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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 06-06-2009, 07:45 AM   #4301
solucky
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
Good post!

"Why do new players and unknowns get unreasonably lucky time and time again." Probably poker room bots.



"How did the fish survive this long in a game where they should lose relatively quickly." Some kind of cheat to keep them playing.

I had the opportunity to play at a local poker room live in my city few weeks after they opened. Before the live poker was against law here.

In the beggining there was lots of really big fishs, they didnt even know the hands hierarchy very well.

As the times passsd the fishes become rare. Nowaday you see some fishs playing but what happens is that they play for a while, lose a lot of money trought months and them they just disappear. Never come back.

If online poker room would let the EV in its normal range they would go broke very fast because the flow of money would go from the worse players to the best players very fast. Many more times faster than in an live situation, because online everything is faster, even if you play just one table.

So, I believe its just impossible to poker room to survive without some kind of slowing down the flow of money. How they do that I dont know.

It not affect the winning player, the good player will win regularly, but never at the same rate as if he was playing live.
Poker is so simple deposited money - rake = winnings

I agree that onlinepoker increase the portion of rake with the fixed games, but they also increase the deposit money so the ammount that you can win is stable.

Sure in 4-5 years poker will be dry out extreme...simple not any gambler love the game..they simple heard you can make easy money and recognize its not as easy.

For myself the games are not worth the time 12-18 month ago
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:08 AM   #4302
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
not as bad as the hawks this year
No - At least the Hawks are trying to achieve something.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:02 AM   #4303
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
It's funny how making a final table will untilt you after a full week of getting screwed. Honestly nobody here knows for sure if these sites are legit, but it's not in our best interest to trash them and scare away the fish. If these sites are cheating they probably have some ingenious program in place that we will never figure out, and are unlikely to change their ways. Nothing good can come out of it other than blowing off steam. I think I'll buy a punching bag instead.
So ingenius that it can't be detected by statistical analysis but, despite the variance and the failings of the human brain, you people can figure it out by playing a few hands and running bad?
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:05 AM   #4304
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Aren't "so ingenius that it can't be detected" and "producing bad beats at a higher than usual rate" mutually exclusive?
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:37 AM   #4305
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by T. A. Schwitters View Post
Aren't "so ingenius that it can't be detected" and "producing bad beats at a higher than usual rate" mutually exclusive?
There's a great exchange from a year or two or three ago on these forums between Sciolist and some random muppet where he follows this chain of thinking through.

In short, one of the more nonsensical claims of rigtards is that their able to "feel" something is wrong, but that there's no statistical record of this. These logical geniuses are happy to claim - without irony - that they're able to do more comprehensive stastical analysis of thousands of hands in their head than computers and maths and databases are able to do.

It's just yet another fundamental logical flaw in these nutty conspiracy theories.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:39 AM   #4306
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
There's a great exchange from a year or two or three ago on these forums between Sciolist and some random muppet where he follows this chain of thinking through.

In short, one of the more nonsensical claims of rigtards is that their able to "feel" something is wrong, but that there's no statistical record of this. These logical geniuses are happy to claim - without irony - that they're able to do more comprehensive stastical analysis of thousands of hands in their head than computers and maths and databases are able to do.

It's just yet another fundamental logical flaw in these nutty conspiracy theories.
Those whom the Lizard people wish to destroy they first drive insane with rigged theories.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:51 AM   #4307
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by syncmaster View Post
Honestly how long have you guys been playing?

Stop multitabling
No software (huds, ect)
Get rid of HU & short handed tables
Get rid of NL/PL games


In fact, I'm pretty sure every one of these listed has happend over the past 25 years and has been proven to hurt the games. I know for a fact about the first 3 because I have seen it happen over the past few years, and it did hurt the games..

Honestly do you know what I would give to go back to 04 and play on pacific poker when you could only play 1 table. That place was like some alternate deminsion where people were scared of chips.

1. Stop Multitabling: That would affect the hands/hours rate only, not the flow of money from bad players to good players. In fact that would be stupid for the poker room, because they would win less rake than allowing MTT.

2 . No software (HU): That could help to slow the flow of of money making the advantage of the good player over the donk smaller.

3. Get rid of HU & short handed tables: Same as 1.

4. Get rid of NL/PL games: I´m not sure, but I think if site offered only fixed limit it wouldnt survive because of the popularity of NL cash games.

