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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:00 AM   #5576
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
It's different for each site, but Stars in particularly is under the laws of the Isle of Man, which says they have to maintain a trust account that is sufficient to meet all player obligations, at all times. They have limited freedom to invest that trust account. But in principle you are correct, your money is not held for you in an individual account.

As you point out, banks don't do that either.

I doubt any major site mixes player funds with operating funds, that would be really poor (and risky) business practice.
Not really risky at all given that they have Isle of Mann oversight or a better way to put it would be no oversight at all.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:06 AM   #5577
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Not really risky at all given that they have Isle of Mann oversight or a better way to put it would be no oversight at all.
The Isle of Mann government has presided over one less near collapse of their banking system than either the UK or US governments.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:06 AM   #5578
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Not really risky at all given that they have Isle of Mann oversight or a better way to put it would be no oversight at all.
The risk isn't from regulation, it's that if they couldn't give players their money when they ask for it then their reputation would be harmed beyond repair and they would lose business. That has happened to some small sites in the past.

Edit - notice the recent seizure of $30 million in funds at a U.S. payment processor. Stars and Tilt immediately paid all the players and gave them a bonus for the inconvenience. That's good business.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:07 AM   #5579
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Looked like a bite to me.



I have every intention of so doing. Or not. As I feel at the time.



See, this is where your narrow horizons fail you.

It is perfectly possible to be intellectually rigourous at some times (e.g. analysing poker maths) and winding up rigtards at others.

The two activities do not have to be practiced exclusively.



A lot of women walk out on men who keep beating them.



Again, you don't really understand, do you?

You would be perfectly safe calling me a shill in r/l. I'd just laugh. There are others who might take a less tolerant line.
Your posts are just pure nonsense trying to discredit and draw people into argument.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:11 AM   #5580
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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The risk isn't from regulation, it's that if they couldn't give players their money when they ask for it then their reputation would be harmed beyond repair and they would lose business. That has happened to some small sites in the past.
I'm not saying that they wouldn't pay players making a withdrawal just that they wouldn't be too happy about it. For example player A deposits $1000 into the pot and one month later withdraws $2000,player A is then flagged and doomswitched hence the cashout curse that players complain about.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:16 AM   #5581
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm not saying that they wouldn't pay players making a withdrawal just that they wouldn't be too happy about it. For example player A deposits $1000 into the pot and one month later withdraws $2000,player A is then flagged and doomswitched hence the cashout curse that players complain about.
So sites believe that a player who wins and withdraws money will then quit forever and not be an ongoing source of rake, but if they make him lose a little he is more likely to keep playing and paying rake. I think I've got it now. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:19 AM   #5582
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Your posts are just pure nonsense trying to discredit and draw people into argument.
But you never engage in argument.

You just spout the same old BS over and over and over again.

Honestly, the world does not need me to discredit you.

You are a past master at that activity yourself.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:24 AM   #5583
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm not saying that they wouldn't pay players making a withdrawal just that they wouldn't be too happy about it. For example player A deposits $1000 into the pot and one month later withdraws $2000,player A is then flagged and doomswitched hence the cashout curse that players complain about.
Yes but they could only use that technique on idiots. (Including rigtards, of course.)

They would know that any intelligent player would be able to analyse what is happening and then there would be credible evidence against them.

Either that or they would stop playing and cash out completely.

Only idiot rigtards would, having been subjected to such treatment, keep playing and as their only reaction, start whining on internet forums.

It's just not a viable business option for the sites.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:29 AM   #5584
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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So sites believe that a player who wins and withdraws money will then quit forever and not be an ongoing source of rake, but if they make him lose a little he is more likely to keep playing and paying rake. I think I've got it now. Thanks for clearing that up.
What I'm saying is only the deposit matters and the rake is just a number on a screen so they can reduce the overall number in everyone s fake account.
The deposit and withdrawal are the only real transactions going on.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:31 AM   #5585
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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What I'm saying is only the deposit matters and the rake is just a number on a screen so they can reduce the overall number in everyone s fake account.
The deposit and withdrawal are the only real transactions going on.


