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Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9859. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-28-2009, 08:44 PM   #526
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
An innocent bystander with no agenda whatsoever posted since. Then I managed to work dinosaurs in on my second post.

Solid stuff imo.
Nice work!
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:48 PM   #527
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Now who's the ******? Who Cant read? HMMM...You people missed the whole concept! I gaurentee you every single person that has wrote something negative about me is either working for certain online poker site or is working for 2+2. All you guys do is fuel the fire! Thats the whole point! I just wrote in english that I CANNOT PROVE IT"S RIGGED...I'm 50/50! I dont know if its rigged! But you people just went off the deep end again! Which was the point of this thread! IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM ONLINE POKER'S REPUTATION AND ANNUAL REVENUE WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?! WHY DO YOU GET SO MAD? SOMEBODY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A BOMB IN THEIR MAIL BOX? WHY THE F$%^ WOULD SOMEBODY PUT A BOMB IN YOUR MAILBOX? THAT'D BE PRETTY RANDOM AND FAR FETCHED...IN OTHER WORDS WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF THAT HAPPENING?! why would somebody rig online poker? BILLIONS OF REASONS WHY! AND ALIENS? WELL PEOPLE MADE SPECULATION THAT THEIR ARE ALIENS....WE STILL LOOKED! WE LOOKED TO SEE IF WE COULD FIND PROOF THAT THERE WASN'T...WE'RE LOOKING ON MARS FOR WATER TO SEE IF LIFE EXISTED?! IF WE WERE ALL RIGHT LIKE YOU...NASA WOULD SAY, "PROVE THERE WAS LIFE ON ANOTHER PLANET BEFORE THEN WE'LL GO LOOK!" WELL PEOPLE MADE SPECULATION...NOW NASA AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN AND ARE STILL LOOKING B/C IT'S POSSIBLE AND IT'S WORTH FINDING OUT. NASA AND THE CIA DIDN'T RIP PEOPLE APART FOR SPECULATING? DIDNT OSTRACIZE THEM FROM THE COUNTRY...THE WHOLE POINT WAS WHY DO YOU GUYS ACT LIKE THIS? WHAT HARM WOULD IT DO TO LOOK INTO? THE WAY YOU ACT IS THAT THESE POSTS COST YOU MONEY? AGAIN I ASK:ARE THESE FORUMS HERE FOR US(AS IN WE)ONLINE POKER PLAYERS OR FOR YOU?
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:50 PM   #528
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

^^^^^^
Tom Dwyer imo
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:51 PM   #529
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

LOUD NOISES!