5. Go back to everyone playing FL stud: Same as 4. I wouldnt play poker anymore.

So you gave just 1 realistic way of slowing down the flow of money from bad players to good players without rigging. Still a very questionabkle one. Number 2.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:55 AM   #4308
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Those whom the Lizard people wish to destroy they first drive insane with rigged theories.
What the hell believing in lizard people has to do with thinking that maybe an online poker room could be rigged?

I have to think that you believe that thinking a poker room is cheating at some level is an absurd as to believe in lizard people. Why do you think like that? Do you have any cognitive deficits? Sorry, I had to ask because your post seemed very bizarre.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:56 AM   #4309
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
What the hell believing in lizard people has to do with thinking that maybe an online poker room could be rigged?

I have to think that you believe that thinking a poker room is cheating at some level is an absurd as to believe in lizard people. Why do you think like that? Do you have any cognitive deficits? Sorry, I had to ask because your post seemed very bizarre.
If you are concerned about an online poker site fiddling the community cards, then you should play at a site where such fiddling is demonstrably impossible and stop worrying about the situation.
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:11 PM   #4310
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Josem View Post
No - At least the Hawks are trying to achieve something.

everyone here is trying to achieve something

there are people trying to work out when they shove with qqq and the chipleader calls with a8 off and gets runner runner straight and before you can go what happened? the table closes they want answers

there are people trying to convince people that its not rigged for what ever reason , maybe they dont want to lose a fish on a site that holds 80k players

there are trollers having fun

there are trollers trolling the trollers
there are some people that like to read stuff so they dont go on tilt




josem , gonna ask u a straight question , u follow the hawks , have u ever left the game and blamed the umps for a loss ?

well your angry , surely the umps werent paid off , surely they dont hate buddy , its all fair 100% but ya still angry arent ya and have a vent ?
im sure umpire james never had 100 bux on roughhead to kick more than buddy , but it feels that way dont it
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:40 PM   #4311
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
everyone here is trying to achieve something

there are people trying to work out when they shove with qqq and the chipleader calls with a8 off and gets runner runner straight and before you can go what happened? the table closes they want answers

there are people trying to convince people that its not rigged for what ever reason , maybe they dont want to lose a fish on a site that holds 80k players

there are trollers having fun

there are trollers trolling the trollers
there are some people that like to read stuff so they dont go on tilt
And then there are the lizard people who actually control the thead through direct mind control of posters who do not wear their tin-foil hats.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:12 PM   #4312
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
how else would they do it ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
Really?? Tell me 5 and I will be rigmazed!
I was exaggerating but pretty much what syncmaster said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by syncmaster View Post
Honestly how long have you guys been playing?

Stop multitabling
No software (huds, ect)
Get rid of HU & short handed tables
Get rid of NL/PL games
Go back to everyone playing FL stud

In fact, I'm pretty sure every one of these listed has happend over the past 25 years and has been proven to hurt the games. I know for a fact about the first 3 because I have seen it happen over the past few years, and it did hurt the games..

Honestly do you know what I would give to go back to 04 and play on pacific poker when you could only play 1 table. That place was like some alternate deminsion where people were scared of chips.
Tell me about it, i would rather multitable on 4 sites that limit max tables, then one site that allows mega multitabling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
1. Stop Multitabling: That would affect the hands/hours rate only, not the flow of money from bad players to good players.
This is the key one. Multitabilng allows good players to take money from bad players faster by cloning themselves and attacking the fish from multiple tables. Add in it gives some good players a free intrinsic skill that they might not have or be able to win without, patience. Add in it also enables bad players to loose their money faster. If you don't think the fish last longer at sites that limit tables idk.

Quote:
In fact that would be stupid for the poker room, because they would win less rake than allowing MTT.
See everyone says it will cost them money but i don't see how. There is a fixed amount of money to made all coming from loosing players. Anything that helps winning players take a bigger cut of that money would seem to hurt the sites. But im sure im just dumb.

Quote:
2 . No software (HU): That could help to slow the flow of of money making the advantage of the good player over the donk smaller.

3. Get rid of HU & short handed tables: Same as 1.

4. Get rid of NL/PL games: I´m not sure, but I think if site offered only fixed limit it wouldnt survive because of the popularity of NL cash games.

