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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:08 PM   #5551
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
In a legal casino, however, a shill is sometimes a gambler who plays using the casino's money in order to keep games (especially poker) going when there are not enough players. (This is different from a "proposition player" who is paid a salary by the casino for the same purpose, but bets with their own money.)
I know of prop players, but I've never heard of this.
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:14 PM   #5552
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
I know of prop players, but I've never heard of this.
Anything to keep the rake rolling in right?
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:21 PM   #5553
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

No.
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:23 PM   #5554
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
No.
Yes.

To quote De Niro in Casino "Its all been arranged to get your money".
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:31 PM   #5555
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I understand now. It's just on a bigger scale now, instead of the mafia in Las Vegas, it's now the Russian and Israeli mafia.
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:35 PM   #5556
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Yes.

To quote De Niro in Casino "Its all been arranged to get your money".
Oh no, his proof is a film.
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:40 PM   #5557
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
I understand now. It's just on a bigger scale now, instead of the mafia in Las Vegas, it's now the Russian and Israeli mafia.
The reason you guys are obvious shills is that you take what people say out of all context in a pathetic attempt to undermine them but all your doing is making yourself look like more of a shill than you already are.

Why are you talking about mafia?
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:43 PM   #5558
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Oh no, his proof is a film.
Again you ve done exactly what Dmoogle just did.

Where in my post did I offer the De Niro quote as proof?

Quotes are used to emphasize a point.

Russ Hamilton for example;

"Anyone who plays OP is a sucker".
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:45 PM   #5559
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Casino is a movie about Las Vegas and the mafia. I chose to respond to that part of the post rather than the "Yes." part. But since you called me out on it, I'll respond to that part too: No.

One of the rigtards claimed that a Russian and Israeli mafia ran all the online poker sites.

Oh and what's your definition of a shill?
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:46 PM   #5560
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Again you ve done exactly what Dmoogle just did.

Where in my post did I offer the De Niro quote as proof?

Quotes are used to emphasize a point.

Russ Hamilton for example;

"Anyone who plays OP is a sucker".
I like playing OP as well
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:49 PM   #5561
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Oh no, his proof is a film.
it could be worse he could be quoting rounders.

Last edited by senjitsu; 06-28-2009 at 07:49 PM. Reason: or shade
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Old 06-28-2009, 08:09 PM   #5562
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Well show me the proof on how often Aces hit the board because i don't see it.

Does PT3 have a function for this?
Proof has been posted many times and not just by me. You can check your own PT database by exporting the hands to excel. You will have a column for each board card. Add them up or do a pivot table by card. If you have any reasonable sample size you'll find that Aces don't flop more than other cards, in fact slightly less due to reasons already explained.
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:31 PM   #5563
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Some one that questions the integrity of online poker is an idiot? Hmm...There's a real world outside of 2+2 and youtube, maybe you should join everybody else and stop being worthless....
Funny thing is, the one thing that I adhere to in life is to question everything. The stats don't lie, but most of you rigtards do.
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:36 PM   #5564
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Yes.

To quote De Niro in Casino "Its all been arranged to get your money".
And for online poker the money comes in via rake.

Not sure what your point is since nowhere in the movie Casino did it ever suggest or imply that the casino rigged it's games in any illegal manner, since it is absolutely not worth the risk if ever caught.

Businesses operate to make money, not quite sure that is the revelation you think it is. You claim to run one, I would assume this is a concept you understand.

Also, you never denied stealing from your customers a few days ago, why is that? If you do not steal from them, why not? Give a couple reasons why you would not steal from your customers to make a bit more money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Again you ve done exactly what Dmoogle just did.

Where in my post did I offer the De Niro quote as proof?
I would assume you would never try to use it as proof of anything since it suggests that the gambling industry, while not filled with nuns and rainbows, operates a non-rigged series of games because they make money from their customers long term in a legal manner. You know, kind of like how rake works.

I assume you said his quote because it sounded all cool and such even though it ironically proved the opposite of your beliefs.

Last edited by Monteroy; 06-28-2009 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:44 PM   #5565
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I'm sure I missed this somehow

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Old 06-28-2009, 10:55 PM   #5566
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post

One of the rigtards claimed that a Russian and Israeli mafia ran all the online poker sites.
Where there's money.......
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:51 AM   #5567
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Shills in gambling
Both the illegal and legal gambling industries often use shills to make winning at games appear more likely than it actually is.
The only thing that is going to make winning games more probable for you is to stop whining on here and start to get to grips with probability maths.

It's the reverse of a vicious circle. The more you understand probability the more you realise that what you currently think of as the result of rigging is actually perfectly normal cardfall. You can thus spend more time concentrating on your play and less obsessing about how the site has it in for you.