EDIT: In after Marcusgc... removing "^^^'s"
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:52 PM   #530
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Now who's the ******? Who Cant read? HMMM...You people missed the whole concept! I gaurentee you every single person that has wrote something negative about me is either working for certain online poker site or is working for 2+2. All you guys do is fuel the fire! Thats the whole point! I just wrote in english that I CANNOT PROVE IT"S RIGGED...I'm 50/50! I dont know if its rigged! But you people just went off the deep end again! Which was the point of this thread! IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM ONLINE POKER'S REPUTATION AND ANNUAL REVENUE WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?! WHY DO YOU GET SO MAD? SOMEBODY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A BOMB IN THEIR MAIL BOX? WHY THE F$%^ WOULD SOMEBODY PUT A BOMB IN YOUR MAILBOX? THAT'D BE PRETTY RANDOM AND FAR FETCHED...IN OTHER WORDS WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF THAT HAPPENING?! why would somebody rig online poker? BILLIONS OF REASONS WHY! AND ALIENS? WELL PEOPLE MADE SPECULATION THAT THEIR ARE ALIENS....WE STILL LOOKED! WE LOOKED TO SEE IF WE COULD FIND PROOF THAT THERE WASN'T...WE'RE LOOKING ON MARS FOR WATER TO SEE IF LIFE EXISTED?! IF WE WERE ALL RIGHT LIKE YOU...NASA WOULD SAY, "PROVE THERE WAS LIFE ON ANOTHER PLANET BEFORE THEN WE'LL GO LOOK!" WELL PEOPLE MADE SPECULATION...NOW NASA AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN AND ARE STILL LOOKING B/C IT'S POSSIBLE AND IT'S WORTH FINDING OUT. NASA AND THE CIA DIDN'T RIP PEOPLE APART FOR SPECULATING? DIDNT OSTRACIZE THEM FROM THE COUNTRY...THE WHOLE POINT WAS WHY DO YOU GUYS ACT LIKE THIS? WHAT HARM WOULD IT DO TO LOOK INTO? THE WAY YOU ACT IS THAT THESE POSTS COST YOU MONEY? AGAIN I ASK:ARE THESE FORUMS HERE FOR US(AS IN WE)ONLINE POKER PLAYERS OR FOR YOU?
i usually can, but you're not helping much
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:54 PM   #531
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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LOUD NOISES!
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:58 PM   #532
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM ONLINE POKER'S REPUTATION AND ANNUAL REVENUE WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?! WHY DO YOU GET SO MAD?
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:01 PM   #533
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Now who's the ******? Who Cant read? HMMM...You people missed the whole concept! I gaurentee you every single person that has wrote something negative about me is either working for certain online poker site or is working for 2+2. All you guys do is fuel the fire! Thats the whole point! I just wrote in english that I CANNOT PROVE IT"S RIGGED...I'm 50/50! I dont know if its rigged! But you people just went off the deep end again! Which was the point of this thread! IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM ONLINE POKER'S REPUTATION AND ANNUAL REVENUE WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?! WHY DO YOU GET SO MAD? SOMEBODY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A BOMB IN THEIR MAIL BOX? WHY THE F$%^ WOULD SOMEBODY PUT A BOMB IN YOUR MAILBOX? THAT'D BE PRETTY RANDOM AND FAR FETCHED...IN OTHER WORDS WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF THAT HAPPENING?! why would somebody rig online poker? BILLIONS OF REASONS WHY! AND ALIENS? WELL PEOPLE MADE SPECULATION THAT THEIR ARE ALIENS....WE STILL LOOKED! WE LOOKED TO SEE IF WE COULD FIND PROOF THAT THERE WASN'T...WE'RE LOOKING ON MARS FOR WATER TO SEE IF LIFE EXISTED?! IF WE WERE ALL RIGHT LIKE YOU...NASA WOULD SAY, "PROVE THERE WAS LIFE ON ANOTHER PLANET BEFORE THEN WE'LL GO LOOK!" WELL PEOPLE MADE SPECULATION...NOW NASA AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN AND ARE STILL LOOKING B/C IT'S POSSIBLE AND IT'S WORTH FINDING OUT. NASA AND THE CIA DIDN'T RIP PEOPLE APART FOR SPECULATING? DIDNT OSTRACIZE THEM FROM THE COUNTRY...THE WHOLE POINT WAS WHY DO YOU GUYS ACT LIKE THIS? WHAT HARM WOULD IT DO TO LOOK INTO? THE WAY YOU ACT IS THAT THESE POSTS COST YOU MONEY? AGAIN I ASK:ARE THESE FORUMS HERE FOR US(AS IN WE)ONLINE POKER PLAYERS OR FOR YOU?
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:02 PM   #534
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
I THINK SOMEBODY GOT THE WHOLE IDEA OF THIS THREAD...NOT SAYING THERES VALIDITY OR NOT, BUT THIS WOULD BE HOW TO HANDLE THIS KIND OF THREAD PROFESSIONALLY AND HELPFULLY. I'VE HAD NUMEROUS PEOPLE SAY THEY THINK SOMETHING IS FUNNY WITH OP B/C OF HOW THESES THREADS ARE BEING HANDLED. ACTING UNPROFESSIONAL, DEFENSIVE, INSULTING, INCREDIBLY BIAS AND NARROW MINDED.
NONE THE LESS THIS IS HOW THIS THREAD AND ALL THE THREADS SHOULD OF BEEN ANSWERED!
SHOULD THEY ALL HAVE BEEN ANSWERED IN CAPITAL LETTERS?

ALSO HOW MANY OF THESE THREADS ARE TOO MUCH?

I'M ALSO CURIOUS AS TO WHO IS SAYING TO "YOU" THAT "THESES" THREADS ARE BEING HANDLED UNPROFESSIONALLY?

AND IF WE ARE NOT ANSWERING THEM PROFESSIONALLY, WOULDN'T THAT INDICATE THAT WE ARE NOT PROFESSIONALS, IE EMPLOYED BY POKER SITES?

