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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-15-2009, 06:41 PM   #4776
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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detectable apparently only by 2+2 people and their statistics. They went to far obviously.
you are right that the various 'rigtards' made no worthwhile contribution to the detection of this.
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:51 PM   #4777
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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link, please.

http://www.myspace.com/nemesis65
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:52 PM   #4778
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

THIS IS WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:54 PM   #4779
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Before I go accusing, say, Barack Obama of being corrupt I'm going to have to prove it. If my argument is "lots of politicians are corrupt" therefore "Obama is corrupt" then I'll seem like a nut, just as you are coming across in this thread.

Not to mention all of the evidence provided in this thread points to the RNG not being rigged. Check out some previous posts by Spadebidder that include a lot of stats. Does it rule it out, no. But you haven't been ruled out as being a murderer who actually lives in prison; however, based on the amount you have been posting today I can say that you PROBABLY aren't in prison.
I'm not accusing "Obama" just politicians in general. I'm sure like politicians there are honest poker sites.....hmmmm....wait that may be an oxymoron...."honest politician."
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:56 PM   #4780
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

you're an oxymoron
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Old 06-15-2009, 06:57 PM   #4781
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
We don't know; they may well have been. However, a rigging scandal would almost definitely need to be run by the company itself.


I can't imagine any way one could rig an RNG to benefit only certain players that wouldn't be incredibly easy to spot.


LOL. I doubt very much there will ever be a trial, unfortunately.
In theory if Hamilton and his crew kept their winnings reasonable they would have gone undetectable.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:00 PM   #4782
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

detectable apparently only by 2+2 people and their statistics. They went to far obviously.
The victims knew something was wrong, do you call them riggedologists or rigtards? no, because their intuition was spot on. Which proves a healthy dose of skepticism is the only way to go.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:00 PM   #4783
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I'm glad this thread has proven online poker is not rigged. I used to think that routinely losing 20+ races in row, all-in preflop, in which I was no worse than 47% to win per race, was suspicious. It's good to know that's just normal variance.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:02 PM   #4784
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

The RNG only needs to be bypassed.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:05 PM   #4785
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

your dad should have bypassed your mom
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:07 PM   #4786
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Jspirit88 View Post
detectable apparently only by 2+2 people and their statistics. They went to far obviously.
The victims knew something was wrong, do you call them riggedologists or rigtards? no, because their intuition was spot on. Which proves a healthy dose of skepticism is the only way to go.
but even the victims who suspected something was wrong provided evidence to support their claims.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:50 PM   #4787
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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In theory if Hamilton and his crew kept their winnings reasonable they would have gone undetectable.
Um, yeah, another way in which a super user is totally different than RNG rigging. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jspirit88 View Post
The victims knew something was wrong, do you call them riggedologists or rigtards? no, because their intuition was spot on. Which proves a healthy dose of skepticism is the only way to go.
Sigh. Maybe those of you that join this "debate" late don't understand the difference.

There are people that start threads telling us how rigged online poker is because of what they observed. They of course have no data to back this up, for a whole variety of reasons. But they "know" it's rigged. These are the people that are called names like rigtard and are met with great derision.

Then you have people like those that that first broke the AP/UB scandal. They came with actual hand histories, and verifiable data. While there were a few sceptics (there always will be in any Internet forum), the claims were looked into by others and the investigation quickly snowballed.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:54 PM   #4788
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

So I heard about these two guys once, who were on AIM telling each other their hole cards, and so I wrote to full tilt support telling them how ****ing rigged their RNG is.
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Old 06-15-2009, 07:55 PM   #4789
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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So I heard about these two guys once, who were on AIM telling each other their hole cards, and so I wrote to full tilt support telling them how ****ing rigged their RNG is.
sounds like shill-talk to me.
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The RNG only needs to be bypassed.
for certain players in certain hands?
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:00 PM   #4790
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Who Posted?
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:18 PM   #4791
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

This theory ages gracefully like wine.

Somehow we now have a new bad beat poster that makes me miss that K guy's posts.

And the new riggedologist does not even have any specific theories, just a list of what if / it could happen statements with no connection to reality other then sometime in the past a crime took place somewhere by somebody.


