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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,449 34.95%
No 5,524 55.98%
Undecided 895 9.07%
Voters: 9868. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-03-2009, 10:47 AM   #4151
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
UB and AP's business suffered considerably. No idea why you brought up potripper, his crime made sense (easy and quick and good money without mystical fantasy AI needed).
yes ub and ap suffered heaps , last time i heard their bad beat jackpot was 350k , their owners must be in the soup line

i bought up potripper to point out there is no justice for criminals in the online gaming industry


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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
My point is that if crime is happening, it is happening in a way that is easier and makes a lot more sense then the utterly complex and inefficient methods of crime you suggest. Write a script with a cheesy plan for a James Bond villain or something.
potrippers plan was simple , he was like a bankrobber that blunders into a bank waving a shotgun

if he was a smart bankrobber he could have still been sitting there making very very very good money





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Your xenophobia is cute,
i am not scared of spiders !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
I realize you think hundreds of rooms all use complex, innate rigging schemes, none of which ever get caught somehow, but concentrating on fantasy just distracts your from actual real issues.

Still, it is amusing to see you debate your point
you realize what ? i said i dont embrace or disagree the rigging theory , but i dont discount it entirely , with todays software and computers one line of script can change a hell of a lot
i play chess against a computer , it makes instant choices , 64 squares , thousands of thousands of moves ahead , you telling me someone couldnt write a script for poker to kick someone out of a torni to get them raking on a cash table? lol





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Scientology managed to figure out a way to pre-package basic self help formulas that you can see for free in a basic text book (ie: Maslow's hierarchy) and make tons and tons of money selling to a captive audience.

You make fun of an insanely efficient business model that makes a ton of money yet embrace a belief that is based on making stuff up with no actual gain or real purpose? Creative choice...


oh now i know where you find your passion and defence of online sites , they are a " insanely efficient business model "



# Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion. #

yes i do find scientoligy amusing , the guys are making money hand over fist and the believers have have no idea they are being suckered , i guess people are happy handing over their hard earned cash as long as it makes them feel good
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:58 AM   #4152
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
yes ub and ap suffered heaps , last time i heard their bad beat jackpot was 350k , their owners must be in the soup line

i bought up potripper to point out there is no justice for criminals in the online gaming industry
Then the crimes they commit should be a lot simpler then these ultra complex rigged software conspiracy theories.

Nice and simple.



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Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
potrippers plan was simple , he was like a bankrobber that blunders into a bank waving a shotgun

if he was a smart bankrobber he could have still been sitting there making very very very good money
He made a ton in a very short period of time. Those that say he would be better off grinding mid stakes for years do not quite understand the best way to commit a crime.

Nice and simple.



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Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
you realize what ? i said i dont embrace or disagree the rigging theory , but i dont discount it entirely , with todays software and computers one line of script can change a hell of a lot
i play chess against a computer , it makes instant choices , 64 squares , thousands of thousands of moves ahead , you telling me someone couldnt write a script for poker to kick someone out of a torni to get them raking on a cash table? lol
You are comparing apples vs oranges. Chess programs are nice and simple, they do not target certain people or change how they play based on random weird assumptions like "fish level."

Sure, someone could write a program to kick you out of a tournament. The question is why would they bother to do that? They make the same money no matter when you get booted.

Computers are powerful, but there has to be some reason behind any of these crimes, and simply doing the Star Trek "make it so" command does not mean it actually happens.

If you get knocked out of a $1 multi tournament, odds are it was just as it seems - you lost a hand with fewer chips then the opponent.

Nice and simple.




Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
yes i do find scientoligy amusing , the guys are making money hand over fist and the believers have have no idea they are being suckered , i guess people are happy handing over their hard earned cash as long as it makes them feel good
Many gamblers get a thrill from the gamble even though they lose. Many players are not nearly as good as they imagine themselves to be (most riggedologists) and create reasons why they lose.

The site makes money no matter who wins or loses, and winning players are happy that the degen gamblers and the legend in their own mind losing players continue to hand over their money. The cost of this process is the rake the site takes, so a winning player has to overcome that as well.

Nice and simple.


Anyway, starting a new cycle of shill benefiting rigged tournaments, thanks for the chat and as always...

All the best.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:15 PM   #4153
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Just got one outed to a royal flush on the river. lol I was so surprised.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:00 PM   #4154
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
What authorities Josem, ROFL. Pokerstars doesnt have any oversight or law enforcement agency that could do anything even if it were proven.
Try this:

Gambling Supervision Commission on +44 (0) 1624 694331 or email gaming@gov.im

to register a complaint about:

Rational Entertainment Enterprises Limited (Poker Stars)
10 Hill Street
Douglas, Isle of Man 1M1 1EF

If you have proof, you should call them and see what consequences there are instead of assuming there are none. Or do you really not have anything to report to them?

Ring ring ring...

"Hello, Gaming Commission, how can I help you?"

"I have a complaint about Poker Stars"

"Certainly sir, I can help you with that. What seems to be the problem?"

"They are rigged"

"Rigged? You mean you believe they are not providing you with an honest game?"

