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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:56 AM   #3876
Stars
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Multi layer plausible denialbility... that is the scam that keeps most people from never even thinking of it, and when they bring it up it is denied by the 'majority', who is also in on it for their own interests, or might not be in on it but have enough interest to sub consciously back the scam.

Pokerstars and full tilt may be on par with madoff if a government official could get over there and check them out.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:57 AM   #3877
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

[ ] bots can win NLHE tournaments
LOL, in your dreams

The state of the art is barely able to compete in fixed limit heads-up freezeouts (which is a lot more deterministic).

Bots in cash games can eke out a small edge at small stakes and massively multi-table to make money. They have no chance whatsoever in MTTs.

Edit - and ICM bots can probably do ok in SnGs.

Last edited by spadebidder; 05-28-2009 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:05 AM   #3878
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Stars View Post
Multi layer plausible denialbility... that is the scam that keeps most people from never even thinking of it, and when they bring it up it is denied by the 'majority', who is also in on it for their own interests, or might not be in on it but have enough interest to sub consciously back the scam.
It would be sort of fun to live in the mind of a deeply paranoid person for one day just to feel what that thinking process is like. All of this makes sense to these people (sadly based on his posting history this is not a weird leveling guy)

This fellow stretches the boundary of the Riggedology faith quite a bit as it seems this deep paranoia is likely appropriate to everything in life to a person like this. No doubt he has similar theories about every type of conspiracy possible.

Some riggedologists stick to just online poker with their mystical conspiracies and are likely reasonable humans in the real world outside of online poker, so it must make them cringe to see the manifestation of the extreme version of their thinking as represented by posters like Stars.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:14 AM   #3879
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Online poker is rigged (new evidence)

Just gathered some recent evidence that online poker is rigged. Three episodes of Poker after Dark aired three of the biggest donkeys ever shown on TV, and these comics won there way on to the show through an online MTT at Full rig(tilt) poker.
Ken Light
Paul Featherstone
Arnold Thimmons

You tell me how these three advanced through thousands of players with there absolute lack of knowledge about the game.

FR(T)P rewards the donkeys with river suckouts and bad beats to the better players. Proof is in the pudding.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:18 AM   #3880
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Re: Online poker is rigged (new evidence)

Live poker is rigged...Chris Moneymaker, Jamie Gold...
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:25 AM   #3881
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
This would show up in an EV tool, as the non-designated accounts are not getting the cards they need as often as the designated accounts are, and are thus winning less than their share.
No, it wouldn’t show up. Would the EV value change if the Oxford university mathematics faculty enters in the game and the number of winners would increase? Obviously not. Likewise the EV value remains the same if the number of winners increase because of the bot software accounts.

Increasing the number of winner should not relates to the EV value, and that’s all I am suggesting: the sites increases the number of winners by deploying the cash sucker bot software accounts.

90% of the players (like myself) just simply can’t play poker, making bad, irrational decisions at the end of the tournament, when the chips count over 70,000 we just can’t handle the pressure, pushing all in the worst possible time, etc. – we recreational players are the habitual losers of the online poker community. We are perfectly capable to lose with AA when KK or three suited cards is on the flop, because we don’t pay attention that KK or three suited cards on the flop, pushing the whole f...g thing in and just going down by nature. Doesn’t matter what the odds are, f...k the EV - whatever analytical value is there we are going to lose. We are just simply lack of the skills (certain type of quickness, risk assessment, mental strength, etc) that makes a player winner. In other hand 10% of the players are the winners. They can play and regardless of odds and EV tool they will manage to be on the final table and be the winner in long term. The winning and losing a pretty much settled down thing in poker – increasing the number of winners by 1% with bot accounts is nothing to do with EV value.

So, if the poker site increases the winner group by 1% by in order to get additional share from the 90% habitual loser’s contribution to the Israeli-Russian PS mafia wealth by deploying winner bot accounts, in my opinion has no relevance to EV. 90% of the player would lose and the 10% winner would win anyway, regardless of cards. The distribution of AA, KK, QQ, etc remains the same (random) and complies with the statistical expectation and only the winner account will be different in certain cases.

This simple explanation I believe disprove the java-developer-millionhand-analyser spadebidder theory that only the increased number of players can generate extra revenue for the site. It is pretty obvious that malicious software components, distributing winning cards to designated account can increase site revenue as well.