Alas, the "flush draws hit too much" days of innocence are behind us.
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Old 06-15-2009, 08:20 PM   #4792
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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And the new riggedologist does not even have any specific theories, just a list of what if / it could happen statements with no connection to reality other then sometime in the past a crime took place somewhere by somebody.
If the U.S. used an atom bomb on Hiroshima, why couldn't Pit Bull Poker do the same? They're a rogue, offshore site not regulated by any recognizable governmental entity.

IF IT CAN HAPPEN IT WILL.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:58 PM   #4793
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Why not an individual or a group of individuals like the superuser scandal? They were an employee/affiliate and therefore represent the company or could be construed to be the company in law definitions. How do we know the company didn't know about the superuser accounts?
Why can't an individual bypass the RNG or actually rig it benefiting himself or a group? Any number of combinations of involvement are possible. What it comes down to is the company is responsible in the end.
Yes, but there is an enormous difference between a few superuser cheaters individually cheating for their own personal gain, vs. a poker site systemically rigging the deal to cheat all of their hundreds of thousands of players for the company's gain. The former is cheaters, the latter is a rigged deal, and one cannot be reasonably compared to the other. Every site has cheaters even without superusers, they collude by talking on the phone or IM, they chip dump, they use bots, they multi-account in the same game, etc etc. Sites catch them all the time, ask Josem. But a manipulated deal ("rigged") that is anything other than fair to all players has never been shown to have happened anywhere.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:40 AM   #4794
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by bluesbassman View Post
I'm glad this thread has proven online poker is not rigged. I used to think that routinely losing 20+ races in row, all-in preflop, in which I was no worse than 47% to win per race, was suspicious. It's good to know that's just normal variance.
Well if you had a basic understanding of probability maths and accurate recollections you could have worked it out for youself without ever visiting this thread.
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:31 AM   #4795
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by panzilla123 View Post
ok here is my most rememable bad beat...

Was playing 55-5...
down to final 2 table...
was rank around 7th place at the time...

i was on small blind and big blind was at rank 11th.
Everyone on the table fold and i flob JJ so decide to just eat the blind.
went all in.. the other person think a bit and call me...
I was like wtf.. he calls... and i was thinking he probably have pair or AA
but no.. he had AJ suit..
and i was like BOOM YA... time to double up

flob KKQ... i was like wtf and start to get worry.
turns a 2...
then i close my eyes when i open my eyes again...
I was like HELL YA i won... in final table for sure....

but then chip went to other person... i was like wtf he have that beat me
it wasnt A or 10 or flush....

i got be by KKQQ Akicker...
out of tourny and grab around 600...
Your most memorable beat was a 70/30? Man, are you in for a world of pain when the Maffia really turn on you.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:44 AM   #4796
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

My most memorable cooler: http://www.pokerhand.org/?1541307

It topped off a ~22 buy-in downswing too, which was the largest downswing I had ever had in terms of buy-ins and dollars at the time.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:40 AM   #4797
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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My most memorable cooler: http://www.pokerhand.org/?1541307

It topped off a ~22 buy-in downswing too, which was the largest downswing I had ever had in terms of buy-ins and dollars at the time.
Where do you get off thinking a $1000 loss of quads vs a straight flush competes with these guys 70/30 losses in $3 tournaments?

Sheesh, the nerve of some people.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:58 AM   #4798
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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
My most memorable cooler: http://www.pokerhand.org/?1541307

It topped off a ~22 buy-in downswing too, which was the largest downswing I had ever had in terms of buy-ins and dollars at the time.

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Old 06-16-2009, 06:48 PM   #4799
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Yes, but there is an enormous difference between a few superuser cheaters individually cheating for their own personal gain, vs. a poker site systemically rigging the deal to cheat all of their hundreds of thousands of players for the company's gain. The former is cheaters, the latter is a rigged deal, and one cannot be reasonably compared to the other. Every site has cheaters even without superusers, they collude by talking on the phone or IM, they chip dump, they use bots, they multi-account in the same game, etc etc. Sites catch them all the time, ask Josem. But a manipulated deal ("rigged") that is anything other than fair to all players has never been shown to have happened anywhere.
What about that little hesitation before the all in river bad beat? The longer the hesitation the more sure the bad beat. lol
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Old 06-16-2009, 06:55 PM   #4800
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Anyone like to take a bet that eventually , say within 2 years , an RNG will be proven rigged or bypassed?
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