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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 06-18-2009, 04:57 PM   #5001
Rounding4Rent
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Do you have any argument other than:
Yes. From my personal experience and the comparison to countless others. Believe me when I tell you that i've spoken to hundreds of people who have experienced the same things. I've lost probably close to ten thousand of my own dollars on online poker (im a consistent winner live and am close to playing for a living). I've been on every single US site you could think of. The "patterns" we speak of are recognizable on every site. The "short-stack miracle", the set up hands in precise timing in accordance with account history/previous actions, the "initial deposit boost", etc. This is no coincidence. Although you come on the 2+2 forums and read about all these "successful online pro's" you don't read about the one's who lose it all or the LIVE pro players who simply will not play on online poker because they know the truth.
Let me also tell you that I used to be a winning online player.

the fishy business that has occurred in online poker in the last few years is REDICULOUS.
(Beyond the rigging - Do you guys actually know how many people use bots online? I know atleast 5 people personally who use numerous bots at many different sites to play tournaments/cash tables.)
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Old 06-18-2009, 04:57 PM   #5002
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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And you really don't see the difference between slot machines and poker?
Maybe you're the one thats alittle bit "stupid". I was making a point - I guess you missed it.
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Old 06-18-2009, 04:58 PM   #5003
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Yes. From my personal experience and the comparison to countless others. Believe me when I tell you that i've spoken to hundreds of people who have
r4r has anecdotal evidence.... thats the best kind i hear... /thread i guess the rigtards win.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:04 PM   #5004
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

PS is sending me my whole hand history. They said it will take a while. lol

I don't think my PT3 or HEM work, where can I plug these in?
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:06 PM   #5005
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DOES THE DOOM SWITCH EXIST?

WELL IVE HEARD ABOUT SUCH A THING BUT QUITE HONESTLY I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE, ALTHOUGH IVE SEEN SO MUCH WIERD STUFF ON BOTH FTP AND STARS THAT I THINK THE RNG IS NOT 100% AT EITHER SITE.
IVE READ THAT STARS SPECIFICALLY HAS A DOOM SWITCH AND THERE ARE STEPS ONE CAN TAKE TO REMOVE IT ALTHOUGH IT WILL COME BACK AGAIN AT SOME PIONT BUT WHAT ABOUT FTP DOES THAT HAVE SUCH A SWITCH?
NOW IF THERE IS SUCH A THING AS THE DOOM SWITCH THEN WHY ARE THERE WINNING PLAYERS IN ONLINE POKER, DOES THE DOOM SWITCH AFFECT EVERYONE IF SO WHY ARE THERE WINNING PLAYERS? IF IT DOESNT THEN WHAT IS THE CRITERIOR FOR BEING DOOMED?
LASTLY GOING BACK TO THE RNGs NOT BEING ACURATE THEN ARE THERE PEOPLE THAT HAVE LEARNED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF CERTAIN SITUATIONS LIKE CHASING THAT FLUSH DRAW OR LETTING OTHERS GET THE RIGHT PRICE IN DRAWING CAUSE THEY KNOW ITS NOT GONNA HIT ECT?
NOW I KNOW THAT THIS POST IS GONNA RUB SOME PEOPLE THE WRONG WAY BUT WITHOUT DISCUSSION WE WILL NEVER FIND OUT
LETS HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:06 PM   #5006
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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r4r has anecdotal evidence.... thats the best kind i hear... /thread i guess the rigtards win

OK, LETS SET THE BAR ON "EVIDENCE"..
The average player (you and I) does not have the resources to obtain such "evidence". I've provided close to 150K hand histories of players runnning WAY under expected value but even I know that 150K is NOTHING.
The theory of "timing" also cannot be proven concretely.
But because we are not able to obtain such evidence, does that mean that these sites are not rigged? Do you really think that if these sites were rigged it would be so easy to be detected?? Come on..
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:07 PM   #5007
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Re: DOES THE DOOM SWITCH EXIST?

NO
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:07 PM   #5008
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Re: DOES THE DOOM SWITCH EXIST?

This post is so important you shoul SCREAM IT FROM THE MOUNTIANTOPS
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:08 PM   #5009
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Re: DOES THE DOOM SWITCH EXIST?

Online poker is rigged.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:10 PM   #5010
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
OK, LETS SET THE BAR ON "EVIDENCE"..
The average player (you and I) does not have the resources to obtain such "evidence". I've provided close to 150K hand histories of players runnning WAY under expected value
No you didn't, you posted a graph. Please arrange to provide all 150K hand histories for an analysis and I'll arrange to have it done.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:11 PM   #5011
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Re: DOES THE DOOM SWITCH EXIST?