5. Go back to everyone playing FL stud: Same as 4. I wouldnt play poker anymore.

So you gave just 1 realistic way of slowing down the flow of money from bad players to good players without rigging. Still a very questionabkle one. Number 2.
You can add anything that helps good players take money from bad players faster, huds, trackers, table selectors, tracking sites, hand histories...

The point is, if sites wanted to protect losing players there are better, less risky, ways then fixing the RNG.

Last edited by batair; 06-06-2009 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:22 PM   #4313
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
OK, I'm convinced.

The sites are rigging it against AA, KK and QQ.

So simply stop playing those hands as you are obviously not going to win with them and modify your play of hands that the sites rig to beat AA, etc.

Go away and try it and after you've given it a go for, oh, say, 20,000 hands, come back and tell us how your stats have improved.

Imagaine what a hero you'll be when we can all change our playing patterns to match yours and improve our own returns.

You will achieve your proper status as a poker god!
I've played over 500k hands on PS alone. 300k on Titan.

Some things add up but others are way off. Atleast royal flushes seem correct.

Why is it so hard to believe there's a little tweak here and there?

Its enough to keep fish a little longer.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:35 PM   #4314
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by K13 View Post
I've played over 500k hands on PS alone. 300k on Titan.

Some things add up but others are way off. Atleast royal flushes seem correct.

Why is it so hard to believe there's a little tweak here and there?

Its enough to keep fish a little longer.
But have you tried folding AA, KK and QQ as you seem to believe that these hands are rigged against by the sites?

If I believed that a certain starting hand was rigged against I'd simply stop plaing it and increase my ROI.

Have you actually tried that?
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:26 PM   #4315
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
But have you tried folding AA, KK and QQ as you seem to believe that these hands are rigged against by the sites?

If I believed that a certain starting hand was rigged against I'd simply stop plaing it and increase my ROI.

Have you actually tried that?
Agreed, seems like a simple tweak to make given that his undocumented AA/KK/QQ hands lose nearly every time via what would be one of the dumbest and easiest rigging methods to detect. His results should change considerably once this adjustment is made. I wonder if he could give a reason why he has not made this change yet.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:31 PM   #4316
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
And then there are the lizard people who actually control the thead through direct mind control of posters who do not wear their tin-foil hats.
You are nothing more than an annoying troll.
Ban Plz.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:40 PM   #4317
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem View Post
If you are concerned about an online poker site fiddling the community cards, then you should play at a site where such fiddling is demonstrably impossible and stop worrying about the situation.
Stop trying to plug the site you work for.
I have not played at Pokerstars since these 2 simultaneous hands occurred.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:32 PM   #4318
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Stop trying to plug the site you work for.
I have not played at Pokerstars since these 2 simultaneous hands occurred.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)
You do realize there are only 715 ways to hold 4 ranks, right?

Yeah, two cards being repeated in two deals of 8 is pretty scary for sure. I'd quit too.
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:51 PM   #4319
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Stop trying to plug the site you work for.
I have not played at Pokerstars since these 2 simultaneous hands occurred.
We know, you brought it up 2,000 posts ago.

How clever of Stars to know that you'd call an AIPF with the monster that is A267.
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:33 PM   #4320
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

You know I started playing live, and playing no limit small-buy in nl home games before that and that is my background. The basis for my suspicion is that, in theory, NL hold'em games should NOT even be running on the internet where people get so many hands in, because the advantage is too large for better players. In a live setting when a donk lucks into a chip stack he is relieved of it within a few hours almost guaranteed unless they leave. On the internet these donks survive and yes lose but they are not losing fast enough it seems to me and my "bad luck" against the poorer players is astounding.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:03 PM   #4321
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Stop trying to plug the site you work for.
I have not played at Pokerstars since these 2 simultaneous hands occurred.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)

Think your sharkscope and OPR stats would be more of a reason for you to quit. You just are not that good.

Even your riggedology theories are lame, and that is not easy to do since that includes theories like "Russian mafia."

You quit a game because you got dealt 2 hands in a row that only have the same rank but are not even the same hands (not the same suits, not even the same order of ranks). I am surprised you did not quit after losing 2 hands when sneezing or something.

