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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
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Old 06-27-2009, 06:16 AM   #5476
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I don't see how someone can win with AA 33 times in a row showndown. I don't see how someone can win 82% of the time with AKo. Events like that should not happen. And this guy wins 44 straight including non-showdowns? Unreal. Is this guy playing 6-max fr or hu?
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Old 06-27-2009, 08:33 AM   #5477
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by burden2 View Post
I don't see how someone can win with AA 33 times in a row showndown. I don't see how someone can win 82% of the time with AKo. Events like that should not happen. And this guy wins 44 straight including non-showdowns? Unreal. Is this guy playing 6-max fr or hu?
You realise the post you are quoting was made by a player who thinks online poker is rigged *against* them?

Secondly, you have no idea what the stats mean obviously. The WTSD stat shows how often you went to the showdown *when you saw the flop*, not how often you went to the showdown when you were dealt in.

This should be pretty obvious from the fact that 76.00% of 44 is 33.44, an impossible number of times to see the showdown.

To make 76.00%, the player must have seen the flop with the hand 25 times, and reached the showdown 19 times.

I don't understand your comment about winning 82% of the time with AKo at all. You realise he only won 70% of his showdowns? The times he didn't reach showdown are irrelevant, as he could have had a two of clubs and a get out of jail free card and won those hands.

Also, how could you think the guy was playing heads-up from these stats? You see the 'blind' column? You see that it's about 1/3rd of the 'Times' column? You realise that you are a blind every time when you play heads-up? His 'average hand' had about 6 players in it, so I would guess he plays mainly 9handed SnG with possibly some lower handed events thrown in.

Last edited by Pyromantha; 06-27-2009 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 06-27-2009, 09:26 AM   #5478
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition



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Old 06-27-2009, 10:01 AM   #5479
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by burden2 View Post
I don't see how someone can win with AA 33 times in a row showndown. I don't see how someone can win 82% of the time with AKo. Events like that should not happen. And this guy wins 44 straight including non-showdowns? Unreal. Is this guy playing 6-max fr or hu?
superuser obv.

Fr.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:09 AM   #5480
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Every time I right my ship, clear my head, come back with a fresh attitude, play less tables, drop down, etc. - I lose 9 out of my first 10 ace dominateds, lose to every draw, sets on the river, etc. Then in the heat of the moment, I make one -1% mistake like shoving KQ over a limp-tard who snapcalls with 33, and lose that of course. So that's as bad as I'm playing right now. One 1% mistake. Although I fully admit there were times in this run I've played worse than that - like when I was playing 12 tables.
Shrug, ok, you win. You are playing properly except for once in a rare while you make a tiny - EV play, and every time you play with your clear head you are experiencing million to 1 scenarios against you. The site must clearly be rigged against you for this to happen. You are not at fault, it must be forces outside your control. You losing your entire bankroll was something that could not be avoided.



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But I'm still running so far below expectation it's unbelievable, and it's always the worst right when I rededicate myself to playing right. It's just unbelievable.
Yup, must be rigged against you. No other possible explanation, since you are offering no other one as possible.

Better luck with whatever you choose to do in the future.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:17 AM   #5481
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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superuser obv.

Fr.
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Hi K13,

I see you still haven't confessed that you false claims about the frequency of aces coming on the flop were, in fact, false.

Why is that?
Just in case you missed this.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:23 AM   #5482
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Just in case you missed this.
Known medical side effect of rigtardism are selective vision and selective memory.
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Old 06-27-2009, 11:58 AM   #5483
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Known medical side effect of rigtardism are selective vision and selective memory.
May also include inability to perform arithmetic, paranoia, state of denial, fear of rivers, and occasional psychotic breaks.
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Old 06-27-2009, 12:36 PM   #5484
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Is online poker rigged?
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:06 PM   #5485
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Is online poker rigged?
That's a very interesting question.

