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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:44 PM   #4051
Bingo_Boy
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Someone was asking earlier why we don’t do some researches. Well, the defender crusaders who blindly try to protect the criminals at PS and FT should know that the research has been done a long time ago and here are the facts

Fact #1: PokerStars IT infrastructure is not under the control of any licensing authorities. PS has moved their primary IT infrastructure to the UK and their business continuity data centres are in the UK, Caribbean and US, completely uncontrolled by the authorities, and the regulation driven policies are not enforced relation to the system. This fact establishes a major breach of rules and regulations and implies that PS operation is a multibillion dollar fraud. PS claims that their IT operation is in full compliance with the regulation. This cannot be further from the truth, it is simply a lie in order to mislead the IT unaware public and trying to cloud a picture of a well controlled and authority regulated operation.
The integrity of the system (that includes the state of verified, source control checked, signed software components) that is the most important factor in online gambling is not verified by the authorities and PS misleads the players, users and public by incorrectly claiming that their operation is under control of the authority.

Fact #2: PokerStars ISP is an industry outlaw company Rational Services Limited that is unprecedentedly in the industry is not member of any professional organizations. Rational Services Limited is not surprisingly the satellite company of PS. Using this satellite ISP company PS routes the data and traffic to locations and systems that is not controlled by authorities where most likely their unverified system deploys software bot accounts that steal from SNG and tournament pots. (Our research indicates that these locations are TX US, NY US, London UK, etc).

Fact #3: PS deploys software bots account that implements the simple concept of distributing winning hands to designated system driven bot accounts. With this simple software trick (that as we agreed above obviously not modifies large hand samples nor EV values) PS steal the money an estimated $250,000 day from the SNG and tournament pots.

It seems that UK ‘s law enforcement agencies are already aware of this scam and finally takes it seriously. Hopefully they will stop very soon this fraudulent operation.
1) Our research? Who is in this collective and would they like to present this research?

2) I shall ask again. Would you like to illutrate how you "estimated" this figure of $250,000 or confirm that you made it up? Thanks
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:50 PM   #4052
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Man O' mans! Pokah iz da't riggedd game on'z da intahnet huh? Bett'az not put my cred't card onit. I down't wan't my money taken frum no riggedd sytes."

LMFAO.... Seriously study before you get hostile people!
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Old 05-31-2009, 12:57 PM   #4053
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Old 05-31-2009, 12:58 PM   #4054
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy View Post
1) Our research? Who is in this collective and would they like to present this research?

2) I shall ask again. Would you like to illutrate how you "estimated" this figure of $250,000 or confirm that you made it up? Thanks
That was pretty stupid to post that publicly on 2+2....
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:00 PM   #4055
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Someone was asking earlier why we don’t do some researches. Well, the defender crusaders who blindly try to protect the criminals at PS and FT should know that the research has been done a long time ago and here are the facts

Fact #1: PokerStars IT infrastructure is not under the control of any licensing authorities. PS has moved their primary IT infrastructure to the UK and their business continuity data centres are in the UK, Caribbean and US, completely uncontrolled by the authorities, and the regulation driven policies are not enforced relation to the system. This fact establishes a major breach of rules and regulations and implies that PS operation is a multibillion dollar fraud. PS claims that their IT operation is in full compliance with the regulation. This cannot be further from the truth, it is simply a lie in order to mislead the IT unaware public and trying to cloud a picture of a well controlled and authority regulated operation.
The integrity of the system (that includes the state of verified, source control checked, signed software components) that is the most important factor in online gambling is not verified by the authorities and PS misleads the players, users and public by incorrectly claiming that their operation is under control of the authority.

Fact #2: PokerStars ISP is an industry outlaw company Rational Services Limited that is unprecedentedly in the industry is not member of any professional organizations. Rational Services Limited is not surprisingly the satellite company of PS. Using this satellite ISP company PS routes the data and traffic to locations and systems that is not controlled by authorities where most likely their unverified system deploys software bot accounts that steal from SNG and tournament pots. (Our research indicates that these locations are TX US, NY US, London UK, etc).

