelling in the chat, but I soon calm down. But by then it's already too late. I have mentioned the word "rigged" in chat - and that's when the insane sh** starts happening. I get all these perfect hands laid out for me. I hit low 2pair on the flop HU, I bet - called, I bet - called, I bet - reraised all in. He is short, I'm commited and nothing dangerous has really appeared on the board. He shows rags into runner-runner flush. After the hand I'm at 2x my initial money. Then this goes on and on for 5 minutes. Literally even more unbelievable bad beats. The very next hand was set over set. At last I just tilted away what I had left.

I am now 100 % convinced all of these bogus sites are 100% rigged. As soon as I dropped the word rigged in chat, their unwanted player alarm must have set off and the automated rig must've set in full motion. There is now absolutely no doubt in my mind online poker is rigged. Nothing in the world could make me believe otherwise. But why is something not done about this??? How do they keep getting away with it??? When it gets public, and it's bound to sooner or later, it's gonna be the biggest scandal of all time, and I truly hope the people behind all this will have to pay.

Granted, I don't have a ton of experience here at 2+2. But this so far has got to be the best portion of a post I have ever read. Wow...most rooms can't get cashouts processed inside a month. But they sure know all there is to know about the old tried and true "unwanted player alarm" that zings a signal back to the underground HQ and alerts the RNG to start screwing the player at seat five...

We all get pissed sometimes but...this is surely off the deep end.

You quadruple your money in 30 minutes and it's all good but when you donk it off again it is suddenly rigged. Yelling in chat and tilting your money off? Somehow, I think you are exactly the kind of player that a site wants rather than one they would like to scare off.

How exactly does scaring off a new depositor help their business anyway?

You seem to have read quite a bit more into my post than was intended. You started an extremely low content thread that was nothing more than a threat to Carbon Poker, and when someone posted a simple "Lolz" response, you claimed it "wasn't a laughable matter". I wasn't irritated or upset, nor implying anything about what evidence you might or might not have, merely pointing out that with a post like yours, you really shouldn't be expecting anything more than the reply you got.

Anyway, glad there are no hard feelings, and I wish you the best of luck in getting Carbon to fix whatever unidentified problems you've apparently discovered.

im a winning player on a number of sites and i think its 100% rigged

Some riggies will win as a result of the short term mathematics of the game (very few are grinders). As well, any donk can win a single MTT once in a while that skews the overall results. Some riggies may be adequate players with extreme paranoid tendencies, which allows them to win a bit, but likely far less than they could if they had control of their mental game (and we see that on the very strong results of riggies who fought through and got past their paranoia).

Long term (ie: if you took the results of all the genuine riggies), one would not expect stellar overall results, and that certainly seems the case based on the general frustration seen in their posts. Many have correctly quit online poker (my general suggestion to riggies)



I admit I always chuckle when a riggie tries to talk about the business or a specific network as if they have any idea what they are talking about, when it is clear they are just tossing random darts in the air based on their general hatred of "evil business."

Merge is a relatively small portion of Sportsbook. "Financial troubles" do not exist in the way you would hope, and have nothing to do with the restructuring that is going on at Merge the past few months. This restructuring is typical when new management takes over a division of a large company, as happened with Merge a few months ago. Riggies probably never knew that new management took over because boring news like that (which had a few threads here) is not as exciting as new player boom switches or flush draws hitting too often.

As per usual, riggies believe in boogiemen that seem to make sense to them which have little to do with reality, and I cannot wait to see how riggies completely misinterpret by the news that will be coming up soon.


All the best.

Yeah if you want to ignore all the signs of financial troubles i guess you can blame it on network restructuring.

I do not doubt that you believe all of the signs you think you see, because you have to interpret them through the filter that works in your head.

I would ask you to breakdown the whole sportsbook entity to properly explain your situation, but that would be like asking a riggie for proof of whatever theory he has - nothing substantial will come out of it.

Don't worry, I imagine we and others will have a fun time chatting more about this later this week, and your theories will be ones you totally believe in and will be entertaining .


All the best.

Ya, way to convince anyone otherwise with your network restructuring theories.

Take care.

I never try to convince guys like you of anything - I realize that is impossible, as you need to believe in what you believe in. I appreciate blind faith for what it is.

