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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,448 34.94%
No 5,524 55.98%
Undecided 895 9.07%
Voters: 9867. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-05-2009, 11:58 AM   #4226
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I have them but PT does not work on my computer so I wanted them sent to my e-mail or something so I can upload them to a different computer.
Curious as to how PT won't work on your computer. But in any event, just copy you database to a USB drive and bring it to your new computer. They only cost a few bucks.

It's posts like these that make me think you might be levelling with all your posts. That, or you really don't want to show your graph.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:08 PM   #4227
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I started with $50 on PS like most people and now have a couple thousand in profit. Why would I still think its rigged?

I should be happy no?
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:38 PM   #4228
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by K13 View Post
Its not even me, its 90% + of people who think this. Ask a poll from everyone and everywhere.

All you'll say, is the usual blah blah, they must be losing players , not enough hands, variance, etc.

Its BS.

People who barely play poker and watch me for a little while. That looks so fixed/rigged/whatever. "Maybe you should stop playing with AA, KK, QQ because all they do is lose"

Now, myself, I want to believe its "real" and i'm playing real poker and making good decisions. I actually thought that in the beginning but the more you play the less "random" it is. Things don't add up long term like they should.

You know how fast these fish would be cleaned out if it was 100% legit.
Why do you still play at stars if its so rigged? Move to tilt. duh.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:39 PM   #4229
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Another KK lost to Ax.
Holy ****, something that's supposed to happen 30% of the time happened, obviously rigged.
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Originally Posted by K13 View Post
People who barely play poker and watch me for a little while. That looks so fixed/rigged/whatever. "Maybe you should stop playing with AA, KK, QQ because all they do is lose"

Now, myself, I want to believe its "real" and i'm playing real poker and making good decisions. I actually thought that in the beginning but the more you play the less "random" it is. Things don't add up long term like they should.
If you request all your thousands of HH's from PS and post a screenshot from PT3 or HEM showing AA, KK, and QQ winning less than 70% of the time, I'll ship you $100 on Stars.

That doesn't mean you can show me that you've lost money with them, or that you can show me a screenshot with 70 hands where your kings got beat by A3o, I'm talking a 20,000 hand+ database where you got each hand about 100 times, and managed to lose 30 of those 100 times.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:49 PM   #4230
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I think K13 has said he plays mainly SNGs. I wonder what the makeup is of rigtards: cash vs. tournaments. I'm betting more rigtards play tournaments, SNG's etc. where the immediate consequence of a bad beat can mean elimination. Where in cash you just move on to the next hand knowing that if the other player stays around long enough you should have a chance to return the favour.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:50 PM   #4231
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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That doesn't mean you can show me that you've lost money with them, or that you can show me a screenshot with 70 hands where your kings got beat by A3o, I'm talking a 20,000 hand+ database where you got each hand about 100 times, and managed to lose 30 of those 100 times.
typical shill, always making up some crazy, impossible to prove parameters for your macho-man bet.
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:58 PM   #4232
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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typical shill, always making up some crazy, impossible to prove parameters for your macho-man bet.
Snap into a Slim Jim. Ohhhhhhhh yeeeeaaaaaaaaah.
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:20 PM   #4233
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I started with $50 on PS like most people and now have a couple thousand in profit. Why would I still think its rigged?

I should be happy no?
I am not even sure you think it is rigged. You will never be happy, you enjoy the art of whining whenever you lose way too much to ever be satisfied when you do actually win.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr_complex

You manage to have a mental condition that manifests in some really annoying behavior in this forum, making you a very effective yet unintentional troll. Others would love to be as annoying as you, and try to be, yet fail. Ironic.
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:22 PM   #4234
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I started with $50 on PS like most people and now have a couple thousand in profit. Why would I still think its rigged?

I should be happy no?

Same here. And I have played live poker a lot before taking online more seriously. And I can tell that in live play AA loses a lot of PF all ins, but never so frequent as in online poker. AA losing to PP happens, but, if you play it 10 times it loses around 2 times. That gives you the sensation of safety, when that happens you feel that is infrequent, in online poker when I go all in with AA I have fear! It happens 3 in 4 times in a sequence, very often.

That explanation of :"you play more hands online" does not work. If somthing is to happen 20% of time you will have the intuitively sense of rarity. Thats what you dont have in online play. And its not just about me, you see it happens all the time when others players are in the hand and you are out.