YES, I'M DOOMED

Juk
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:11 PM   #5012
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Yes. From my personal experience and the comparison to countless others. Believe me when I tell you that i've spoken to hundreds of people who have experienced the same things. I've lost probably close to ten thousand of my own dollars on online poker (im a consistent winner live and am close to playing for a living). I've been on every single US site you could think of. The "patterns" we speak of are recognizable on every site. The "short-stack miracle", the set up hands in precise timing in accordance with account history/previous actions, the "initial deposit boost", etc. This is no coincidence. Although you come on the 2+2 forums and read about all these "successful online pro's" you don't read about the one's who lose it all or the LIVE pro players who simply will not play on online poker because they know the truth.
Let me also tell you that I used to be a winning online player.

the fishy business that has occurred in online poker in the last few years is REDICULOUS.
(Beyond the rigging - Do you guys actually know how many people use bots online? I know atleast 5 people personally who use numerous bots at many different sites to play tournaments/cash tables.)
Perhaps instead of making accusations about poker sites without proof you should be reporting people you know to be cheating. Or are you just a scumbag who has no problem with these people?

If you know about all these patterns why are you still a huge online losing player. Either you are too stupid to exploit them or they simply don't exist. Which is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Maybe you're the one thats alittle bit "stupid". I was making a point - I guess you missed it.
Yes, I suspect everybody would have missed it. Please explain further for those of us without your rediculous intellect.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:12 PM   #5013
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Re: DOES THE DOOM SWITCH EXIST?

It does when you suck at poker.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:16 PM   #5014
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
It makes me sick to see you guys defending these poker sites to the death like they are run by your next door neighbor. This is the problem with people today, people judge books by their covers. You see a couple "successful" people running around posting positive EV graphs and see people like Tom Dwan on ESPN and that is automatic justification that online poker cannot be rigged. You're being lured into something and you don't even realize it.
This actually gives a bit more insight into the mind of a riggedologist.

A lot of the anger derives from being mad at people who will not blindly believe what they believe about the sites being rigged (whether in reality due to them being a bad player/having a bit of bad luck whatever) so that anger builds and they fight back.

The whole comparison to Dwan is silly. There are tons of solid winning players and more bad losing players, Dwan does not matter. That is the nature of the poker economy. Same thing for live poker though on average the skill is much lower. Search the sharkscope graph thread to see tons of winners and losers.

You are right in one thing, lots of people judge books by their covers, which is why you see so many rigged theories based on nothing but a few bad beats, selective memory , and a ton of rationalization.

I mean can you show even a shred of proof of anything in any of your posts? I mean even a tiny sliver of actual proof? No, your only "proof" is your beliefs and your disdain for others who will not blindly agree. Falls short in the proof category based on real world definitions.

In other areas of real life would you take similar accusations of massive conspiracies on face value from random people with paranoid tendencies?

That is the issue many face when confronted with die hard riggedologists.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Yes. From my personal experience and the comparison to countless others. Believe me when I tell you that i've spoken to hundreds of people who have experienced the same things. I've lost probably close to ten thousand of my own dollars on online poker (im a consistent winner live and am close to playing for a living). I've been on every single US site you could think of. The "patterns" we speak of are recognizable on every site. The "short-stack miracle", the set up hands in precise timing in accordance with account history/previous actions, the "initial deposit boost", etc. This is no coincidence. Although you come on the 2+2 forums and read about all these "successful online pro's" you don't read about the one's who lose it all or the LIVE pro players who simply will not play on online poker because they know the truth.
Let me also tell you that I used to be a winning online player.

the fishy business that has occurred in online poker in the last few years is REDICULOUS.
(Beyond the rigging - Do you guys actually know how many people use bots online? I know atleast 5 people personally who use numerous bots at many different sites to play tournaments/cash tables.)
Basically this proves you are not nearly as good a player as you think you are. Reality can be mean at times.

And by the way, your "short stack miracle" beliefs go against most people's "big stacks win too much" rigged beliefs. Try to avoid that in future when creating your beliefs.

All the best.

Last edited by Monteroy; 06-18-2009 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:16 PM   #5015
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Do you really think that if these sites were rigged it would be so easy to be detected?? Come on..
There are an awful lot of rigtards in here who seem to think they can detect it just by looking. Is your statistical analysis and memory better than Pokertrackers? Do you not see the logical flaw in your argument?

