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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 06-18-2009, 01:58 PM   #4951
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by UncleDeezie View Post
qpw, You remind of the bible-thumping priest who once chastised a little boy for eating a ham sandwich on a Friday while he was starving. Are you a bible-thumper in real life?
So this was a Roman Catholic Jewis priest, was it?

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Call me crazy for wanting hard evidence.
You are crazy. Not for wanting hard evidence but for not understanding the limits of evidence that can be obtained and for having idiotic notions that some completely unworkable technique (third part inspection) will do things that it hasn't a hope in hell of doing.

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Yes, make me out to be a lunatic
Actually, you do a superb job of that all by yourself.

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You can try your marginalizing techniques all you want
I don't need to marginalise you. You have marginalised yourwelf by being a complete moron.

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but the reality is is that YOU are the one idiotic one for believing everything the major poker sites are feeding you.
The poker sites haven't fed me anything.

I have formed an opinion on the basis of the lack of any credible evidence that they are rigging the game. When one site did rig the game it was found out pretty damn quickly.

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I have an agnostic belief about this, if you will. I neither think that OLP poker is rigged or that it isn't rigged. I just don't know.
That doesn't stop you being an idiot.

Being agnostic about a diety that created the universe is one thing. Being agnostic about furrry, invisible, pink dragons living at the end of your garden is another.

Guess which catagory you fall into?

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That's why it would be nice for there to be some sort...hell, any sort...of hard, concrete evidence confirming that it is 100% legit.
There is evidence available that is as hard as it's going to get.

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The only way I believe this could be done is with a massive analysis of hand histories from a massive amount of players.
You've got it.

And do you believe that PS actually, definitely, gave the company that did the analysis the exact hands that were used?

If you do, case closed, you can go away happy.

If you don't you are a true rigtard.

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This little argument can be dropped though because obviously your hardcore right wing, conservative stance on this won't budge
You mean the one that actually wants a tiny shred of evidence that there even is some wrongdoing before believing that someone is guilty of it?

Yes, very right wing and conservative.

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and my logical central stance on this won't budge either.
The sad thing is that you actually believe that your idiotic non evidentially supported paranoia is logical and central.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:00 PM   #4952
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by K13 View Post
Winning online = being good at poker lol

My mom can win online.
Why don't you get some lessons from her?

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If regulated companies commit fraud, what's stopping unregulated ones?
In other words, what's the difference.

Might just as well not bother.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:03 PM   #4953
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I'm with the "rigged" crowd.

And I'm kind of almost 100% sure that there's select times where the "Action Flops" button is hit. Even though it's turned on only for a few minutes at a time, if you're one of the sorry SOB's caught in a hand during this time, it is devastating to your confidence..

..now, if I can just figure out when it is that the button gets pushed..
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:11 PM   #4954
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
No matter how many audits are carried out and in how much detail they will simply say that the audited code and controls are bypassed.
That's not true. Just like in financial services a good auditor would spot discrepancies, a good code auditor could spot some kind of cover up. If I knew that every programmer had access to the base source code, and I saw that code, I'd be content that there isn't some massive conspiracy among all of them.

Like I said, the only way I think something like that could be pulled off, is if the *shuffled deck* object is created and maintained by a very small group of programmers, and to all the other programmers this object functions as something of a black box. IE - it just spits out cards when requested of it. If that were the case, and I was auditing the code, I would want to do a lot more digging into the source code for the shuffled deck, see some live builds of the code in action, randomly access a few servers poking around for alternate code, etc.


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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
If you are worried your only intelligent recourse is to learn a great deal about probability maths and computer programming and test large hand histories yourself.
My concern on that would be that any card discrepancies that would show up from favoring the kind of players I described (new, Euro, been gone for a while, etc.) might be so slight - that I don't think we could guarantee they would be statistically significant. It's very hard to say how much more often those people would need to suckout, which would lead to I guess slightly higher chances of aces (which would also be canceled out by the lower chance of aces we expect to observe - but by how much?), or lower cards maybe? And if the bias is also slanted against good players not sucking out as much, maybe the cards still end up distributing evenly. This I think is a very interesting problem. And it could very well be after working on the problem a while, one could come up with a convincing thesis that given the kind of rigging I described you would see some anomolies. But I don't think you can just wave your hands and say that any kind of rigging would definitely show up in a giant card distribution.