Fact #3: PS deploys software bots account that implements the simple concept of distributing winning hands to designated system driven bot accounts. With this simple software trick (that as we agreed above obviously not modifies large hand samples nor EV values) PS steal the money an estimated $250,000 day from the SNG and tournament pots.

It seems that UK ‘s law enforcement agencies are already aware of this scam and finally takes it seriously. Hopefully they will stop very soon this fraudulent operation.
This is what I meant to quote....
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:05 PM   #4056
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
That was pretty stupid to post that publicly on 2+2....
Do you mean "that would be pretty stupid to post publicly on 2+2"?

If so, my answer is that it is pretty stupid to post accusations that you are unable to substatiante either because you have no proof or you are concerned about harming "the investigation" (s******).

Lets say I believe that he is involved in an investigation and does not want to compromise it by divulging who is involved. I would still await the answer to question 2.

Last edited by Bingo_Boy; 05-31-2009 at 01:09 PM. Reason: I note your correction and lol at your concern for erasmus. Mafia hit on way...
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:17 PM   #4057
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Where does he get these nonsense ideas? I think I seen him on the beach yesterday.... He seemed to be deep in his thoughts...





Lmfao
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Old 05-31-2009, 03:08 PM   #4058
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I´m not accusing any poker network of anything, I´m just trying to understand something.

I was thinking about iPoker network, as you know they have many poker rooms. The opened mansion poker and offered a huge bonus f 1st deposit of 200%. I go there, make the deposit, clear the bonus, win some other benefits from the VIP club, fine. Them some months later they open another poker room, they offer you the same 200% deposit bonus. I dont see any sense in that, it seems like they are competing against themselves.

This kind of bonus offerings are so suspicious to me, it seems the same as pokerstars would give you a vitalicious 200% bonus for playing there.


Another point that makes me think, dont you think there are too many poker rroms online? I dont think there are so many online players to justify so many rooms. And there is a lot of rooms that are always amost empty?

What you think about these issues?
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Old 05-31-2009, 03:40 PM   #4059
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Anyone who believes that these sites run a legit, unbiased business 100% of the time, either have not played enough hands to see the bias, are paid to defend poker, or are just plain not very intelligent.
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Old 05-31-2009, 03:48 PM   #4060
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
Them some months later they open another poker room, they offer you the same 200% deposit bonus. I dont see any sense in that, it seems like they are competing against themselves.
Who are 'they'? Each skin is owned and operated independently. iPoker provides the network but each skin is responsible for running their own business. The business model seems to make some sense since the iPoker network is currently 3rd largest in the industry.
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:05 PM   #4061
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I asked to a big poker site if they could send me the database of all the last 500K hands with all hole cards at all stages of the rounds, I said that I wanted the real nickname of the players so I could verify if they really exist and are actually playing at the sites. I told them I would use these data to verify the randomness of the RNG. In advance I told them that I would need some accounts information so I could get in contact with the owners account to verify if they really exist.


I was just joking didnt ask that, but that would be the only way to really run a good data analisys, but thats imossible because they would be disclosing personal information, and thats against the law.

So, we end up in the "beco sem saida". (Its an old latin expression meaning )
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:10 PM   #4062
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Anyone who believes that these sites run a legit, unbiased business 100% of the time, either have not played enough hands to see the bias, are paid to defend poker, or are just plain not very intelligent.
From this I assume you are an intelligent person who has played enough hands to show the bias and you are about to post the database that illustrates this.

Because an intelligent person who plays lots of hands would keep a database and they wouldn't state that there is some kind of bias without the facts to back them up.

Not just another rigtard with a hunch surely?

Last edited by Bingo_Boy; 05-31-2009 at 04:11 PM. Reason: just realised you're not new to this thread, dont bother responding
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:47 PM   #4063
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Some serious answers


Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
I´m not accusing any poker network of anything, I´m just trying to understand something.

I was thinking about iPoker network, as you know they have many poker rooms. The opened mansion poker and offered a huge bonus f 1st deposit of 200%. I go there, make the deposit, clear the bonus, win some other benefits from the VIP club, fine. Them some months later they open another poker room, they offer you the same 200% deposit bonus. I dont see any sense in that, it seems like they are competing against themselves.
Much of it is competition among themselves, which is how the Crypto network eventually failed (that and too generous a rewards plan for low level players).