YOU DON'T THINK IT'S IRONIC THAT THE ONE PERSON WHOSE REPLY YOU APPROVE **IS** EMPLOYED BY ONE???
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:08 PM   #535
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

why couldnt u respond to the first post? kinda made a joke of something you couldnt defend? or rationally explain? Pointing out my gramatical errors really is irrelevent...this is 2+2 dude, nobody cares to proof read and spell check like they give 2 shsssss...Marc why do I see the same people in the same posts saying the exact same things? Especially you....I bet 3 years ago when you joined 2+2 THEY WERE ORIGINAL AND MAYBE HUMEROUS.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:10 PM   #536
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelling Guy
OMEBODY SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A BOMB IN THEIR MAIL BOX? WHY THE F$%^ WOULD SOMEBODY PUT A BOMB IN YOUR MAILBOX? THAT'D BE PRETTY RANDOM AND FAR FETCHED...IN OTHER WORDS WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF THAT HAPPENING?!
Now who's the ******? Who Cant read? HMMM...You people missed the whole concept!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelling Guy
IF WE WERE ALL RIGHT LIKE YOU...NASA WOULD SAY, "PROVE THERE WAS LIFE ON ANOTHER PLANET BEFORE THEN WE'LL GO LOOK!" WELL PEOPLE MADE SPECULATION...NOW NASA AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN AND ARE STILL LOOKING B/C IT'S POSSIBLE AND IT'S WORTH FINDING OUT.
Wow, this is really simple, but you've got it all backwards. NASA can look all they want. Until they find proof of alien life, they won't say it exists for certain.

I never heard a scientist say "I can't prove there are aliens out there, but I think there are. However, I don't have the time to research and find out for sure." But I've heard quite a few rigtards say basically the same thing. Including you. In a loud, impolite manner too, I might add.

People didn't believe in dinosaurs until fossils were dug up and complete skeletons assembled. Perhaps paleontology would be more your thing.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:23 PM   #537
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
why couldnt u respond to the first post? kinda made a joke of something you couldnt defend? or rationally explain?
here was my first reply in this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
If you believe poker is rigged, tell us why. If we're not convinced, don't get upset about it.

If you want people to agree with you, go here and tell them how great you think this "article is.
I didn't make any joke of anything. I offered sensible, polite advice.
Quote:
Pointing out my gramatical errors really is irrelevent...this is 2+2 dude, nobody cares to proof read and spell check like they give 2 shsssss...
I find it hard to take people who can't spell seriously. Or people who don't have a spell-check built into their browser either. If you want to be treated with respect, show US some and try to communicate above a 4th Grade level, oh, and use your inside voice too.
Quote:
Marc why do I see the same people in the same posts saying the exact same things?
Tom, why can't you spell my name correctly? It's Mark. If you can't read that, I have less faith in your ability to bring useful information to this discussion.

I'm not trying to be funny, either. But FFS man, do you think you're breaking new ground here? Do you really think you're in any way helping us? I suspect it's more for YOUR own ego, to make you feel better about sucking at poker and as an added bonus saving us from the evil online poker sites.

Ya know what? We don't want your help. We've heard theories about your feelings and how "something just isn't right" for years. We still play and still win.

You come on here right when Rigtard #1 Stevie-boy shows up and get all bent out of shape that people don't take you seriously. Why would we? I'll tell you when we will:

WHEN YOU BRING SOME ****ING EVIDENCE WITH YOU NUMBSKULL!!!

Please, go back to kicking your dog every time you get outplayed and don't understand why. And leave us the **** alone. Ok? Thanks, take care.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:25 PM   #538
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
why couldnt u respond to the first post?
What's there to respond to? You said
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Let me say this to start with. I have NO proof that ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED. I don't believe every site that is available to play poker on is CHEATING. At the same time, I don't have proof that it's not rigged. Things do appear odd sometimes I will admit that makes me speculate things could be rigged. At the same time, things happen that make me speculate that it is realistic and my hands hold up like they should.
which amounts to nothing. Also, what about your hand "holding up like they should" makes it more realistic? Most hands, you're an 80% favorite at best. 20% of the time, they shouldn't hold up. Hands "holding up like they should" would be good evidence of a rigged site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
IF YOU WERE EMPLOYED BY THIS SITE, OR ANY ONLINE POKER SITE, I'D TERMINATE YOUR EMPLOYMENT AS WELL AS THE REST OF THEM.
If you had the ability to terminate me, I'd quit.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:26 PM   #539
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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IF YOU WERE EMPLOYED BY THIS SITE, OR ANY ONLINE POKER SITE, I'D TERMINATE YOUR EMPLOYMENT
Then I guess it's lucky I'm not employed by this or any other site. At least not in the sense you mean it, anyway. I do make my living playing online poker, but not by posting on 2+2 about it. Thanks for reinforcing my point though!
Quote:
IT SHOULD BE A DISCUSSION AND NOT A LYNCHING.
Pro Tip: Generally, discussions are done in a civil tone.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:28 PM   #540
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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WHO IS WE? AB AND UB IS MY EVIDENCE...
great, thanks for sharing. we'll take your position under advisement and let you know our decision.