Last edited by Bingo_Boy; 06-18-2009 at 05:19 PM. Reason: When i say "see" i actually mean "understand the repeated explanations of"
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:16 PM   #5016
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Re: ONLINE POKER IS RIGGED 100%

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Originally Posted by sinner View Post
i dont believe online poker is rigged. i just have a sac.
no reason for FTP/PS to rig it. they make too much in rake. smaller sites tho, i wouldnt play on

Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $46.45
UTG+1: $83.80
MP1: $36.00
MP2: $343.10
CO: $200.00
BTN: $152.75
SB: $156.40
Hero (BB): $203.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BB with A K
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $12, 3 folds, Hero raises to $124, 2 folds, MP2 calls $112

Flop: ($253.00) K 7 Q (2 players)
Hero bets $79 all in, MP2 calls $79

Turn: ($411.00) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($411.00) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $411.00
MP2 shows A 8 (three of a kind, Eights)
Hero shows A K (two pair, Kings and Eights)
MP2 wins $408.00
(Rake: $3.00)
This is beyond belief.

Clear evidence of site protecting fish IMO.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:19 PM   #5017
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Re: DOES THE DOOM SWITCH EXIST?

CAN YOU GUYS PLEASE BE QUIET I'M TRYING TO WORK

thank you
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:22 PM   #5018
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Re: DOES THE DOOM SWITCH EXIST?

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Originally Posted by gtpitch View Post
CAN YOU GUYS PLEASE BE QUIET I'M TRYING TO WORK

thank you
haha, nice
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:25 PM   #5019
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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There are an awful lot of rigtards in here who seem to think they can detect it just by looking. Is your statistical analysis and memory better than Pokertrackers? Do you not see the logical flaw in your argument?
My man, wtf are you talking about?

Did you miss this:
The average player (you and I) does not have the resources to obtain such "evidence". I've provided close to 150K hand histories of players runnning WAY under expected value but even I know that 150K is NOTHING.
The theory of "timing" also cannot be proven concretely.
But because we are not able to obtain such evidence, does that mean that these sites are not rigged? Do you really think that if these sites were rigged it would be so easy to be detected?? Come on..


Did you also miss the countless graphs I posted from POKERTRACKER???
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:30 PM   #5020
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
It's coming. I've been tweaking the significance tests and some other stuff but my code is almost ready to run on the billion hand history at pokerftp.com. I have three different types of analysis that will be run soon, one on preflop all-ins done to a fine granularity of equity buckets, one on board card distribution (which you've seen small samples of already showing the card removal effect), and one on board types distribution by street (to show there are no "action flops"). All of them will be broken down by site and by stakes.

I'm pretty sure it will be the most comprehensive hand history analysis ever done.
What exactly are you intending to disprove or prove with this analysis.

A large volume of HH is useless and unscientific.

What needs to be done are lots of smaller tests under the same circumstances, for example to study the "initial luck" or "boomswitch theory" and "cashout curse".
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:31 PM   #5021
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by K13 View Post
Winning online = being good at poker lol

My mom can win online.

If regulated companies commit fraud, what's stopping unregulated ones?
Hi K13,

Welcome back. I notice that you still haven't addressed whether you admit you were wrong about the frequency of Aces coming on the flop. Why is that?
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:34 PM   #5022
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
What exactly are you intending to disprove or prove with this analysis.

A large volume of HH is useless and unscientific.

What needs to be done are lots of smaller tests under the same circumstances, for example to study the "initial luck" or "boomswitch theory" and "cashout curse".

or you can just post a single hand and say that is proof.

Certainly works for some
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:43 PM   #5023
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Jspirit88 View Post
Players do very predictable things with favorable cards. Thats a no brainer.
I missed this on the first pass, but just wanted to highlight how incredibly erroneous this is.

The whole point of poker - and the whole reason it exists as a competitive contest - is because different players don't do predictable thigns when facing similar situations. A good player's entire edge in poker comes out of the concept of recipricocity - they play their hand differently to how a bad player would, and consequently, make profit equal to the difference between the two different plays.

The fact that poker exists is self-evident proof that players do not do very predictable things.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:44 PM   #5024
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
QPW, bro, honestly - who the hell are you???

you talk to people like they are below you. you respond to every and each post with insults and half-assed answers that dont even BEGIN to actually answer or help anything. do yourself a favor and just stay out of the big-boy conversation
I know who he is.

Im 100% sure that he's a paid Online Poker shill.

He won't say what he does for a living. He won't say where he supposedly plays poker(becasue he s paid to defend it, hence he knows it's rigged) or what limits. He won't post a hand he's played. He won't hear a bad word spoken about his beloved poker and if anyone does say anything bad or questions his beloved OP he's straight in with his incoherent responses and insults looking to turn a serious issue into a childish argument. In his mind (whether he really believs it or not) everyone quesioning is a rigtard(******ed) or an idiot. To me anyone who has absolute faith in OP is anidiot/nieve or is lying about their belief.
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:44 PM   #5025
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
What exactly are you intending to disprove or prove with this analysis.

A large volume of HH is useless and unscientific.

What needs to be done are lots of smaller tests under the same circumstances, for example to study the "initial luck" or "boomswitch theory" and "cashout curse".
Those are real, no need to test them.
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