It might be worth starting a thread to see what people's opinions are.
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:08 PM   #5486
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by burden2 View Post
I don't see how someone can win with AA 33 times in a row showndown. I don't see how someone can win 82% of the time with AKo. Events like that should not happen. And this guy wins 44 straight including non-showdowns? Unreal. Is this guy playing 6-max fr or hu?
What should the %'s be?
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Old 06-27-2009, 01:30 PM   #5487
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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That's a very interesting question.

It might be worth starting a thread to see what people's opinions are.
I was thinking of doing that but assumed I wouldn't get many replies.
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Old 06-27-2009, 02:14 PM   #5488
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Shrug, ok, you win. You are playing properly except for once in a rare while you make a tiny - EV play, and every time you play with your clear head you are experiencing million to 1 scenarios against you. The site must clearly be rigged against you for this to happen. You are not at fault, it must be forces outside your control. You losing your entire bankroll was something that could not be avoided.

Yup, must be rigged against you. No other possible explanation, since you are offering no other one as possible.

Better luck with whatever you choose to do in the future.
I don't blame forces against me for me losing my BR. I was on a shoe string anyway. I got laid off and decided to give poker a go again. I couldn't have played any lower and still support my large monthly nut. It worked great for 6 months just making what I needed. But as soon as I decided to really start grinding to try to build a real roll, this happened.

I don't think the site is rigged. I really don't. It's just that in 60k sngs I did not think a run like this was even possible. Which means I bet that a lot of people posting in this thread haven't been through anything like this either. Trust me, if you ever hit that 1 in 500 downswing over 2k sngs (or whatever your game equivalent is - in MTTs probably a really unlucky lifetime) you will be questioning EVERYTHING. Like I said I'm posting in this thread more to work out the dark thoughts that keep creeping in as I have another hell night, like last night.

I honestly don't know how much my sub-optimal play due to this is affecting my ROI. Is it 2-3% or 10%? I know I've dropped down in tables and buyins, and just still can't ever seem to get a break around the bubble, ITM or HU. I don't think I'm playing so bad that I've gone from running 18% over 1k $40s when the games were crappier (running good obv) to a breakeven player at the 16s (running bad). But maybe I'm making enough little mistakes. Only thing I know is to try to work through it. I really need to figure out in the next few weeks if poker is going to work or not. I don't have the luxury of taking a month off to clear my head. Poker prospects aren't looking good atm obviously.




Honest question Monteroy, how many days in a row like this before you go bonkers? Because it's been about 15 for me. You can see the point there where I won a couple sets in a row and started to get a little optimistic. But then the hammer came down again.

Last edited by suzzer99; 06-27-2009 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 06-27-2009, 02:51 PM   #5489
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I was thinking of doing that but assumed I wouldn't get many replies.
It is a worry.

On the other hand there's always the possibility that your thread might spread fear and uncertainty and cause others to start similar threads on a regular basis until the forum was awash with such threads.

And what on earth could we do then?
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:00 PM   #5490
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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You realise the post you are quoting was made by a player who thinks online poker is rigged *against* them?

Secondly, you have no idea what the stats mean obviously. The WTSD stat shows how often you went to the showdown *when you saw the flop*, not how often you went to the showdown when you were dealt in.

This should be pretty obvious from the fact that 76.00% of 44 is 33.44, an impossible number of times to see the showdown.

To make 76.00%, the player must have seen the flop with the hand 25 times, and reached the showdown 19 times.

I don't understand your comment about winning 82% of the time with AKo at all. You realise he only won 70% of his showdowns? The times he didn't reach showdown are irrelevant, as he could have had a two of clubs and a get out of jail free card and won those hands.

Also, how could you think the guy was playing heads-up from these stats? You see the 'blind' column? You see that it's about 1/3rd of the 'Times' column? You realise that you are a blind every time when you play heads-up? His 'average hand' had about 6 players in it, so I would guess he plays mainly 9handed SnG with possibly some lower handed events thrown in.
I really don't care how many people are at his table. For you to sit there and act like it is possible/probable to win 44 times in a row with AA reveals you as either an idiot or a liar.
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:00 PM   #5491
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

pushing in omaha with the nuts on turn...underdog wins 14% about random
not pushing favorite wins about there fair value. You only must know how to play the RNG.