Now who's up for some Golden Tee?
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:32 PM   #541
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Question Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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WHO IS WE? AB AND UB IS MY EVIDENCE...


AB?
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:36 PM   #542
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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UMMM ANOTHER IDIOT NOT KNOWING WHAT WE WAS TALKING ABOUT...NOT THAT POST BUT THE ONE BEFORE THAT ONE MADE ABOUT 20 MINUTES AGO...
Well then that wouldn't be your "first" post, would it?

It's awesome how you've now resorted to posting in all caps and calling people idiots.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:41 PM   #543
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

First I'd like to say that we MUST discuss the possibility of the sites being rigged. Scaring fish away is not a good reason not to. If we can come to the conclusion that it is not - it will be good for online poker. If we come to the conclusion that it is - we can take action to make it more accountable.

The fact is that I'm going almost insane from my last 12 months. I believe I've ran at (way) more than 100bi under EV for about 300-400k$ on 3-4 different sites (UB, Prima and Boss mostly). I've said that online poker is rigged so many times lately, that I'm becoming afraid for my mental health. The only site that I have won consistently at (9PTBB/100 at hu over a large sample) is ipoker. No reason to advertise it, but I just hate every other site I played with a passion.
So yeah, I believe that either online poker is rigged or I'm somewhat cursed. Maybe they **** with players from small countries like Bulgaria more? Dunno.

The reality is that there is no good reason for sites not to be rigged. We're so used to ignoring the randomness, that it takes a couple of tenhigh calldowns for us to see that there is in fact foul play involved. Imagine if I was given a superuser account. I'd play all day without useing it - completely stress free. Only on occasion when I have a borderline decision I'd take a peak if I cannot decide what to do after 30secs. This way I'd have a guaranteed super high winrate and never look suspicious to anyone.
And why do you think this is not happening? Really - why not?
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:47 PM   #544
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by Alobar View Post
Who actually reads past the first sentence in these things? I know thats where I stopped.
Actually I read the second sentence and then stopped ;-)
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:04 PM   #545
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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The reality is that there is no good reason for sites not to be rigged.
There's no good reason my local supermarket doesn't mix in pig testicles with the ground beef I buy, but I guess I'm gullible enough to believe that they don't. And I'll keep buying it until a reliable study shows they do.

The same principal applies here.
Quote:
We're so used to ignoring the randomness, that it takes a couple of tenhigh calldowns for us to see that there is in fact foul play involved.
umm, it takes more than a "couple tenhigh calldowns" for me, and I think most, to be convinced there's "foul play."
Quote:
Imagine if I was given a superuser account. I'd play all day without useing it - completely stress free. Only on occasion when I have a borderline decision I'd take a peak if I cannot decide what to do after 30secs. This way I'd have a guaranteed super high winrate and never look suspicious to anyone.
A superuser account is not the same as "rigging." That said, would a superuser account counteract "rigging?" Seeing an opponents hole cards would only allow you to make the optimal play AT THE RIVER. It wouldn't keep your opponent from hitting his miracle 1-outer there. And if it "never" looked suspicious to anyone, then people like Josem wouldn't have ever taken the time to form a hypothesis, gather and analyze data to support it and THEN present it to others for consideration. When he did that, people discussed the merits of his (and others') work and decided there was something to it. Threads like this are light-years from an example such as that.

I hope this was "professional" enough a response. I am an amateur, you know. Be gentle with me.

Last edited by Markusgc; 01-28-2009 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:10 PM   #546
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

cliffs of this nine page thread?

just rambling b/s about online poker being rigged, or something better? anyone?
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:11 PM   #547
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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UMMM ANOTHER IDIOT NOT KNOWING WHAT WE WAS TALKING ABOUT...
you're cute. do you like Golden Tee?
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:13 PM   #548
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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cliffs of this nine page thread?

just rambling b/s about online poker being rigged, or something better? anyone?
cliff's:
  • ZBBmraz has his options at something other than 100 posts
    per page.
  • One of stephenmeare's leftovers is very angry that his opinions aren't being given the professional attention they deserve.
  • Golden Tee is rigged.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:19 PM   #549
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
cliff's:
  • ZBBmraz has his options at something other than 100 posts
  • One of stephenmeare's leftovers is very angry that his opinions aren't being given the professional attention they deserve.
  • Golden Tee is rigged.
Cliffs:

so relevant cliffs anyone?
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:24 PM   #550
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Re: The Outside Looking In? Online Poker

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Cliffs:

so relevant cliffs anyone?
that is them. really. there has been absolutely nothing more interesting than what I mentioned.

and thanks for removing your original insults in reaction to a friendly suggestion on how to enjoy the forum better.
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