Oh, what are the hand numbers of the hands? Curious to see the stakes and how you played them. Be the first riggedologist to actually provide actual data, albeit 2 whole hands. It's a start. Edit: Oh yeah, an old post about the hands. You stunk up both hands. Good thing you quit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by burden2 View Post
You know I started playing live, and playing no limit small-buy in nl home games before that and that is my background. The basis for my suspicion is that, in theory, NL hold'em games should NOT even be running on the internet where people get so many hands in, because the advantage is too large for better players. In a live setting when a donk lucks into a chip stack he is relieved of it within a few hours almost guaranteed unless they leave. On the internet these donks survive and yes lose but they are not losing fast enough it seems to me and my "bad luck" against the poorer players is astounding.
You may not be as good as you think. That old saying if you look around and cannot find the fish yadda yadda.

Anyway, you still have not made up your mind on converting to riggedology or not. Maybe these 2 stud hands will help, I mean what other explanation can there be for this... (sorry for the messy hand histories :P)


*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Ah As Tc]
Dealt to MaXko8 [3d]
Dealt to Thediabloman [5c]
Dealt to JerseyRU [2c]
Dealt to twindragon1 [6s]
Dealt to dymonddave [9s]
Dealt to Fattum [8d]
Dealt to TheGoldKing [8c]
JerseyRU: brings in for 30
twindragon1: folds
dymonddave: calls 30
Fattum: folds
TheGoldKing: calls 30
Monteroy: raises 70 to 100
MaXko8: calls 100
Thediabloman: folds
JerseyRU: folds
dymonddave: calls 70
TheGoldKing: calls 70
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Ah As Tc] [Jd]
Dealt to MaXko8 [3d] [4d]
Dealt to dymonddave [9s] [Kh]
Dealt to TheGoldKing [8c] [5s]
dymonddave: bets 100
TheGoldKing: folds
Monteroy: raises 100 to 200
MaXko8: folds
dymonddave: calls 100
*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Ah As Tc Jd] [4c]
Dealt to dymonddave [9s Kh] [5h]
dymonddave: bets 200
Monteroy: calls 200
*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Ah As Tc Jd 4c] [Ac]
Dealt to dymonddave [9s Kh 5h] [4h]
Monteroy: bets 200
dymonddave: raises 200 to 400
Monteroy: calls 200
*** RIVER ***
Dealt to Monteroy [Ah As Tc Jd 4c Ac] [Ad]
Monteroy: bets 200
dymonddave: raises 200 to 400
Monteroy: raises 200 to 600
dymonddave: raises 200 to 800
Betting is capped
Monteroy: calls 200
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dymonddave: shows [6h 7h 9s Kh 5h 4h 3h] (a straight flush, Three to Seven)
Monteroy: mucks hand
dymonddave collected 3750 from pot



2 hands later!!

Dealt to Monteroy [4s 5s Ts]
Dealt to MaXko8 [8c]
Dealt to Thediabloman [6c]
Dealt to JerseyRU [Ad]
Dealt to twindragon1 [Th]
Dealt to dymonddave [8d]
Dealt to Fattum [Qc]
Dealt to TheGoldKing [Tc]
Thediabloman: brings in for 30
JerseyRU: raises 70 to 100
twindragon1: folds
dymonddave: calls 100
Fattum: folds
TheGoldKing: raises 100 to 200
Monteroy: calls 200
MaXko8: folds
Thediabloman: folds
JerseyRU: raises 100 to 300
dymonddave: calls 200
TheGoldKing: calls 100
Monteroy: calls 100
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to Monteroy [4s 5s Ts] [Kh]
Dealt to JerseyRU [Ad] [3c]
Dealt to dymonddave [8d] [3h]
Dealt to TheGoldKing [Tc] [3s]
JerseyRU: bets 100
dymonddave: calls 100
TheGoldKing: calls 100
Monteroy: calls 100
*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to Monteroy [4s 5s Ts Kh] [Ks]
Dealt to JerseyRU [Ad 3c] [6s]
Dealt to dymonddave [8d 3h] [Jc]
Dealt to TheGoldKing [Tc 3s] [9c]
Monteroy: bets 200
JerseyRU: folds
dymonddave: calls 200
TheGoldKing: calls 200
*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to Monteroy [4s 5s Ts Kh Ks] [As]
Dealt to dymonddave [8d 3h Jc] [5c]
Dealt to TheGoldKing [Tc 3s 9c] [Kc]
Monteroy: bets 200
dymonddave: calls 200
TheGoldKing: raises 200 to 400
Monteroy: raises 200 to 600
dymonddave: calls 400
TheGoldKing: calls 200
*** RIVER ***
Dealt to Monteroy [4s 5s Ts Kh Ks As] [9s]
Monteroy: bets 200
dymonddave: calls 200
TheGoldKing: calls 200
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Monteroy: shows [4s 5s Ts Kh Ks As 9s] (a flush, Ace high)
dymonddave: mucks hand
TheGoldKing: shows [Ac 7c Tc 3s 9c Kc Td] (a flush, Ace high - Seven higher)
TheGoldKing collected 4750 from pot
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:23 PM   #4322
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Stop trying to plug the site you work for.
I have not played at Pokerstars since these 2 simultaneous hands occurred.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)
Your sample is clear evidence of the manipulated and not random software. Sort of same hands happened to me and I've posted that hands as well in this thread, it just simply indicates that their software is cannot be further from randomness, it is manipulated. It’s obviously evident to any sane individual over age 8 with IQ over 80 – only the site defender blind-crusaders afraid to admit the reality. The crusaders are hypnotized by the multibillion hand sample, which by the way would not be affected from the manipulated hands like yours or mine. The two hands you have posted, the hands I have posted are perfectly fits into the multibillion hands sample - in fact any hands perfectly fits into that sample, therefore the crusaders’ main argument that the multibillion hands sample is the evidence that the sites are not rigged is useless. Using the multibillion hands sample to prove that PS is not rigged is simply a logical fallacy. As the nature of poker, these manipulated hands are perfectly valid elements of the multibillion hands sample, the crusaders multibillion hands sample proves nothing.

