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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-08-2009, 01:14 PM   #4476
Markusgc
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Is there any way to ban that K guy from this thread?
try the "ignore" function.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:18 PM   #4477
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
They don't. You are making it up.

You are an idiot.



They aren't. You are making it up.

You are a mendacious idiot.


On behalf of the lizard people; have a nice day!
Right, you've seen my hand histories.

Once I got AA 4 hands in a row on Titan Poker.

Odds of that = .00000002

So I'll believe anything when it comes to improbable hands in online poker.
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Old 06-08-2009, 01:20 PM   #4478
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by K13 View Post
improbable
There, you answered you own damn questions.

IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:15 PM   #4479
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

K13.. obviously the highest level of education you've received. Correct?
K-12 + 1
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:50 PM   #4480
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
all of you except the unluckiest have one penis, liver, lung, etc.
I think you made a mistake here. Not just an error in you penis count either. The whole post was a mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post

The reason of that is that the software application that uses Intel hardware RNG would not produce such result. Any sane software professional can clarify that for you. Alternatively please call to Intel, and they will clarify that technically not possible to get two similar consecutive such complex dataset from their hardware RNG.
So the RNG that you propose they use is less random than the one they actually use because there are certain events that fall into a random set that simply can't happen? Is that right?

Last edited by Bingo_Boy; 06-08-2009 at 02:52 PM. Reason: oops. I think I made a logical phallussy
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:53 PM   #4481
Prav
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Angry Campaign against PokerStars

PokerStars is so obviously rigged. It's not too difficult to prove.
Someone must punish them. I begin a campaign against PokerStars (PS).
My intention is to prove that the software is rigged, at least in SNG and MTT.

The plan:
1)Get enough hand histories (HH) from the players willing to take part.
2)Create software for analysis of the data.
3)Prove mathematically that the outcomes of all-ins are biased.
4)Find a lawyer to prepare and file a lawsuit against PS.
5)Get compensation from PokerStars, prevent them from cheating in future.

Some details of the plan:

1)HH
I estimate HH of about 10,000 SnGs and about 3,000 MTT tourneys will suffice to get mathematical evidence.

2)Software
Alon Albert has almost ready software for the task. I will ask his help. Can anyone else help?

3)Mathematical prove
The idea is to collect statistics on all-ins, draw closing, flop cards, etc. Compare actual outcomes to probabilities. Get deviations using normal approximation method. If the deviation exceeds the reasonable level, it will prove that the PS software is rigged.

What exactly seems to be rigged?

a) Big stack advantage
PS software gives advantage to big stacks. In SnGs, I estimate the big stack win allins about 1.5% more often, then it is supposed to based on equity. In MTT the advantage of big stacks is much bigger, it's just ridiculous.
Especially, there's a type of preflop allins I call «domination by pocket pair» (AA vs AK, KK vs TT, QQ vs JT, etc).
According to my statistics in SnG games, the average equity of such all-ins is 84%/16%. Then big stack dominates short one, it wins in about 84% cases which is normal. Then big stack is dominated, it wins about 25% allins although supposed to win only 16%! Everyone can check by himself.

b) Allin luck
I believe every player with ROI > 0 eventually ends up with the lack of luck, i.e. his actual win is less than expected. There may be 2 explanations. Either PS gives more luck to losing players to keep them playing (see below), or some players are the room's bots (which is outright robbery). Of course, if we provide 100 unlucky players, PS can always claim there are 200 lucky players outwhere, so this can't be an evidence. But we can take a certain player and estimate the probability of his «unluckiness». If the probability is little enough, say less than 0.1%, this is the ground for accustaion. The data needed for the math analysis: list of allins with equity and outcome, number of allins.

c) Cashout curse
After every cashout the player is likely to face a downstreak. Have to check allin luck during 500 tourneys after every cashout.

d) Weak hands
Weak hands win a little bit more often than they should. Thus PS encourages bad players.
Need to analyse allins 60%+ vs 40%-.

e) Draws
Flush and straight draws close too often, encouraging bad play.