Many of the terms of clearing the bonuses are not particularly great, especially without an immediate VIP upgrade, and some that were way too generous (pokerplex for a while) had to change their terms to one that made sense. Simply saying 200% deposit bonus lacks context of the clearing bonus conditions.

A room can offer a 200000% deposit bonus but if it clears $1 per 10,000 raked hands it does not matter how much bonus money you can theoretically clear. Realistically you will clear 0.

The rooms themselves are all separate from each other so the "then they open another room" is not quite what you think it to be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
This kind of bonus offerings are so suspicious to me, it seems the same as pokerstars would give you a vitalicious 200% bonus for playing there.
Again, it depends on the terms and conditions. Most are not as good as they seem, though once in a while a few are very solid. A few years ago they were as good as they seemed, but that changed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
Another point that makes me think, dont you think there are too many poker rroms online? I dont think there are so many online players to justify so many rooms. And there is a lot of rooms that are always amost empty?
There most certainly were too many rooms for a long time which is why you have seen so many rooms and networks merge, and some just vanish. This is a natural part of a mature industry and the basic laws of supply and demand.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:45 PM   #4064
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

full tilt is rigged.
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:02 PM   #4065
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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full tilt is rigged.
ur rigged
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:50 PM   #4066
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

What would you say if i told you that my buddy opened second account on full tilt, made a deposit and made 2 final tables on 26$ MTTs just after that ?
And on his old account he has -9% ROI. Could it be just a coincidence ? Or full tilt is rigged ?
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Old 05-31-2009, 06:58 PM   #4067
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Username^^ View Post
What would you say if i told you that my buddy opened second account on full tilt, made a deposit and made 2 final tables on 26$ MTTs just after that ?
And on his old account he has -9% ROI. Could it be just a coincidence ? Or full tilt is rigged ?
Thats a clue....If you stay from the room for months when you return usually you get some good cards initially.

At least thats my feeling, could be wrong.
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:06 PM   #4068
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Username^^ View Post
What would you say if i told you that my buddy opened second account on full tilt, made a deposit and made 2 final tables on 26$ MTTs just after that ?
And on his old account he has -9% ROI. Could it be just a coincidence ? Or full tilt is rigged ?

I'd ask for proof you have a buddy.
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:10 PM   #4069
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'd ask for proof you have a buddy.
I could send you nicknames, and a screenshot of double final table (9th and 1st palce), but i wont do it becouse you will report him to full tilts support and i don´t want that. But i can asure you this is 100% true. I could send you a screenshot of him making me transfer from one acc, and a screenshot with his 2 final tables with another account.
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:11 PM   #4070
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'd ask for proof you have a buddy.
lol +1
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Old 05-31-2009, 07:18 PM   #4071
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I'd ask for proof you have a buddy.
I´d ask for a proof that you dont have sifilis.
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Old 05-31-2009, 10:28 PM   #4072
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I´d ask for a proof that you dont have sifilis.
Had to look that one up in the Merck Manual.
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Old 05-31-2009, 11:09 PM   #4073
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by toltec444 View Post
Thats a clue....If you stay from the room for months when you return usually you get some good cards initially.

At least thats my feeling, could be wrong.
so just make a deposit, play win withdraw move to a new site play win withdraw move to a new site play win withdraw move to a new site play win withdraw move to a new site .....
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:29 AM   #4074
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I strongly believe in the 'newcommer-fish-heater' dogma.
It makes sense from a casino's perspective to feed a beginning gambler initially with great luck, just to reap his degenerate deposits for a long period afterwards.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:03 AM   #4075
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I strongly believe in the 'newcommer-fish-heater' dogma.
It makes sense from a casino's perspective to feed a beginning gambler initially with great luck, just to reap his degenerate deposits for a long period afterwards.
Have you forgotten the question of why a casino would care who specifically wins pots? What difference does it make whether a player is a newbie, when they take a rake from all pots?
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