Also, again just for the sake of argument, lets say there's some threshold for the rigging to occur - like showdowns of more than 1/2 buyin in equity. IF the software was smart enough to rig in these spots, it wouldn't be much tougher for it to keep track of the two cards involved in the rigging (the one that should have been dealt and the one that was) and then just swap those two cards later in some meaningless spot (IE if the "rig" card comes up in a meaningless spot, use the "replaced" card instead). I'm pretty sure that would nullify any anomalies that would show up in a card distribution. Maybe a card distribution of only high equity showdowns would be more useful. Has anyone done one of those?


Again, to be clear I don't think there's very much realistic chance of any of this being true. I just would like to *know* that it isn't, at least to the same degree of certainty that I know bank transaction software isn't screwing me (it's been tested, audited, ISO certified, Sarbanes-Oxley compliant, etc).

Oh yeah, I know Josem IRL and trust him. If he tells me he asked around and the shuffled deck object isn't a black box, that's good enough for me. Just don't ask the old timey guy, ask a new guy.

Last edited by suzzer99; 06-18-2009 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:21 PM   #4955
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
The facts are that despite mirrions of poker players watching the OLP sites like hawks there is no evidence that OLP is rigged.

From these facts I believe that there is an vanishingly small probability that OLP is rigged.

Seems very sensible to me.

Your position, based on the same (lack of) evidence is that you are 'concerned' and would like some 'third party' like some machina ex deus to verify that all is well.

You are paranoind because you have serious concerns without a single shred of credible evidence and you are delusional because you have some blind faith that a 'third party' could fathom out some truth about the riggedness of a site that isn't apparant from the scrutiny of mirrions of players.



Oh yes you are.

And a particularly stupid one because you have some daft belief that a PS that was up to no good would be unable to pull the wool over the eyes of some 'third party'.

They could show him all the software listings under the sun together with diagrammes and schematics of their entire operation but there is nothing in the world to say that they are running the software that he sees or that if they are at the time he visits they won't change it for a rigged version the moment his back is turned.



You write that with not the vaguest idea of just how idiotic you make yourself appear with your wholly inconsistant ideas.

You've explained very clearly why it would be absurd for an OLP site to rig the software, and the reasons you give are good.

Then you spoil it all by reitterating the idiotic belief that some third party is in some way less likely to be duped and can verify the operation of the site. There is just no sense whatsoever to that position.

QPW, bro, honestly - who the hell are you???

you talk to people like they are below you. you respond to every and each post with insults and half-assed answers that dont even BEGIN to actually answer or help anything. do yourself a favor and just stay out of the big-boy conversation
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:28 PM   #4956
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
QPW, bro, honestly - who the hell are you???
I'm your worst nightmare.

The one you haven't even had yet and cannot begin to imagine.

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you talk to people like they are below you.
Only those who self evidently are (in the subject under discussion).

If someone comes on here and spouts idiocy I simply mention the fact.

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you respond to every and each post
You see there's the problem with you idiot rigtards right there.

You post outright lies that even the most mentally feeble could spot a mile off.

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... answers that dont even BEGIN to actually answer or help anything.
You mean answers that you find inconvenient because they show anyone who isn't a complete moron (which lets you out, BTW) that the probability of any rigging going on is minimal.

Keep banging the rocks together.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:28 PM   #4957
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
So this was a Roman Catholic Jewis priest, was it?



You are crazy. Not for wanting hard evidence but for not understanding the limits of evidence that can be obtained
LMFAO THE LIMITS OF EVIDENCE?????????? If the evidence is limited (speaking of... WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?) then how can you be so sure it's not rigged, buddy?

QPW, you honestly make me laugh while I read your responses. Half of it makes no sense, repeats what someone else has said before you, or is filled with constant insults. Why are you here??
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:33 PM   #4958
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

QPW posts: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/se...archid=8605638

hahaha, find a girl man.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:34 PM   #4959
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
Why are you here??
If you think OLP is rigged, why do you play and why are you here? masochist?

Last edited by batair; 06-18-2009 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:36 PM   #4960
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
QPW, bro, honestly - who the hell are you???

you talk to people like they are below you. you respond to every and each post with insults and half-assed answers that dont even BEGIN to actually answer or help anything. do yourself a favor and just stay out of the big-boy conversation
This post is ironic in so many ways.

PS. Just a tip: links to searches you did don't work. One day maybe you'll get the hang of this forum thing.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:40 PM   #4961
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
If the evidence is limited (speaking of... WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE?) then how can you be so sure it's not rigged, buddy?
It's called 'logical inference'.

Don't bother - you'll only give yourself a headache.

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QPW, you honestly make me laugh while I read your responses.
I think you mean you giggle nervously like a little girl.

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Half of it makes no sense
Makes no sense to you, maybe.