I see your accountancy skills match your poker skills.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:31 AM   #5586
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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What I'm saying is only the deposit matters and the rake is just a number on a screen so they can reduce the overall number in everyone s fake account.
The deposit and withdrawal are the only real transactions going on.
Wrong. The money in play and generating rake is the only number that matters to the site. What a player has in their account at any given time is irrelevant, aside from the fact that winning players with more money tend to keep playing and also tend to move up in stakes, thus paying even more rake to the site. Sites should love winning players, both for rake generation and for image. I think they are giddy with joy every time someone works their way up to the nosebleed levels and pays $3.00 per pot in rake.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:31 AM   #5587
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I used the quote as a similarity between the bright lights and comps that come with a casino and the reward scheme's that OP sets to draw you into their rigged site and make sure you stay there.
So now you are saying all casinos are rigged as well? I suppose literally they are since every game they offer has a built in house edge. This is not really a secret.

Poker rooms (live or online) also have this built in house edge - called rake that everyone pays.

Reward schemes to build loyalty are common in all types of businesses. Even bagel places have membership frequent purchase cards.

Seems you are against capitalism, which is your right.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
For example player s attaining a VIP level wont want to play elsewhere as they ll lose their status gained on one site, also bonus stores where you use your hard earned points to claim a reward only to see the doomswitch get fliped whilst your claiming that bonus.
See, this is where you start getting into the mystical with the whole doomswitch once a customer gets a reward concept. You run a business. You like having loyal customers. So, you screw them once they show a certain level of loyalty?

In my bagel example this would be like if the place put rat poison in your bagel once you claimed your 1 free bagel after buying 10 others.

Your mind may create these bizarre paranoid reward program beliefs (rewardphobia I guess), and if you are that afraid of rewards you can always opt out of any reward or bonus plan. In the real world these programs just serve to increase loyalty, nothing more. An airline is not going to have a plane crash if it is filled with people using free miles tickets.


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I'm talking from personal experience here my graph showed a steady ascent for 2 weeks until I claimed a $650 bonus and whilst was earning the points to actually recieve that bonus I coincedentally recieved the worst steak ever over the next week and by the time I'd earned the bonus I was actually around 200$ worse off than when I claimed the bonus. Nice timing on that downswing wasn't it. My graph literally nosedived.
Not sure what to say about this other then it is a very simple form of self deluded paranoid thinking. You actually believe that this huge company specifically targeted you for claiming a reward, and yet people claim those rewards (even bigger ones as well) tons of times a day and we have not heard an uproar which would happen if this was a systemic issue.

If you had a customer who received the incorrect change from you and claimed it was a huge conspiracy to screw him because he just got a free bagel from you guys as a loyalty reward what would you say to him? Dude, that guy is you.

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As regards cheating customers. I would be a little difficult to do as it's cash although most people don't tend to check their change.

What you really want me to say is "It would harm my business" so that you can say "Ahh so you can see why OP sites wouldn't do it cause it would harm their business".

This kind of theft really isn't comparable to OP though. If someone deposited say 100$ and the site took $110 that would be comparable but the theft going on in OP is a little trickier to spot than counting the change in your pocket.
It is the exact same crime only to a different scale. You assume others do it casually all the time with no regard for consequences, yet you clearly avoid it because of the consequences and relatively minor gain it represents. That is what running a long term business is all about, regardless of the size.





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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
I ve mentioned this before but I'm still curious as to exactly what happens to deposits made to sites. Take Stars for example, do they really have 500,000 different accounts, I think not. They likely have 1 big pot that they use as the banks do trading on the stock market or investing and when you withdraw you really withdraw from this big pot which won't be appreciated hence the cashout curse/doomswitch.
Email the sites or do actual research instead of just making up amusing "likely" theories which are to be diplomatic, a tad erratic.