Overall poker is a game
Deposits - Rake = possible winnings

At the moment enough new players enter the market, but after a commercial ban it will dry out relative fast. Overall poker is a simple - ev game and of course in a billion $ industry they fake alot. At sample at the WSOP website, sure the stats on the front page looks like 15000 players and 5000 cashes. But we all know that maybee 5 % make a good profit, and Vegas remove 50-60 million out of the pokerpool.
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:02 PM   #5492
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
I don't think the site is rigged. I really don't. It's just that in 60k sngs I did not think a run like this was even possible. Which means I bet that a lot of people posting in this thread haven't been through anything like this either. Trust me, if you ever hit that 1 in 500 downswing over 2k sngs (or whatever your game equivalent is - in MTTs probably a really unlucky lifetime) you will be questioning EVERYTHING. Like I said I'm posting in this thread more to work out the dark thoughts that keep creeping in as I have another hell night, like last night.
I remember reading a long time time ago "There will come a time when you will run worse than you ever thought possible". The first time came for me in around September 2007, when I had a $19K/23 buy-in downswing when my previous largests were around $5K and 12 buy-ins. A few months later I had a $23K downswing, but that wasn't that bad since most of it was from $25/$50 and $10/$20 (this is all 6-max NLHE cash games).

But back in December I had my worst run of all time, which I still haven't completely recovered from. Nearly $60K and 35BIs. Nearly all from HU PLO.

Poker is a *****.
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:12 PM   #5493
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
I don't blame forces against me for me losing my BR. I was on a shoe string anyway. I got laid off and decided to give poker a go again. I couldn't have played any lower and still support my large monthly nut. It worked great for 6 months just making what I needed. But as soon as I decided to really start grinding to try to build a real roll, this happened.

I don't think the site is rigged. I really don't. It's just that in 60k sngs I did not think a run like this was even possible. Which means I bet that a lot of people posting in this thread haven't been through anything like this either. Trust me, if you ever hit that 1 in 500 downswing over 2k sngs (or whatever your game equivalent is - in MTTs probably a really unlucky lifetime) you will be questioning EVERYTHING. Like I said I'm posting in this thread more to work out the dark thoughts that keep creeping in as I have another hell night, like last night.

I honestly don't know how much my sub-optimal play due to this is affecting my ROI. Is it 2-3% or 10%? I know I've dropped down in tables and buyins, and just still can't ever seem to get a break around the bubble, ITM or HU. I don't think I'm playing so bad that I've gone from running 18% over 1k $40s when the games were crappier (running good obv) to a breakeven player at the 16s (running bad). But maybe I'm making enough little mistakes. Only thing I know is to try to work through it. I really need to figure out in the next few weeks if poker is going to work or not. I don't have the luxury of taking a month off to clear my head. Poker prospects aren't looking good atm obviously.
You played with desperate money in a manner that must have lacked adequate bankroll management. As much as you want to say over and over and over how impossible what happened to you is, you probably contributed a ton to the outcome by the circumstances you created when playing.

And again to be blunt, no one truly cares about your situation, and the huge rigged thread is not really the place for you to essentially post your life is in shambles/path to ruin personal blog since you seem to not have it related to the sites being rigged or not.




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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Honest question Monteroy, how many days in a row like this before you go bonkers? Because it's been about 15 for me. You can see the point there where I won a couple sets in a row and started to get a little optimistic. But then the hammer came down again.
No offense, but I cannot imagine playing under the set of conditions you created for yourself, so I do not have a specific answer, but obviously you would be very emotional much sooner then if you were playing under normal bankroll management/emotional state conditions.
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:12 PM   #5494
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I really don't care how many people are at his table. For you to sit there and act like it is possible/probable to win 44 times in a row with AA reveals you as either an idiot or a liar.
Clearly it is possible, unless you think the poster has faked his PokerTracker screenshot for some purpose? He is a riggedologist like yourself, so if he was going to fake it I expect he would show them all losing.