About the data analisys:


The only trustfull data analisys that could be made is with a huge sample of the poker room hands, WITH ALL HOLES CARDS INCLUDED AT ALL STAGES OF THE GAME. I doubt they would give these information to anyone, because of privacy problems. So we can only make partial and uncomplete data analisys that are far away from being conclusive.
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:31 PM   #4235
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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The only trustfull data analisys that could be made is with a huge sample of the poker room hands, WITH ALL HOLES CARDS INCLUDED AT ALL STAGES OF THE GAME. I doubt they would give these information to anyone, because of privacy problems. So we can only make partial and uncomplete data analisys that are far away from being conclusive.
expert analisys imo
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:00 PM   #4236
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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you will have the intuitively sense of rarity.
There should be a rigtard phrase or word(s) of the day. This one should win for today imo. It's rigtastic!
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:07 PM   #4237
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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There should be a rigtard phrase or word(s) of the day. This one should win for today imo. It's rigtastic!
I nominate that word.

that or "analisys"
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:12 PM   #4238
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I nominate that word.

that or "analisys"
I like "analisys". I think the word should have to come from a rigtard. We don't want them thinking the word of the day is rigged.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:25 PM   #4239
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I like "analisys". I think the word should have to come from a rigtard. We don't want them thinking the word of the day is rigged.
plus it sounds like of like this:



and yeah, if we said the word of the day was "rigtastic" then some dummy would use it as proof that the majority of the non-lizard humans believe the RNG is rigged for action flops and rivers to keep the fish playing longer, the short-stacks to win more often while eliminating them faster so they play another tournament sooner. or something like that.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:39 PM   #4240
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
Same here. And I have played live poker a lot before taking online more seriously. And I can tell that in live play AA loses a lot of PF all ins, but never so frequent as in online poker. AA losing to PP happens, but, if you play it 10 times it loses around 2 times. That gives you the sensation of safety, when that happens you feel that is infrequent, in online poker when I go all in with AA I have fear! It happens 3 in 4 times in a sequence, very often.
No way, you're telling me short term variance happens? This is a stunning revelation.
Quote:

That explanation of :"you play more hands online" does not work. If somthing is to happen 20% of time you will have the intuitively sense of rarity. Thats what you dont have in online play. And its not just about me, you see it happens all the time when others players are in the hand and you are out.
20% isn't that rare. Let's say you see 2,000 hands a day, and you only actually play 20% of them. So that's 400 hands. For simplicity's sake, we'll say that any hand you play actually plays out to showdown, and you're an 80% favorite preflop every time. You're still supposed to lose about 80 hands. That's almost 3 hours worth of live hands, and you lost them all, good God! Ignore the fact that you won 320 hands, because obviously you should win all your 80/20s.

Basically it's just confirmation bias. I don't remember what the hell my opponent had the last 10 times I won with AA, but I distinctly remember every single action in the hand where my KK was beaten by 52s.
Quote:
About the data analisys:


The only trustfull data analisys that could be made is with a huge sample of the poker room hands, WITH ALL HOLES CARDS INCLUDED AT ALL STAGES OF THE GAME. I doubt they would give these information to anyone, because of privacy problems. So we can only make partial and uncomplete data analisys that are far away from being conclusive.
Cigital was given every cash hand played on Stars above 25NL for December 2008, with all hole cards. They just checked whether the winning hand was determined by luck or skill, but I'm sure if a reputable company (i.e. not just some dude from 2+2 who might use the hands as a form of datamining) came to them offering to do an audit of their RNG, Stars would be more than happy to oblige.

But of course that company would just be a shell company to cover up the rigging, so it could never be trusted, and the cycle would go on.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:56 PM   #4241
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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i have never accused anyone of anything , find it in a thread ive posted and put it here , you are batting for 0 boy

here ill start you off , want me to accuse someone of something ? ok you sir are an idiot



rigtard ? as in ****** ? a defamatory remark , i expect no less from someone called boy

if you actually had the intelligence to read through the posts and understand words and meanings as in not know what chocolate used for sex was and tried to get 2 year old cheap shot troll and now try to defend yourself with me posting what trash ? we where throwing out possibilities , what ifs and buts ? you know contemplation ? can you understand that BOY ?

i have a voice of reason in my head its telling me that having you understand any sort of debate or argument or throwing out ideas would be the same as training a golden retriever to fly to boston and back while playing a banjo


cant wait for your next intelligent reply BOY , try some plagiarism , it might help you to sounding above a 2 year old


those who have no idea yell loudest
Oh dear it looks like you have had TOO MANY BEERS. Hahahahaha! Do you see what i did there? I used your name to insult you and used CAPITALS to make it even more funny. It's like i'm telling you your own bad joke. Thanks for the idea. I hope it "might help me to sound above a 2 year old".

