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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-02-2009, 11:35 PM   #4126
T. A. Schwitters
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
I agree it would be very difficult for them to do so but nobody said it was supposed to be easy. We went to the moon because it was hard right, not because it was easy. If sites were to try this scheme they would probably make it as complex as possible to avoid detection. And it's not necessarily about increasing the rake per hand. Keeping the fish alive as long as possible and limiting the amount of money regs can make keeps everyone playing longer hours.
Typical of conspiracy theorists: Always coming up with ideas for what could happen, but never presenting evidence showing it does happen.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:37 AM   #4127
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Honestly, if a site cheats people it generally will be in the easiest way possible. Like not paying out withdraws. This super duper fantasy AI stuff is completely impractical as a crime.
Not if they have this guy programming the computers:

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Old 06-03-2009, 12:43 AM   #4128
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Not if they have this guy programming the computers:

Where's the "two-outer" button?
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:45 AM   #4129
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Not if they have this guy programming the computers:


THAT is just efn hilarious! Makes this whole dumb thread almost tolerable IMO.

Thanks
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Old 06-03-2009, 04:55 AM   #4130
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
So which "non-crucial" hands would the site choose for evening out the bonus cards by taking them away from someone else? You can't alter any hands without affecting the entire distribution in multiple interconnected ways.
No one said anything about bonus cards or taking cards away from anyone.

Example: Player X is dealt AA in the SB with 10BB on the bubble, player Y is dealt 52os in the BB. AA goes all-in and loses to 52os. Crucial hand for SB but he loses to BB. Does this happen more than expected.

Don't see how you read what I wrote as bonus cards and removing cards. Didn't say they perfectly set up the hands either.

Also, I'm not supporting the rigged theories. I'm asking if this has been attempted to be measured.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:14 AM   #4131
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

The theory of big stacks running better can be tested by looking at EV vs. actual results from the POV of the person in the hand with the biggest stack and/or from the POV of the person in the hand with the smallest stack.
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:15 AM   #4132
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Interesting cycle






Honestly, if a site cheats people it generally will be in the easiest way possible. Like not paying out withdraws. This super duper fantasy AI stuff is completely impractical as a crime.

errrr not paying withdrawls is a sustainable way to cheat a player how many times once? lol

when a leech latches on to you , it injects a small painkiller and you dont know its there while it gets fatter fatter and rips you off for millions , moves to a desert island , lies on the beach with 12 hookers and jar of edible chocolate knowing that he cant be charged with any laws , while the victim scratches his ankle wondering how the hell he didnt notice.




all is good in the world , no one cheats or scams , well not the site you play on .
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:16 AM   #4133
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by AntOWNius View Post
Example: Player X is dealt AA in the SB with 10BB on the bubble, player Y is dealt 52os in the BB. AA goes all-in and loses to 52os. Crucial hand for SB but he loses to BB. Does this happen more than expected.
For this to happen, the community cards need to be adjusted.

Consequently, to avoid even the possibility of this sort of fraud, you should play at a site that has a 'static' shuffle, where the cards are shuffled and set before the deal commences.
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:26 AM   #4134
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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No one said anything about bonus cards or taking cards away from anyone.

Example: Player X is dealt AA in the SB with 10BB on the bubble, player Y is dealt 52os in the BB. AA goes all-in and loses to 52os. Crucial hand for SB but he loses to BB. Does this happen more than expected.

Don't see how you read what I wrote as bonus cards and removing cards. Didn't say they perfectly set up the hands either.

Also, I'm not supporting the rigged theories. I'm asking if this has been attempted to be measured.
Yes. And you are describing giving player X bonus cards (non-random cards) to help him complete a winning hand that would not have otherwise won that time, and those manipulated cards do have to be taken away from someone else in a similar situation and with similar cards to make the card distribution come out right.
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:26 AM   #4135
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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errrr not paying withdrawls is a sustainable way to cheat a player how many times once? lol

Once to many players which adds up. Lots of online casinos and some poker rooms have done this, some by choice, some because they ran out of money.