Anyway, the manipulated and not random software is a pretty powerful tool in the hand of PS criminals. That’s why it would be so important what I have been pointing out in my previous posts: put in place verified, fully audited, source code controlled software systems in order to make sure that the game is not compromised by manipulated software components at any levels.

The criminals who operate the multibillion dollar scam in the form of Poker Star must follow Madoff, the fraudster. Same origin, same crime, should be same the punishment as well.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:35 PM   #4323
NFuego20
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Stop trying to plug the site you work for.
I have not played at Pokerstars since these 2 simultaneous hands occurred.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [6c 2c Ad 7s]
*** FLOP *** [Tc Kd As]
*** TURN *** [Tc Kd As] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Kd As Qd] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
uwilgetbroke: shows [Ac Js Ah 4d] (HI: a straight, Ten to Ace)


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Phunbaba23 [2h As 6s 7d]
*** FLOP *** [9c Jd 9s]
*** TURN *** [9c Jd 9s] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [9c Jd 9s 8d] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icecrmking: shows [Ac 4c Ah Jh] (HI: a full house, Aces full of Nines)
I can't believe you don't realize how dumb you look using this as your "evidence".
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:37 PM   #4324
NFuego20
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Your sample is clear evidence of the manipulated and not random software. Sort of same hands happened to me and I've posted that hands as well in this thread, it just simply indicates that their software is cannot be further from randomness, it is manipulated. It’s obviously evident to any sane individual over age 8 with IQ over 80 – only the site defender blind-crusaders afraid to admit the reality. The crusaders are hypnotized by the multibillion hand sample, which by the way would not be affected from the manipulated hands like yours or mine. The two hands you have posted, the hands I have posted are perfectly fits into the multibillion hands sample - in fact any hands perfectly fits into that sample, therefore the crusaders’ main argument that the multibillion hands sample is the evidence that the sites are not rigged is useless. Using the multibillion hands sample to prove that PS is not rigged is simply a logical fallacy. As the nature of poker, these manipulated hands are perfectly valid elements of the multibillion hands sample, the crusaders multibillion hands sample proves nothing.

Anyway, the manipulated and not random software is a pretty powerful tool in the hand of PS criminals. That’s why it would be so important what I have been pointing out in my previous posts: put in place verified, fully audited, source code controlled software systems in order to make sure that the game is not compromised by manipulated software components at any levels.

The criminals who operate the multibillion dollar scam in the form of Poker Star must follow Madoff, the fraudster. Same origin, same crime, should be same the punishment as well.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:41 PM   #4325
PokErasmus
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
I can't believe you don't realize how dumb you look using this as your "evidence".
I can't believe you don't realize how dumb you look using the multibillion hands sample as your "evidence".

If a write a software that not randomly produces the submitted two hands, the two hands will still perfectly fit into your sample, therefore the multibillion hands sample proves nothing, except how dumb you look.
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