Proving at least one point of above a)-e) will be enough to sue PS.

4)Lawyer
I'm sure there are lawyers among players who would like to handle it. I have one reference already.

5)Compenstaion
I have an idea how to estimate the loss. Plus moral compensation of course.
I suppose if the lawsuit is prepared properly, PS will offer compensation pre-trial.

The ones willing to join the project, please contact me by email:
ROONEY [a] BK [dot] RU
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:54 PM   #4482
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

why
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #4483
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

In
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #4484
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

nice level
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:57 PM   #4485
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

I don't want to campaign against them. I really think a strike would be far more effective for such matters. Have you tried any negotiating?
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:58 PM   #4486
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

I don't think anyone would be suprised to see any online site rigged but there is already a thread for this and even with a ton of HH it would be hard for the avg. joe to prove.
I would suggest you get coaching and look at ways to improve your game there allot of players making money online so its def possible
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:00 PM   #4487
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

if you feel PokerStars is rigged, read this:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...rstars-504421/
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:00 PM   #4488
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by K13 View Post
Right, you've seen my hand histories.

Once I got AA 4 hands in a row on Titan Poker.

Odds of that = .00000002

So I'll believe anything when it comes to improbable hands in online poker.
Actually it would be better if you posted the hand histories.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:00 PM   #4489
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

It's obviously rigged in my favor, so I like them.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:01 PM   #4490
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

Please begin a newsletter. I would like to subscribe.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:02 PM   #4491
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

Quote:
Originally Posted by brad2002tj View Post
It's obviously rigged in my favor, so I like them.
nh Brad
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:03 PM   #4492
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

Can someone just shuffle this into the abyss? Bob...? One time.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:05 PM   #4493
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prav View Post
if you feel PokerStars is rigged, read this:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...rstars-504421/
great, thanks for reporting that thread for merging purposes.

did you really think you were covering new ground?
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:11 PM   #4494
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by K13 View Post
Right, you've seen my hand histories.
They were made available to me by the Lizard people.

They are very good like that.

Quote:
Once I got AA 4 hands in a row on Titan Poker.
I've seen a house fly.

And I know the words to candle in the wind.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:45 PM   #4495
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
great, thanks for reporting that thread for merging purposes.

did you really think you were covering new ground?
someone already got the proof and sued PokerStars?
Pls refer.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:08 PM   #4496
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

It is amusing how little the solid regs constantly have in front of them while the new account aggro donks just constantly make hand after hand, running wild over the tables.
I'm starting to see less and less regs every night and I don't blame them.
If FTP is not letting you win, then why play?
Last night I was down about 3 buy-ins playing TAG solid poker.
I start tilting a little bit, play horribly, and 3 gutshots later I'm back to even.
I'm amazed that more people can't see the BS that is happening online.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:11 PM   #4497
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
I'm amazed that more people can't see the BS that is happening online.
seeing these patterns is an uncommon gift. We're lucky you were nice enough to share your feelings with us.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:13 PM   #4498
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
It is amusing how little the solid regs constantly have in front of them while the new account aggro donks just constantly make hand after hand, running wild over the tables.
Be an aggro donk. Profit. Simple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
I'm starting to see less and less regs every night and I don't blame them.
If FTP is not letting you win, then why play?
Write FTP support and ask for permission to win. Simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Last night I was down about 3 buy-ins playing TAG solid poker.
Riggedologists all claim to be solid poker players yet generally lose. Hmm, it must be mystical reasons, certainly not anything based on actual skill level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
I start tilting a little bit, play horribly, and 3 gutshots later I'm back to even.
Then become a permanent aggro donk. You uncovered the secret code. Exploit it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
I'm amazed that more people can't see the BS that is happening online.
For whatever reason they do not see the patterns and hidden truths you can see. Take advantage of it as described above. Remember the little people after you make millions with your pattern recognition super powers.