Quote:
Originally Posted by too many beers View Post
when a leech latches on to you , it injects a small painkiller and you dont know its there while it gets fatter fatter and rips you off for millions , moves to a desert island , lies on the beach with 12 hookers and jar of edible chocolate knowing that he cant be charged with any laws , while the victim scratches his ankle wondering how the hell he didnt notice.
And yet when the leech gets caught usually bad things happen to it. Riggedology always ignores this possibility by assuming all the rooms use mystical creative techniques that can not be caught ( even when they would get caught).

Your leech comparison would thus be correct if the leech was also invisible, had no way of being detected whatsoever (even though people knew about them), and had no way of being hurt even if somehow it was detected by leechologists who could see the "hidden truth" about them.

It makes for a bad movie plot, but the real world does not work quite like that.




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all is good in the world , no one cheats or scams , well not the site you play on .
Tons of cheats and scams exist in all facets of life, but usually they make some sense and are relatively easy to do. Ask any scam artist if he wants to create a masterpiece level, intricate work of art or if he just wants to get at the money in the easiest way possible.

Riggedology is an amusing faith, however it does distract from the actual negative issues that take place in the online gambling world such as collusion, bots, account security, and smaller rogue sites not paying out cash outs (or honoring bonus terms). Lots of posts about all these topics that have actual real data to back them, why not help fight something that does exist by offering suggestions for how sites can better fight these issues.

Yesterday I had to enter a code on Stars to prove I was not a bot. It was not really fun to do while 16 tabling, and the message popping up on every table was distracting, but I was glad to see that security measure in place.

I also saw a guy who limped with aces early in a sit and go then shoved 1500 to win 50 chips after the 733 flop only to see the BB (who checked pre flop) call with 93. After the hand the AA guy said he was quitting Stars because it was so rigged, since clearly AA losing to 93 proves it. I hope he was not telling the truth about quitting. The BB's ROI was +8% and the losing player's ROI was -65% over a few hundred sit and gos, so Stars must really not like him...

Last edited by Monteroy; 06-03-2009 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:45 AM   #4136
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post



And yet when the leech gets caught usually bad things happen to it. Riggedology always ignores this possibility by assuming all the rooms use mystical creative techniques that can not be caught ( even when they would get caught).

Your leech comparison would thus be correct if the leech was also invisible, had no way of being detected whatsoever (even though people knew about them), and had no way of being hurt even if somehow it was detected by leechologists who could see the "hidden truth" about them.

It makes for a bad movie plot, but the real world does not work quite like that.






nothing bad happens to the leech ? , do you see potripper sitting in a mexican jail cell suffering from burrito arse ? do you see him running down the street being chased by irate poker players carrying pitchforks and burning torches ? lol did ub or ap close with thousands of poker players making protests? lol no nothing bad happened to the leech or the swamp it lived in .
you are talking about an industry that has absolutely no laws that govern them ? what the mayor of malta is going to lock up someone that pays him a beach house in taxes every year.

riggedoligy lol yes its an amusing faith , one which im not ready to become anti in or embrace , i just find interesting ,
now scientoligy ,there is something to make fun of.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:02 AM   #4137
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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nothing bad happens to the leech ? , do you see potripper sitting in a mexican jail cell suffering from burrito arse ? do you see him running down the street being chased by irate poker players carrying pitchforks and burning torches ? lol did ub or ap close with thousands of poker players making protests? lol no nothing bad happened to the leech or the swamp it lived in .

UB and AP's business suffered considerably. No idea why you brought up potripper, his crime made sense (easy and quick and good money without mystical fantasy AI needed).

My point is that if crime is happening, it is happening in a way that is easier and makes a lot more sense then the utterly complex and inefficient methods of crime you suggest. Write a script with a cheesy plan for a James Bond villain or something.


Quote:
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you are talking about an industry that has absolutely no laws that govern them ? what the mayor of malta is going to lock up someone that pays him a beach house in taxes every year.

Your xenophobia is cute, but the market forces of supply/demand and competition do a lot more then you might expect.

I realize you think hundreds of rooms all use complex, innate rigging schemes, none of which ever get caught somehow, but concentrating on fantasy just distracts your from actual real issues.