Whatever nonsense anyone may tell you to the contrary, poker is all about probability. If you don't have the maths to handle it then you will never make even a half decent poker player.

In years past when the general level of play was much worse (and you can probably find r/l games like that today) it was possible to be a small scale winner just by having a 'feel' for the game but those days are long gone and will almost certainly never return to OLP.

If you can't get to grips with the maths, give up.

But then move on. Don't waste a chunk of your life blaming poker sites for your own inadequacies.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:49 AM   #5568
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
And for online poker the money comes in via rake.

Not sure what your point is since nowhere in the movie Casino did it ever suggest or imply that the casino rigged it's games in any illegal manner, since it is absolutely not worth the risk if ever caught.

Businesses operate to make money, not quite sure that is the revelation you think it is. You claim to run one, I would assume this is a concept you understand.

Also, you never denied stealing from your customers a few days ago, why is that? If you do not steal from them, why not? Give a couple reasons why you would not steal from your customers to make a bit more money.




I would assume you would never try to use it as proof of anything since it suggests that the gambling industry, while not filled with nuns and rainbows, operates a non-rigged series of games because they make money from their customers long term in a legal manner. You know, kind of like how rake works.

I assume you said his quote because it sounded all cool and such even though it ironically proved the opposite of your beliefs.
I used the quote as a similarity between the bright lights and comps that come with a casino and the reward scheme's that OP sets to draw you into their rigged site and make sure you stay there. For example player s attaining a VIP level wont want to play elsewhere as they ll lose their status gained on one site, also bonus stores where you use your hard earned points to claim a reward only to see the doomswitch get fliped whilst your claiming that bonus. I'm talking from personal experience here my graph showed a steady ascent for 2 weeks until I claimed a $650 bonus and whilst was earning the points to actually recieve that bonus I coincedentally recieved the worst steak ever over the next week and by the time I'd earned the bonus I was actually around 200$ worse off than when I claimed the bonus. Nice timing on that downswing wasn't it. My graph literally nosedived.

As regards cheating customers. I would be a little difficult to do as it's cash although most people don't tend to check their change.

What you really want me to say is "It would harm my business" so that you can say "Ahh so you can see why OP sites wouldn't do it cause it would harm their business".

This kind of theft really isn't comparable to OP though. If someone deposited say 100$ and the site took $110 that would be comparable but the theft going on in OP is a little trickier to spot than counting the change in your pocket.

I ve mentioned this before but I'm still curious as to exactly what happens to deposits made to sites. Take Stars for example, do they really have 500,000 different accounts, I think not. They likely have 1 big pot that they use as the banks do trading on the stock market or investing and when you withdraw you really withdraw from this big pot which won't be appreciated hence the cashout curse/doomswitch.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:57 AM   #5569
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
The only thing that is going to make winning games more probable for you is to stop whining on here and start to get to grips with probability maths.

It's the reverse of a vicious circle. The more you understand probability the more you realise that what you currently think of as the result of rigging is actually perfectly normal cardfall. You can thus spend more time concentrating on your play and less obsessing about how the site has it in for you.

Whatever nonsense anyone may tell you to the contrary, poker is all about probability. If you don't have the maths to handle it then you will never make even a half decent poker player.

In years past when the general level of play was much worse (and you can probably find r/l games like that today) it was possible to be a small scale winner just by having a 'feel' for the game but those days are long gone and will almost certainly never return to OLP.

If you can't get to grips with the maths, give up.

But then move on. Don't waste a chunk of your life blaming poker sites for your own inadequacies.
I like how you needle me looking for an angry reaction but I ain't gonna bite mate.

I think you just make yourself look ignorant when you call people who have legitimate concerns over OP rigtards, idiots or inadequate.

Do you think your family would be proud if they saw you behaviour in this thread and towards others questioning OP?

Do you think they would be proud of you aiding/defending a corrupt industry defrauding people looking for an honest game out of millions every year?

As I obv no longer trust or play OP I'll be playing lots of live poker in my free time instead so Ill let you know how me and my inadequacies get on.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:16 AM   #5570
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
I like how you needle me looking for an angry reaction but I ain't gonna bite mate.
He says before biting and posting the following.

Quote:
I think you just make yourself look ignorant when you call people who have legitimate concerns over OP rigtards, idiots or inadequate.
Only to rigtards, idiots or other inadequates.

Quote:
Do you think your family would be proud if they saw you behaviour in this thread and towards others questioning OP?
Since they value intellectual rigour and the pursuit of justice (inc. not accusing without credible evidence), yes, I think they would be satisfied with my conduct.