"Yes, they juice the flops to make the pot bigger, help the bad players suck out to keep them in the game longer, and penalize players who cash out by making them lose."

"I see. What information can you provide to help us investigate this for you?"

"Well, uh, my AA always get cracked by some donkey every time I'm on the bubble. And bad beats just happen over and over, way way more than they should."

" I see, sir. Well that certainly sounds serious. Let me get your information and we'll get right on it."
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:31 PM   #4155
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I would love to see some kind of live poker competition between the rigtards and the "shills".

Based on intellect, logical reasoning, grammar, and ability to make competent and coherent posts, my money's on the "shills".

STFU&RELOAD!
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:49 PM   #4156
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
lies on the beach with 12 hookers and jar of edible chocolate knowing that he cant be charged with any laws
What is this "edible" chocolate?

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Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
what the mayor of malta is going to lock up someone that pays him a beach house in taxes every year.
Can you stop saying you're not a rigtard if you are going to post trash like this. Thanks.

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lol its not an English exam. Your a bit of a dick arent you.
You didn't want to bold up the other one then?

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did he eat your hand histories too?
No love for this? I enjoyed it anyway.
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:18 PM   #4157
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
if you prove it then 2+2r's will stop playing there. is that the goal behind your musings?
So do 2+2ers still play at AP/UB only because the RNG wasn't compromised during the cheating and only hole cards could be seen?


Secondly, the responses to my posts have been "bonus cards! It wouldn't look random in the distributions of cards! They'd have to change the cards of other players!static shuffles, blah blah blah"...

This hasn't answered my question. I'm asking if it has been attempted to be measured and if not, why not? Seems like a pretty simple filter to see if hands win at the expected rate during crucial hands. It should not matter if these so called rigged hands would be difficult to supposedly set up.
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:20 PM   #4158
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by AntOWNius View Post
So do 2+2ers still play at AP/UB only because the RNG wasn't compromised during the cheating and only hole cards could be seen?


Secondly, the responses to my posts have been "bonus cards! It wouldn't look random in the distributions of cards! They'd have to change the cards of other players!static shuffles, blah blah blah"...

This hasn't answered my question. I'm asking if it has been attempted to be measured and if not, why not? Seems like a pretty simple filter to see if hands win at the expected rate during crucial hands. It should not matter if these so called rigged hands would be difficult to supposedly set up.
I'm sure it has already been looked into, although you'd have to come up with a quantifiable definition of "crucial."
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:22 PM   #4159
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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So do 2+2ers still play at AP/UB only because the RNG wasn't compromised during the cheating and only hole cards could be seen?
I think the majority of 2+2r's quit playing on those sites when it was PROVEN they were involved in improper business practices. I know that whenever someone posts in The Zoo with a problem at AP/UB they get no sympathy whatsoever.

See, that's the key word there "PROVEN."

I don't believe anyone has checked your specific theory. Why don't you give it a go?
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Old 06-03-2009, 03:35 PM   #4160
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Seems like a pretty simple filter to see if hands win at the expected rate during crucial hands. It should not matter if these so called rigged hands would be difficult to supposedly set up.
If you believe this to be the case do you think sites would be stupid enough to do it? Think about it.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:18 PM   #4161
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I'm curious why the "rigged" people are so actively engaged in this debate. If you think it's rigged why don't you just get on with your life instead of trying to persuade a bunch of people who aren't going to be persuaded. I'm also curious how many of you people still play online poker even though you know it's rigged.
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:26 PM   #4162
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm curious why the "rigged" people are so actively engaged in this debate.
I've asked that several times but the only answer I got was some vague reference to patriotism.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:18 PM   #4163
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by _Towelie_ View Post
I'm curious why the "rigged" people are so actively engaged in this debate. If you think it's rigged why don't you just get on with your life instead of trying to persuade a bunch of people who aren't going to be persuaded. I'm also curious how many of you people still play online poker even though you know it's rigged.
They want affirmation of their belief that bad beats and lost games must be caused by unfair intervention, because they can be so soul-crushingly brutal and frustrating. They don't want to quit playing poker because they enjoy the game, but they just can't grasp the extent of the role that randomness plays in the game, or they just don't want to accept that they may not be as good at the game as they think they are, because the fish/donkey/idiot wins too often.

Then when their quest for some reinforcement comes up against logic and reason in opposition, or worse they encounter ridicule, that adds to the frustration they are already feeling and the result is the insult wars seen in this thread.

Repeat after me: I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggonit, people like me!
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:46 PM   #4164
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

This thread is too entertaining to be discouraging new theories from being advanced.

Rigtards: if you can think it up, THEY can think it up. Keep them coming!
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:05 PM   #4165
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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They want affirmation of their belief that bad beats and lost games must be caused by unfair intervention, because they can be so soul-crushingly brutal and frustrating. They don't want to quit playing poker because they enjoy the game, but they just can't grasp the extent of the role that randomness plays in the game, or they just don't want to accept that they may not be as good at the game as they think they are, because the fish/donkey/idiot wins too often.