Still, it is amusing to see you debate your point



Quote:
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riggedoligy lol yes its an amusing faith , one which im not ready to become anti in or embrace , i just find interesting ,
now scientoligy ,there is something to make fun of.
Scientology managed to figure out a way to pre-package basic self help formulas that you can see for free in a basic text book (ie: Maslow's hierarchy) and make tons and tons of money selling to a captive audience.

You make fun of an insanely efficient business model that makes a ton of money yet embrace a belief that is based on making stuff up with no actual gain or real purpose? Creative choice...
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:18 AM   #4138
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Of all the frictional resistances, the one that most ******s human movement is ignorance, what Buddha called 'the greatest evil in the world.'
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:31 AM   #4139
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
your != you're

It really grates on the eyes to see that repeatedly. I suggest not using contractions and sticking with "you are" when your not sure.
lol its not an English exam. Your a bit of a dick arent you.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:39 AM   #4140
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Monteroy View Post
Commandment 2: Thou shalt state an opinion and declare it a fact

Commandment 4: Thou shalt assume

Commandment 5: Thou shalt have no time to test thy theories

and a little bit of implied

Commandment 1: Thou shalt ask others to prove it false


All you new riggedologists recognize what a seasoned vet can accomplish in terms of commandments followed per words used.

Note also how Scooper will never say anything bad about a fellow riggedologist, even the guy who said it was the Russia/Israel mafia at fault, so he is even following commandment 6


Commandment 6: Thou shalt support they brethren unconditionally





Hmm, there should be some commandment in this type of sarcastic response to an obvious fact (that more hands = more beats, maybe it should be less to riggedologists somehow).

Will have to think about this, but it is good to see one of the senior riggedologists back in action to show these raw newer ones the proper way to follow the commandments.
It isnt presented as fact for others, its just that I know for a fact that stars is rigged.

Im not putting another penny into Online Poker so there goes the test.

What can you tell us about the owners of Pokerstars Monteroy? Can you prove that they are honest upstanding businessmen with a great product or are they quite the opposite.

Why is it again Monteroy that you put so much effort into your long responses? What s your incentive? Cmon give us all a good laugh.

What are your shill commandments Monteroy?
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:44 AM   #4141
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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It isnt presented as fact for others, its just that I know for a fact that stars is rigged.
that's fairly hilarious.

a fact can be proven. can you prove this "fact?"
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:55 AM   #4142
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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that's fairly hilarious.

a fact can be proven. can you prove this "fact?"
LAPD and just about everyone else knows that OJ killed his wife. Can they prove it? No but they all know for a fact that he did, why they didnt bother trying to catch anyone else.

I told my teacher at school that the dog ate my homework. Can I prove it? No but I know for a fact that the dog ate it.

Are there shills in this forum? Yes. Can I prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? Probably if I could be bothered? (qpw and Monteroy Im 100% sure about)

Can I prove that Stars is rigged? No but I know for a fact that it is,100% beyond any doubt in my mind.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:57 AM   #4143
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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It isnt presented as fact for others, its just that I know for a fact that stars is rigged.
Then you should report it to the relevant authorities.

Why have you not done this?

You claim that there is a crime happening here - so why have you failed to report it to the appropriate authorities? Are you a lying liar who lies, or are you just lazy?
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:01 AM   #4144
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

[QUOTE=Monteroy;11024142]UB and AP's business suffered considerably. No idea why you brought up potripper, his crime made sense (easy and quick and good money without mystical fantasy AI needed).

QUOTE]

What UB/AP's traffic like before the scandal at peak times?

And yes it is rigged. Another river for my aces to lose to 66 pre. I guess I should be happy for these euromorons to exist except I'm obviously not playing real poker.
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:04 AM   #4145
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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LAPD and just about everyone else knows that OJ killed his wife. Can they prove it? No but they all know for a fact that he did, why they didnt bother trying to catch anyone else.
they don't know for a "fact" he did it, otherwise he would've been convicted. many strongly believe he's guilty, but that's called a "suspicion."
Quote:
I told my teacher at school that the dog ate my homework. Can I prove it? No but I know for a fact that the dog ate it.
did he eat your hand histories too?
Quote:
Are there shills in this forum? Yes. Can I prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? Probably if I could be bothered? (qpw and Monteroy Im 100% sure about)
you can't be bothered to prove anything except your undying faith to Riggedologoy, can ya?
Quote:
Can I prove that Stars is rigged? No but I know for a fact that it is,100% beyond any doubt in my mind.
again, what's in your mind and what's accepted by society as "fact" are two different things.