Good luck.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:40 PM   #4499
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Re: Campaign against PokerStars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prav View Post
PokerStars is so obviously rigged. It's not too difficult to prove. I look forward to seeing it
Someone must punish them. I begin a campaign against PokerStars (PS).
My intention is to prove that the software is rigged, at least in SNG and MTT.

The plan:
1)Get enough hand histories (HH) from the players willing to take part.
Don't forget to get a biased sample from plenty of people who agree with you
2)Create software for analysis of the data.
3)Prove mathematically that the outcomes of all-ins are biased.
4)Find a lawyer to prepare and file a lawsuit against PS.
Given the number of people in this thread who know its rigged i'm sure they will help you pay for this because its a sure fire win
5)Get compensation from PokerStars, prevent them from cheating in future.
I dont see how this is right, but if you say so
Some details of the plan:

1)HH
I estimate HH of about 10,000 SnGs and about 3,000 MTT tourneys will suffice to get mathematical evidence. How did you come up with this estimate?
2)Software
Alon Albert has almost ready software for the task. I will ask his help. Can anyone else help?

3)Mathematical prove
The idea is to collect statistics on all-ins, draw closing, flop cards, etc. Compare actual outcomes to probabilities. Get deviations using normal approximation method. If the deviation exceeds the reasonable level, it will prove that the PS software is rigged.

What exactly seems to be rigged?

a) Big stack advantage
PS software gives advantage to big stacks. Does it? why do you need all this software and mathematical evidnce if you already "know" In SnGs, I estimate the big stack win allins about 1.5% more often, then it is supposed to based on equity. In MTT the advantage of big stacks is much bigger, it's just ridiculous. Another very precise estimate. Where did that come from? Can you estimate / calculate this for thousands of hands over a long period from memory? Impressively accurate
Especially, there's a type of preflop allins I call «domination by pocket pair» (AA vs AK, KK vs TT, QQ vs JT, etc).
According to my statistics in SnG games, the average equity of such all-ins is 84%/16%. Then big stack dominates short one, it wins in about 84% cases which is normal. Then big stack is dominated, it wins about 25% allins although supposed to win only 16%! Everyone can check by himself. I estimate in my experience the opposite is true but you can provide your "statistics" to show me I'm wrong

b) Allin luck
I believe every player with ROI > 0 eventually ends up with the lack of luck, i.e. his actual win is less than expected. There may be 2 explanations. Either PS gives more luck to losing players to keep them playing (see below), or some players are the room's bots (which is outright robbery). Of course, if we provide 100 unlucky players, PS can always claim there are 200 lucky players outwhere, so this can't be an evidence. But we can take a certain player and estimate the probability of his «unluckiness». Another estimate using a biased sample? If the probability is little enough, say less than 0.1%, this is the ground for accustaion. It doesn't seem you need grounds for accusation The data needed for the math analysis: list of allins with equity and outcome, number of allins.

c) Cashout curse
After every cashout the player is likely to face a downstreak. Have to check allin luck during 500 tourneys after every cashout. Anybody who can't see why this is "a logical fallacy" can't be taken seriously

d) Weak hands
Weak hands win a little bit more often than they should. Thus PS encourages bad players.
Need to analyse allins 60%+ vs 40%-. Surely this is part of the overall equity calcs. Whats special about "weak hands"
e) Draws
Flush and straight draws close too often, encouraging bad play.

Proving at least one point of above a)-e) will be enough to sue PS. I dont think c) will
4)Lawyer
I'm sure there are lawyers among players who would like to handle it. I have one reference already. Is he working pro bono? Why not just sue them himself?
5)Compenstaion
I have an idea how to estimate the loss. Plus moral compensation of course.
I suppose if the lawsuit is prepared properly, PS will offer compensation pre-trial. You can estimate your loss with your hand histories can't you? Why don't you tell us what that is? You do like estimates.They might just settle out of fear when they see this post

The ones willing to join the project, please contact me by email:
ROONEY [a] BK [dot] RU would you like a biased sample of hand histories, money or some moral support
.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:44 PM   #4500
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Stars should sue him for libel. Probably wouldn't be too hard to find evidence, either.
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