Then when their quest for some reinforcement comes up against logic and reason in opposition, or worse they encounter ridicule, that adds to the frustration they are already feeling and the result is the insult wars seen in this thread.
Very well said.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:16 PM   #4166
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'm sure it has already been looked into, although you'd have to come up with a quantifiable definition of "crucial."
I did give my definition of crucial about a page or 2 ago, although I'm sure it could be defined in different ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
I think the majority of 2+2r's quit playing on those sites when it was PROVEN they were involved in improper business practices. I know that whenever someone posts in The Zoo with a problem at AP/UB they get no sympathy whatsoever.

See, that's the key word there "PROVEN."

I don't believe anyone has checked your specific theory. Why don't you give it a go?
I would love to look into it personally but I'm not a statistician, don't have access to millions of hands or the programming know-how to create the software to analyze that amount of data.

Also, they had a thread asking why people on here still play on AP/UB a couple of weeks ago or so and plenty of 2+2ers (including high stakes players) still play on there despite the derision they get when they admit to it.

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
If you believe this to be the case do you think sites would be stupid enough to do it? Think about it.
Having a lot to risk has never hindered questionable/stupid business practices as long as they think there is a chance they can get away with it.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:39 PM   #4167
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Having a lot to risk has never hindered questionable/stupid business practices as long as they think there is a chance they can get away with it.
OK, but even if all businesses are criminal as you suggest they would at least avoid doing this in an area that can easily be analyzed, in this case with all of the hand history data readily available. While you and other riggedologists will never bother to study and analyze hand histories, others actually do. People analyze everything - hands, reward programs, rake per limit - you name it and it is dissected in ways you can only imagine.

Part of crime is to not get caught. This may seem "well duh" to say but usually this is done in areas that are less likely to get caught. All poker sites rigging software in these magical ways would be the equivalent of a car thief stealing only from police yards. Actually, dozens of them. Sure, they might steal cars but they probably will choose ones that are less watched.

You have stats freaks with no agenda that would love to show it is rigged if it was actually rigged. Why would a site cheat in this way? Do it in better ways if you really must commit crimes (while running a very profitable sustainable business...)

Ignoring some of the wackier theories like the Russian mob thing, the fact remains that as a crime this would be utterly stupid to even try to pull off, and yet apparently many believe every single room (dozens to hundreds) do it every day and yet they never get caught. Also, the hundreds of people involved have never said a word.

Maybe they are all criminals cackling and swimming in money. If so, they are doing it in a different way.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:43 PM   #4168
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by AntOWNius View Post
Having a lot to risk has never hindered questionable/stupid business practices as long as they think there is a chance they can get away with it.
The business calculus doesn't quite work that way in a large high profit business. People running such a business are going to do a risk/reward case for any decision. Your example is one that would be too likely to be detected and the decision to not do it would be easy. Rigging the deal isn't something that would be done by a rogue middle-manager, it would be a systemic operation with top-level involvement.

Last edited by spadebidder; 06-03-2009 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:26 PM   #4169
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by _Towelie_ View Post
I'm curious why the "rigged" people are so actively engaged in this debate. If you think it's rigged why don't you just get on with your life instead of trying to persuade a bunch of people who aren't going to be persuaded. I'm also curious how many of you people still play online poker even though you know it's rigged.
142% roi this month and never had a losing month since I started on PS.
Yet I still think its "rigged".

Why would I stop playing if I'm making money?

You basically get used to the "system" and win anyway. When you see a million hands you get to see what the algorithm is like.
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:46 PM   #4170
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Out of pure curiosity, how many hands have you played, K13?

Also, if over 20K, database screenshot or it didn't happen.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:14 PM   #4171
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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142% roi this month and never had a losing month since I started on PS.
Yet I still think its "rigged".

Why would I stop playing if I'm making money?

You basically get used to the "system" and win anyway. When you see a million hands you get to see what the algorithm is like.
Ok wait... wat? How the hell could you leverage this knowledge to your advantage? Do you sometimes intentionally get it in bad b/c of your understanding of the algorithm? I'm confused...
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:25 PM   #4172
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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What is this "edible" chocolate?
bang , zap ! you got me ouch !

in a sentence that runs along the lines of

"sitting on a beach with 12 hookers and a jar of edible chocolate "

i thought it was quite clear what a jar of chocolate was used for as opposed to a block of chocolate


must be over 18

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy View Post
Can you stop saying you're not a rigtard if you are going to post trash like this. Thanks.






post trash like what ? like the government of some island who allows sites to run under its jurisdiction who makes a bucket load of money from taxes and licensing fees is going to kill the goose that lays the golden egg ?

oh nos mario , we justa found out that xxxx pokers was cheating some schleps from another country , if we shuta dem down , we losa 300k clams a year from dah liscena fees , lets justa fine them 1.5 millions clams and put dem on double secret probation
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:46 PM   #4173
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Didn't the Freemasons invent poker?



Or was it the Illuminati? OMG
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:20 AM   #4174
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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When you see a million hands you get to see what the algorithm is like.
You see algorithms......

Riiiight. I'm sure you lay down monsters because your 'algorithm vision' has helped you see that the villain will go runner-runner full-boat.

Also, link to stats or you are just another donk.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:42 AM   #4175
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Coolerstars.
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