Thank you for your post though, your paranoid tendencies and beliefs really do serve as a poster for those considering the riggedology faith, so they have a better idea of what to expect.

All the best.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:33 AM   #5588
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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But you never engage in argument.

You just spout the same old BS over and over and over again.

Honestly, the world does not need me to discredit you.

You are a past master at that activity yourself.
I'm happy to debate a point. I'm not really looking to engage in an argument with someone using childish comments like rigtard,idiot,wife beater etc.

If I and other s are really discrediting ourselves by asking questions and have doubts about a shady enterprise then so be it.

Seriously though wife beater I mean wtf has that got to do with anything I ve posted??!!!
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:36 AM   #5589
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm happy to debate a point. I'm not really looking to engage in an argument with someone using childish comments like rigtard,idiot
There is nothing childish about using an appropriate epithet in context.

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Seriously though wife beater I mean wtf has that got to do with anything I ve posted??!!!
The sad thing is you really, really, REALLY, don't know, do you?
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:36 AM   #5590
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Wrong. The money in play and generating rake is the only number that matters to the site. What a player has in their account at any given time is irrelevant, aside from the fact that winning players with more money tend to keep playing and also tend to move up in stakes, thus paying even more rake to the site. Sites should love winning players, both for rake generation and for image. I think they are giddy with joy every time someone works their way up to the nosebleed levels and pays $3.00 per pot in rake.
Well unless I'm very wrong the only way that a site gets any money is through a player deposit no?

The rake didn't just get there by itself it got there through a deposit no?
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:40 AM   #5591
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

qpw using the Bill O Reilly technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5noY
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:40 AM   #5592
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Well unless I'm very wrong the only way that a site gets any money is through a player deposit no?

The rake didn't just get there by itself it got there through a deposit no?
Yes but as we've already established, the site does not 'own' the money deposited.

Only when rake has been generated can they remove money from the players' account (note the position of the apostophe) and use it for operational purposes or as profit.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:41 AM   #5593
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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qpw using the Bill O Reilly technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IwIRNM5noY
Quoting random, unrelated, youtube links will not increase your credibility one iota.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:42 AM   #5594
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Monteroy you cannot keep taking peoples post s and saying well if you ve said that then you must think that and you must also think this. How can you be taken seriously?
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:46 AM   #5595
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Monteroy you cannot keep taking peoples post s and saying well if you ve said that then you must think that and you must also think this. How can you be taken seriously?
Very easily.

It's called logical induction.

It is a much more credible approach that the one you take of ignoring all the serious and sensible arguments presented against your case and simply calling their proponents 'shills'.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:47 AM   #5596
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Yes but as we've already established, the site does not 'own' the money deposited.

Only when rake has been generated can they remove money from the players' account (note the position of the apostophe) and use it for operational purposes or as profit.
First of all congatulations on a post with no derogatory remarks. It doesn't happen very often but perhaps you are becoming an adult though slowly.

How do I know for sure though that this is how a site is operating. The sites have little or no oversight at all so it looks to me like they can do what the hell they want with our money whilst we go about swapping imaginary numbers on a screen until deposit/cashout time.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:48 AM   #5597
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Monteroy you cannot keep taking peoples post s and saying well if you ve said that then you must think that and you must also think this. How can you be taken seriously?
Then show the logic gaps in my reasoning if you can. Be very specific and explain your reasoning.

If you want to have a name calling emotional hissy fit style debate then stick with qpw instead.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:48 AM   #5598
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Quoting random, unrelated, youtube links will not increase your credibility one iota.
So you won't even watch the clip just to see the similarities to your own technique.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:49 AM   #5599
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

has anyone provided any evidence to support their claims of online poker being rigged?
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:50 AM   #5600
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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So you won't even watch the clip just to see the similarities to your own technique.
Where do you come up with the idea that I won't watch the clip?

You see, it is this habit you have of simply making up 'facts' from thin air that mitigates against your having the slightest credibility.
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