Tell you what, perhaps I'll try and use monosylabic (look it up) words and very short sentences to make it easy for you.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:41 PM   #4962
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

qpw has a forum ego, how cute
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:42 PM   #4963
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Re: Rounding4Rent.

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Originally Posted by batair View Post
If you think OLP is rigged, way do you play and why are you here? masochist?
Just too dumb to know when to bail out.

I suspect that if he hit his head against a brick wall (assuming he felt it) he would continue to do so all the while complaining to anyone that would listen that the wall was rigged against him and demanding that walls be regulated by the US government.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:48 PM   #4964
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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If you think OLP is rigged, way do you play and why are you here? masochist?
I'm here because my fellow americans are being ripped off on a LARGE scale and half of them are too ignorant to realize it. Real talk

Quote:
I suspect that if he hit his head against a brick wall (assuming he felt it) he would continue to do so all the while complaining to anyone that would listen that the wall was rigged against him and demanding that walls be regulated by the US government.
Hey atleast you have a sense of humor! Why not get off the keyboard and use it in the real world??
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:53 PM   #4965
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Re: Rounding4Rent.



Just too dumb to know when to bail out.

I suspect that if he hit his head against a brick wall (assuming he felt it) he would continue to do so all the while complaining to anyone that would listen that the wall was rigged against him and demanding that walls be regulated by the US government.
lol... seriously i don't get it just stop playing that way they can avoid the house bots, shills, new player bonus, cashout curse, action induced flops, timing, golden accounts...

Last edited by batair; 06-18-2009 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:54 PM   #4966
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm here because my fellow americans are being ripped off on a LARGE scale and half of them are too ignorant to realize it. Real talk
Yes but the banks are under a lot more scrutiny at the moment so something might be done.

Or were you talking about medical insurance and hospital scams?

As far as on line poker goes, at least the people of Europe and Asia are under the protection of the Lizard People so have nothing to fear.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:55 PM   #4967
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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lol... seriously i don't get it.

now that I actually read what he wrote - I don't either.

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Hey atleast you have a sense of humor! Why not get off the keyboard and use it in the real world??
Scratch that. Just stay inside..
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:56 PM   #4968
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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lol... seriously i don't get it.
Well, apparantly he's here because his 'fellow americans' (whom he does not have the courtesy to capitalize) are being ripped of on a 'LARGE' scale.

Note the big letters for 'large' which means it must be serious.
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:56 PM   #4969
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm here because my fellow americans are being ripped off on a LARGE scale and half of them are too ignorant to realize it. Real talk
All the evidence points to the deal not being rigged. You're on a baseless crusade.


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Hey atleast you have a sense of humor! Why not get off the keyboard and use it in the real world??
Oh, that's swell. Making fun of someone for posting on an internet message board...via a post on an internet message board. You're a class act!
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Old 06-18-2009, 02:58 PM   #4970
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
now that I actually read what he wrote - I don't either.
No, dear boy.

He just doesn't get why someone who believes they are being ripped of by OLP (that's you, that is) doesn't just go and do something else.

He probably hasn't encountered the lower level of moron yet.
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:08 PM   #4971
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm here because my fellow americans are being ripped off on a LARGE scale and half of them are too ignorant to realize it. Real talk
So im being ripped off? How? proof? What do you suggest i do about it?

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Originally Posted by Rounding4Rent View Post
now that I actually read what he wrote - I don't either.
I understood what he wrote. What i dont understand is why someone who thinks he's being ripped off by a company would continue to use that company.
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:12 PM   #4972
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm here because my fellow americans are being ripped off on a LARGE scale and half of them are too ignorant to realize it. Real talk
Only Americans? Or you just don't care about the anyone who isn't American?
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:13 PM   #4973
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Only Americans? Or you just don't care about the anyone who isn't American?
Maybe he thinks the rigging is geo-targeted.
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:14 PM   #4974
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Oh, that's swell. Making fun of someone for posting on an internet message board...via a post on an internet message board. You're a class act!
He just doesn't know the meaning of the word 'irony'.

He probably thinks it indicates a metalic nature.
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:19 PM   #4975
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Maybe he thinks the rigging is geo-targeted.
That's a common theme. Riggedologists don't think about the players who are in highly regulated countries (yes, poker sites are regulated in many countries), or even living in the jurisdiction of the site, getting the exact same game and in fact sitting at the same table with Americans. Somehow the site just cheats the Americans since they can get away with it. I suppose if you live in the UK you always win against Americans. Pretty sweet deal for the brits.
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