Quote:
Do you think they would be proud of you aiding/defending a corrupt industry defrauding people looking for an honest game out of millions every year?
When you tell us when you stopped beating your wife ...

Quote:
As I obv no longer trust or play OP I'll be playing lots of live poker in my free time instead so Ill let you know how me and my inadequacies get on.
And you should exercise a little caution.

If you whine and moan and start making unfounded accusations face to face , as you do here, you are likely to become very unpopular very quickly. And unpopularity with people with whom you are in close physical proximity carries a different set of risks that just making a fool of yourself on an internet forum.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:35 AM   #5571
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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He says before biting and posting the following.



Only to rigtards, idiots or other inadequates.



Since they value intellectual rigour and the pursuit of justice (inc. not accusing without credible evidence), yes, I think they would be satisfied with my conduct.



When you tell us when you stopped beating your wife ...



And you should exercise a little caution.

If you whine and moan and start making unfounded accusations face to face , as you do here, you are likely to become very unpopular very quickly. And unpopularity with people with whom you are in close physical proximity carries a different set of risks that just making a fool of yourself on an internet forum.
It wasn't a bite it was more like pity for you. Also call me supperdish as much as you like.

Intellectual rigour did you just say lolololololol. Going round called people childish names and trying to wind people up is what you call intellectual rigour lololololol. Pursuit of justice???

I dont have a wife.

When I get a bad beat in live play I take it like a man and say nh and walk away. You are the one who should be afraid of behaving like you do in this thread in a face to face situation. There's nothing worse than the little keyboard name caller. I'd happily call you a shill to your face but you'd unlikely call me what you have in this thread.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:38 AM   #5572
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

[edit] Shills on the Internet
In online discussion media, satisfied consumers or "innocent" parties may express specific opinions in order to further the interests of an organization in which they have an interest, such as a commercial vendor or special-interest group. Websites may also be set up for the same purpose. For example, an employee of a company that produces a specific product may praise the product anonymously in a discussion forum or group in order to generate interest in that product, service or group. In addition, some shills use sock puppetry where they sign on as one user soliciting recommendations for a specific product or service. They then sign on as a different user pretending to be a satisfied customer of a specific company.

In some jurisdictions and circumstances this type of activity may be illegal. In addition, reputable organizations may prohibit their employees and other interested parties (contractors, agents, etc.) from participating in public forums or discussion groups in which a conflict of interest might arise, or will at least insist that their employees and agents refrain from participating in any way that might create a conflict of interest.

I wonder how many of the shills in this thread are using so called "sock puppetry"?
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:47 AM   #5573
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Where there's money.......
I love how several people have now pointed you to legitimate proof that directly counters your hypothesis about how the games are rigged, and you continue on with this garbage. It's just pathetic and hopeless at this point. No wonder people put you on ignore. You make the people who agree with your bs look worse by association, if that's even possible.
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:18 AM   #5574
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
It wasn't a bite
Looked like a bite to me.

Quote:
Also call me supperdish as much as you like.
I have every intention of so doing. Or not. As I feel at the time.

Quote:
Intellectual rigour did you just say lolololololol. Going round called people childish names and trying to wind people up is what you call intellectual rigour lololololol. Pursuit of justice???
See, this is where your narrow horizons fail you.

It is perfectly possible to be intellectually rigourous at some times (e.g. analysing poker maths) and winding up rigtards at others.

The two activities do not have to be practiced exclusively.

Quote:
I dont have a wife.
A lot of women walk out on men who keep beating them.

Quote:
When I get a bad beat in live play I take it like a man and say nh and walk away. You are the one who should be afraid of behaving like you do in this thread in a face to face situation. There's nothing worse than the little keyboard name caller. I'd happily call you a shill to your face but you'd unlikely call me what you have in this thread.
Again, you don't really understand, do you?

You would be perfectly safe calling me a shill in r/l. I'd just laugh. There are others who might take a less tolerant line.
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:48 AM   #5575
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
I ve mentioned this before but I'm still curious as to exactly what happens to deposits made to sites. Take Stars for example, do they really have 500,000 different accounts, I think not. They likely have 1 big pot that they use as the banks do trading on the stock market or investing
It's different for each site, but Stars in particularly is under the laws of the Isle of Man, which says they have to maintain a trust account that is sufficient to meet all player obligations, at all times. They have limited freedom to invest that trust account. But in principle you are correct, your money is not held for you in an individual account.

As you point out, banks don't do that either.

I doubt any major site mixes player funds with operating funds, that would be really poor (and risky) business practice.

Last edited by spadebidder; 06-29-2009 at 07:55 AM.
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