I do encourage guys like you to expand on your beliefs, because it is fun to see what you will say. Could you even hazard a guess at what percentage of Sportsbook is Merge for instance? As well, what percentage of the poker business would you say 2+2 represents to Merge, and how would you breakdown the skins in terms of percentage of their player base?

No doubt this is all information you have researched and know to better support your beliefs .

All the best.

No, sorry. What i take a look at are facts. Those are what i use evaluate my beliefs. I don't make them up, nor do i ignore them. I can go into all the reasons i see that point to financial difficulties, but it appears that your mind is already made up and will blindly believe that network restructuring is the cause of what we are experiencing while giving no facts to back up your assertion but instead mock the majority of players concerned who see network restructuring an effect and not a cause.

Take care.

So in response to my three specific fact based questions - you answered none of them, but you did suggest you have a whole lot of your own "facts" and "reasons" that at this time you will not share. Come on, share that manifesto!

What can I say, I am totally shocked by the content and approach of your reply


Tell you what, how about we wait a little while and then when you catch up on some information we can break down each of our theories and see who has and had a better grasp of what is going on. That could be fun as well!

All the best.

I am completely surprised that you would use the "fact" that at this specific point in time i choose to prioritize other things over getting into a huge discussion with you over something you only care about for shill purposes as some type of evidence that your theory is correct.

Take Care.

Make sure you keep proper track of which little yellow sticky notes has that "other things" theory so that it does not get lost amid all the sticky notes on your walls with all of your various agendas.

Anyway, we can talk more about this later, you will know when.

All the best.

The difference between my view and your view is that i specifically stated "seems to be" while you spout your theory as it is 100% fact. Yet the reasoning for my view (which happens to be shared by the majority of people interested in the situation) somehow takes precedence over your evidence of fact.

Just thought that was a little funny.

Take care.

You guys are so cordial...haha.

Bottom line is this - it would take a LOT of competency to pull off rigging either the RNG or the software, and to make it specific to target certain players. Conspiracy theories are fun and all, but where they generally always break down is when you factor in competency. And a lot of rooms these days barely have the ability to stay afloat - how are they going to rig anything? Silly...

Merge solvency status is actually the focus point of the exchange were having.

^^ Kind of a contradiction in terms, at least in public perception...isn't it? Without any sort of reliable communication from Merge, they let perception become reality. Seems a lot of players have fled...which is good for other rooms, at least.

2+2 represented under 10% of their business. Staking companies had to shut down (no ptp) for now for obvious reasons, and staked players were most active in the MTT area, which has been reduced.

Cash game and sit and go traffic is pretty much the same, and even their weekly (earn 100 points to qualify) satellite had more people than ever this past week signed up (until they canceled/moved it due to a min player requirement glitch - which was kind of stupid).

A lot of the people here have a very myopic view of the industry based on what they read here, which often times is a lot of theory and little insight, so the conjecture builds layer upon layer on itself.

Merge does not care at all what the 2+2 community thinks (one can legitimately debate whether that is good or bad), so they had no hand in what the perception of Merge is in that sense.

Yeah, I'm sure there are even some long-term winners that have suspicions of rigging. But certainly the true believers are heavily skewed to the losing side of things, which should of course be expected.

LOL, that makes sense - take a player who is already suspicious of a rig and then give them a boatload of evidence that it is.

So since no evidence of any kind would convince you it isn't rigged, I assume you've quit online poker?

Because people like you who supposedly have seen so much extremely obvious evidence of this rigging never seem capable of providing anything other than anecdotal evidence of anything.

That has happened to me on bovada, was winning there for 2years with small normal swings just like when i played tilt and stars..im pretty nitty and taggy so never any crazy huge swings... But 4 months ago i started talkn trash and calling players bad etc, hoping to tilt them and win more money..My winrate has gone down the drain since then Lost 80% of my roll in those 4 months. I use a hud and I have saved a lot of 2outters and crazy ****. But this isnt really evidence like u were asking for. Ive showed my freinds and they just say its a really bad swing. But ive asked others who play on bovada and everybody explains to me that if you mention rigged in the chat ur done and I believe it..
My question is how would somebody ever get any real evidence ever, no matter how many bad beats or 2 outters I show u you will just say its a big swing or varience. But ive been playing poker for 5 years and never seen anything like the **** on bovada..