On a less moronic note, the paragraphs quoted below clearly imply that you believe any / all poker sites may be cheating their customers and that any / all governments are turning a blind eye as much as they possibly can.

The reason you "have never accused anyone of anything" directly is because you don't have any evidence. Instead you are discrediting the integrity of thousands of Government and Online Casino Employees whilst hiding behind a veil of "I don't know but..." type nonsense.

If you enjoy or profit from online poker please stop treating it with such utter disdain because you are only further tarnishing the reputation of an industry which already has to battle against criticism which is often unfair. If someone like you who plays poker and claims not to believe its rigged can freely make sweeping acusations, is it any wonder many "outsiders" feel the way they do about the industry.

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Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
post trash like what ? like the government of some island who allows sites to run under its jurisdiction who makes a bucket load of money from taxes and licensing fees is going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg ?

oh nos mario , we justa found out that xxxx pokers was cheating some schleps from another country , if we shuta dem down , we losa 300k clams a year from dah liscena fees , lets justa fine them 1.5 millions clams and put dem on double secret probation
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:57 PM   #4242
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
The only trustfull data analisys that could be made is with a huge sample of the poker room hands, WITH ALL HOLES CARDS INCLUDED AT ALL STAGES OF THE GAME. I doubt they would give these information to anyone, because of privacy problems. So we can only make partial and uncomplete data analisys that are far away from being conclusive.
You're quite wrong here. We don't need to know any hole cards at all to analyse the board and determine if the community cards follow their expected distributions. Having all hole cards would allow a determination of whether all 1326 possible hands are dealt evenly, but that isn't of much use by itself anyway, as the site could switch hands between targeted players and not change the hole card distributions. Knowing all the seen community cards and all the hole cards that made it to showdown, is sufficient to do a very comprehensive (and conclusive) analysis of whether the deal is fair.

Every individual player can check whether their own hole cards are dealt according to expectation, and many many players have done this and found they get the right number of AA, of KK, etc etc. It isn't of much interest to repeat that in a large pooled sample. It's the board cards and showdowns that matter.

Last edited by spadebidder; 06-05-2009 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:02 PM   #4243
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Oh dear it looks like you have had TOO MANY BEERS. Hahahahaha! Do you see what i did there? I used your name to insult you and used CAPITALS to make it even more funny.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:02 PM   #4244
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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People who barely play poker and watch me for a little while. That looks so fixed/rigged/whatever. "Maybe you should stop playing with AA, KK, QQ because all they do is lose"
OK, I'm convinced.

The sites are rigging it against AA, KK and QQ.

So simply stop playing those hands as you are obviously not going to win with them and modify your play of hands that the sites rig to beat AA, etc.

Go away and try it and after you've given it a go for, oh, say, 20,000 hands, come back and tell us how your stats have improved.

Imagaine what a hero you'll be when we can all change our playing patterns to match yours and improve our own returns.

You will achieve your proper status as a poker god!
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:06 PM   #4245
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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"Maybe you should stop playing with AA, KK, QQ because all they do is lose"
never heard that at a live card room. that's all the proof I need!
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:33 PM   #4246
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
I think K13 has said he plays mainly SNGs. I wonder what the makeup is of rigtards: cash vs. tournaments. I'm betting more rigtards play tournaments, SNG's etc. where the immediate consequence of a bad beat can mean elimination. Where in cash you just move on to the next hand knowing that if the other player stays around long enough you should have a chance to return the favour.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:37 PM   #4247
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Where in cash you just move on to the next hand knowing that if the other player stays around long enough you should have a chance to return the favour.
not if you have your entire bankroll on the table you can't.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:41 PM   #4248
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Great laughs up here.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:42 PM   #4249
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
There should be a rigtard phrase or word(s) of the day. This one should win for today imo. It's rigtastic!

Great laughs up hre. Keep the fun comments going on, you should be humourist.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:48 PM   #4250
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Great laughs up hre. Keep the fun comments going on, you should be humourist.
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