Secondly, where did I say it was probable?

Thirdly, if you don't care how many people are at his table, why did you end your previous post with "Is this guy playing 6-max fr or hu?"?
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:18 PM   #5495
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I really don't care how many people are at his table. For you to sit there and act like it is possible/probable to win 44 times in a row with AA reveals you as either an idiot or a liar.
Its 47 now.
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:30 PM   #5496
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I remember reading a long time time ago "There will come a time when you will run worse than you ever thought possible".
Yeah, I thought I learned the meaning of that in Feb 2007. This is worse.

Last edited by suzzer99; 06-27-2009 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 06-27-2009, 03:41 PM   #5497
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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You played with desperate money in a manner that must have lacked adequate bankroll management. As much as you want to say over and over and over how impossible what happened to you is, you probably contributed a ton to the outcome by the circumstances you created when playing.
I have never denied any of this. The situation came up. I chose to take the risk and try to make a go of poker, rather than look for a job in this crappy climate. It worked fine for 6 months then I hit a 1 in 200+ downswing over 2 months. A lot of people aren't prepared for that.


Quote:
And again to be blunt, no one truly cares about your situation, and the huge rigged thread is not really the place for you to essentially post your life is in shambles/path to ruin personal blog since you seem to not have it related to the sites being rigged or not.
I never said life is in ruins/shambles, just finances. The rest of my life is going pretty good. Poker has allowed me to get in the gym a lot and I'm in better shape than I have been in probably 15 years. Which is one of the reasons I'd hate to give it up and have to commute an hour to some job that's going to suck up all my free time and energy for a while.

I am posting here because I honestly have had a lot of really bad thoughts. I don't believe them but I want to work through them. Maybe there are others like me who it will help, maybe not. But this is the poker-is-rigged thread, and those are the thoughts that are driving me crazy during this.


Quote:
No offense, but I cannot imagine playing under the set of conditions you created for yourself, so I do not have a specific answer, but obviously you would be very emotional much sooner then if you were playing under normal bankroll management/emotional state conditions.
Obviously it's not ideal, but it's not like I'm the first gambler in history who's ever gone busto. This whole 2p2 mandate about having 200 buyins and 6 months of living expenses ferreted away at all times is a relatively new phenomenon to the gambling world. Again, not ideal. But not unheard of.
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Old 06-27-2009, 04:19 PM   #5498
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

suzzer99, you expect to win because you get it in good. lol

Get it in bad and see how much more often you win than you should.

QQ vs QJ

Flop 10 6 3

hmmm, I wonder what's going to happen next......

All that volume not helping your variance?

I'm having a ****ty month and running bad but still at 9 roi % for June which ****en sucks.
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Old 06-27-2009, 04:39 PM   #5499
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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hmmm, I wonder what's going to happen next......
hopefully a temp ban for posting bad beats in the wrong forum...
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:25 PM   #5500
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Hold'em Tournament - t400/t800 Blinds + t100 - 7 players - View hand 165552
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: t1465 M = 0.77
SB: t22224 M = 11.70
BB: t20936 M = 11.02
UTG: t6283 M = 3.31
Hero (UTG+1): t4214 M = 2.22
MP: t15660 M = 8.24
CO: t19655 M = 10.34

Pre Flop: (t1900) Hero is UTG+1 with Q Q
1 fold, Hero raises to t4114 all in, 4 folds, BB calls t3314

Flop: (t9328) 5 3 2

Turn: (t9328) J

River: (t9328) A

Final Pot: t9328
BB shows 8 4 (a straight, Five high)
Hero shows Q Q (a pair of Queens)
BB wins t9328



Full tilt is rigged. This is bubble, all other shortstacks was sucking the **** out of bigstacks, i got sucked out by shorties 3 times in a ****ing row. And finally i got donked out lol .. Everytime i decide that i should give it a try and its not rigged this happens. **** full tilt.
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