please remind me what you hope to accomplish here by calling people "shills" and making silly accusations without evidence?
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:04 AM   #4146
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Ever since I stopped posting here I've been winning! Online Poker and 2+2 are in on it!!
Spoiler:
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:05 AM   #4147
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Let the morning bashing begin....
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:25 AM   #4148
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Then you should report it to the relevant authorities.

Why have you not done this?

You claim that there is a crime happening here - so why have you failed to report it to the appropriate authorities? Are you a lying liar who lies, or are you just lazy?
What authorities Josem, ROFL. Pokerstars doesnt have any oversight or law enforcement agency that could do anything even if it were proven.
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:28 AM   #4149
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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What authorities Josem, ROFL. Pokerstars doesnt have any oversight or law enforcement agency that could do anything even if it were proven.
if you prove it then 2+2r's will stop playing there. is that the goal behind your musings?
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:29 AM   #4150
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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It isnt presented as fact for others, its just that I know for a fact that stars is rigged.
This form of reasoning will serve you well in life, it is very open minded



Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Im not putting another penny into Online Poker so there goes the test.
A very smart decision for you to make. Fortunately most riggedologists continue to play and assume their losses are for mystical reasons.

Don't worry, I am sure you think and will claim to be a winning player without being able or willing to prove it. Simply state is as a fact without evidence. You like doing that

Quote:
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What can you tell us about the owners of Pokerstars Monteroy? Can you prove that they are honest upstanding businessmen with a great product or are they quite the opposite.
Even if they are dishonest they are smart enough to cheat people in better ways then you and fellow riggedologists suggest. It is not that I think the world is full of unicorns and rainbows, it is that I believe that high level criminals would not commit crimes in such a silly inefficient way.

Before you do the standard shouts of Enron and madov and ponzi scheme recognize that those were all at the core very simple financial crimes based on exploiting people's greed.


The latest rigged claims are

- Russia/Israel mafia is behind it

- OK, it does not rig it to make more rake, but it changes cards to help fish while changing them back in other hands.


Seriously, just say "flush draws hit too much." It is equally silly, but at least it is simple and not so deep in the paranoid world as to look completely insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Why is it again Monteroy that you put so much effort into your long responses? What s your incentive? Cmon give us all a good laugh.
It's fun helping riggedologists create the basis of their beliefs and also annoying them in between sit and go cycles. I gain amusement at your anger and frustration.

Nice and simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
What are your shill commandments Monteroy?
Why don't you create them since you believe in shills.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Are there shills in this forum? Yes. Can I prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? Probably if I could be bothered? (qpw and Monteroy Im 100% sure about)
PokerStars Game #28446269554: Tournament #165461564, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/05/21 7:50:23 ET
Table '165461564 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: EndlessRainX (1910 in chips)
Seat 2: monkeyboogie (2000 in chips)
Seat 4: Monteroy (5 in chips)
Seat 5: SHolmesPI (3125 in chips)
Seat 6: Thrakktor (1625 in chips)
Seat 7: HoffmannX (1655 in chips)
Seat 8: eSchleicher (3180 in chips)
SHolmesPI: posts small blind 75
Thrakktor: posts big blind 150


PokerStars Game #28794157297: Tournament #167861751, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2009/05/30 13:51:41 ET
Table '167861751 1' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Monteroy (40 in chips)
Seat 3: inspector104 (4090 in chips)
Seat 5: Rustytooth (2710 in chips)
Seat 7: NYCBoro fc (3995 in chips)
Seat 9: Depalma (2665 in chips)
Rustytooth: posts small blind 75
NYCBoro fc: posts big blind 150


Won both of these. Consider that proof for your shilling beliefs. You can even request all the hand histories of that tournament for that thing you never provide - proof.

Anyway, I am a secret Lizard Person. Prove that false.
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