As far as I know - I'm a player, not a Stars rep - the analysis only happened once, but I don't think the guys at Cigital just let the RNG produce 3 or 4 flops and then said "Looks legit, bye".
According to the Stars security FAQ...
Quote: Cigital is based in Virginia, USA. For the analysis of the Stars RNG system, the hardware and software was flown out to the US and tested under lab conditions. See the report here: http://www.pokerstars.co.uk/media/pd...labresults.pdf
It's a pretty complicated process. Are they supposed to check it again every time you get a bad beat?

When there's 250,000 players on Pokerstars, many with tracking software, the RNG is effectively being tested constantly. No one has thus far produced evidence that the RNG is flawed.

Yes, this works every time.

Rigged poker is the best excuse for bad poker players since so many years...

you were right support said they left doomswitch onto long and said they were sorry, not only that there throwing a hot euro ip address to boot. i knew it wasnt because i played bad. i hope no1 takes this serious btw

But they do not test whether the tested hardware and software was the only such hardware and software used by Pokerstars to run its RNG. This report is like a CPA' review. It states results from data given to it by the client, but does not validate the truthfulness of the data like in an audit. So, this report does not have the reliability of a CPA' audit.

So true. Best excuse ever to stop working on your game.

But rigged poker has been around since the invention of poker too. Why would online poker be exempt?

They also didn't test to see if 911 was an inside job, if the moon landings were fake, or if the world is flat, so I guess you believe all those things too.

Quit with the paranoia. It's not healthy, you know.

Agreed. Also, no one tested either the software used to test the RNG, nor, to my knowledge, was there software used to test the software used to test the RNG.

Obviously, glaring flaws such as these render these tests unreliable to say the very least.

Stars could ship every real $ HH that ever happened on the site to Cigital and i imagine tests on that database showing the shuffle is legit would suffice. Is there a reason stars wouldn't do something like this?

Only that it would be pointless because the sort of idiot who thinks they are going to rig the deal, and can't understand why the player base would detect this, is only going to start arguing that whoever does the test either:

1) Is in on the rigging
2) Is incompetent
3) Didn't do enough checks

Yeah i'm sure that's their reason.

The real reason is that, in reality, there are very few people who are seriously concerned.

They undertook one very expensive exercise that will have satisfied all but the most paranoid.

So there is no mileage for them in spending ever increasing amounts of money on ever more complex tests for fewer and fewer people.

I would imagine that they have already gone well past the point of diminishing returns.

Not only are 99.99% of online poker players concerned with whether or not they're getting a fair shuffle, there are many people who don't play online poker because of fairness concerns.

Givin the circumstances of the first test, it basically plays no role in whether or not the shuffle is legit because there are no assurances that the site is using that same hardware and software. Therefore you don't have to be paranoid to question the legitimacy, you would have to be naive not to.

Having all the real $ hands played tested would hold a lot more bearing if shown to be legit, because those were actual occurances of the rng, which is way different then testing an rng that may or not have been used to deal games on the site. Do you really think testing an rng that may not have even been used to deal games (or altered) is sufficient?

I don't want my bank to embezzle my money but that doesn't mean I expect it to ship the accounts offshore and have them checked over and over again.

Most sane, rational, people expect a fair deal and believe they are getting one.

I'm quite happy that 'Stars do their own testing of the RNG, particularly given the fact that, if there was anything wrong, there is sufficient data freely available to clearly demonstrate that something is amiss.

Only paranoid people who do not understand what can be done with maths and stats on the available data worry about rigged RNG's and demand poorly specified tests which they don't understand and which would not prove anything much anyway.

There are checks in place to protect the consumer if banks embezzle your $, such as FDIC insurance. You also don't have to spend months of your time trying to figure out if your money is missing. That is not a real good comparison.

I find it strange that you will poke at any hole (no matter how small) in every "rigtards" argument, yet you accept and approve a huge hole in the way stars rng was tested.

I think it's a huge scam. Not only that, when supposed banks are destined to fail because of their shennanigans, they get bailed out by the same public it extorted. I'm sure my funds would still be insured though if a bank decided to steal them or lost em gambling, no? And if they aren't there are pretty clear cut laws when it comes to theft in this country.

Wait, what? No. Not even remotely close.

But I'd agree this is probably true. The thing is, can you ever have enough testing to satisfy most of them?

Can you point me to one online poker player who doesn't care if the shuffle is random?

So you won't mind depositing and playing on a site should i make one?

Last i checked, fulltilt stole a lot of $ off me and if D.O.J. wasn't being so generous with all the money they profited thru the ordeal, i would have little to no recourse in obtaining my stolen funds.

That's not quite what you said, and given the context, certainly not what I thought you meant. You were responding to a post that stated very few people were seriously concerned, and were using the point that "99.99% of online poker players concerned with whether or not they're getting a fair shuffle" to bolster your argument for taking further steps to prove that they are.

If you simply meant that 99.99% care if the shuffle is random, it doesn't make much of a counter to very few people being seriously concerned, nor does it demonstrate a need for further layers of testing. Players can care if the shuffle is random, but not be looking for more proof of that from the sites. I'd say most players fit into that category. If that's what you meant, then of course you're correct, but I'm not sure why you'd even mention something so self-evident.

Don't get me wrong; more transparency and accountability is great if it can be achieved realistically and at a cost that won't be passed on to us. But I think you overestimate the effect it would have on player confidence and the number of people who would play.

Only if you live in the free world. Other dictatorships have to wait for their government to pay them back.

Caring is a display of concern... it may not be riots on the street or w/e it is you would qualify as being seriously concerned, but it shouldn't matter if players are concerned or seriously concered. If there is a concern it should be properly addressed. I just don't see a test that allows a huge hole in the way it was done as properly addressing that concern.

FWIW (not even sure if this is an accurate way of searching the numbers as google isn't the only way of researching the issue and other aspects i may not be aware of):

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But from what i gather from this is a decent size % ratio of google searches on the subject vs olp players (numbers are monthly avg).

Because if you don't trust the existing Cigital study, a new Cigital study won't satisfy you.

IMO, the solution is to enable end-users to conduct their own study, by providing players with a copy of their hand histories.

False. I would be way more satisfied with a study of all real $ hhs then i am with a study of rng software that might not of even have been used to deal games over the years.

I fail to see how being able to program a random rng is any evidence of integrity.