I am pretty sure the Israeli-Russian PS mafia is not going to miss using this very simple software trick that requires about 500 lines of modifcation in their software source in order to take out an extra $250,000 a day. They can do it without risk, because the industry is unregulated, uncontrolled by the government, their system has never been fully audited, their system at offshore anyway outside of the control of gaming authority, the regulation driven policies are not enforced.

You guys here just either don’t understand how criminal mind takes advantage of certain situations, how software works, you are naive or get a little paid for what are you doing here. I can’t see other reasons you blindly defend the PS and TF mafia.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:28 AM   #3882
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Stars View Post
Pokerstars and full tilt may be on par with madoff if a government official could get over there and check them out.
Off course they are par with that rat. The same bunch of Israeli mafia, in PS case backed by the Abramovich and Berezovsky caliber Russian criminals.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:41 AM   #3883
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
[B]This simple explanation I believe disprove the java-developer-millionhand-analyser spadebidder theory that only the increased number of players can generate extra revenue for the site. It is pretty obvious that malicious software components, distributing winning cards to designated account can increase site revenue as well.
So you are saying that the site runs its own bots, and then rigs the deal to make sure the bots win, so the site gets to keep the winnings and doesn't have to pay it out. Ok, this is certainly a new tangent. Very creative mind at work.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:42 AM   #3884
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Re: Online poker is rigged (new evidence)

damn ken light is sorry.

palyin mad scared on pad.

$maker and gold is luck+agression.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:54 AM   #3885
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

this forum is rigged also,obv.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:59 AM   #3886
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Prove it false.

One true fact, its in fine print. Its for entertainment purposes only.

Prove sites don't use bots. Let me tell you something, not even the agency that verified FTPs RNG will flat out say FTP does not use the bots.

So, they verified the RNG...but cannot verify whether or not the site is legit itself. I know, they weren't paid to do so. But wouldn't you expect them to have a bit more confidence?

They are all offshore...play at your own risk. And I have said this once before. If I owned my own poker site, like any other human would, id rig the **** out of it and laugh my ass off all the way to the bank.

Period.




Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
So you are saying that the site runs its own bots, and then rigs the deal to make sure the bots win, so the site gets to keep the winnings and doesn't have to pay it out. Ok, this is certainly a new tangent. Very creative mind at work.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:00 PM   #3887
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Re: Online poker is rigged (new evidence)

I'm convninced by this new groundbreaking evidence. I will now have to close my on line account even though I am making money, to keep my integrity...
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:01 PM   #3888
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Re: Online poker is rigged (new evidence)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokedurrrr View Post
Just gathered some recent evidence that online poker is rigged. Three episodes of Poker after Dark aired three of the biggest donkeys ever shown on TV, and these comics won there way on to the show through an online MTT at Full rig(tilt) poker.
Ken Light
Paul Featherstone
Arnold Thimmons

You tell me how these three advanced through thousands of players with there absolute lack of knowledge about the game.

FR(T)P rewards the donkeys with river suckouts and bad beats to the better players. Proof is in the pudding.
SHHHHHHH....The'ye watching you.
http://shiftydog.ytmnd.com/
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:07 PM   #3889
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Re: Online poker is rigged (new evidence)

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Originally Posted by EggRollsRoyce View Post
SHHHHHHH....The'ye watching you.
http://shiftydog.ytmnd.com/
lol
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:09 PM   #3890
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
So you are saying that the site runs its own bots, and then rigs the deal to make sure the bots win, so the site gets to keep the winnings and doesn't have to pay it out. Ok, this is certainly a new tangent. Very creative mind at work.
Well, that's what they do (according to software engineer colleges that left that rotten place and according to coomen sense) and that's what I have been explaining here for days. The criminal mind is simple and effective. I have the privilige to experience with that in financial software field on daily bases - it works exactly same way in the poker software industry, a simple solution to a complex problem.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:11 PM   #3891
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Re: Online poker is rigged (new evidence)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokedurrrr View Post
Just gathered some recent evidence that online poker is rigged. Three episodes of Poker after Dark aired three of the biggest donkeys ever shown on TV, and these comics won there way on to the show through an online MTT at Full rig(tilt) poker.
Ken Light
Paul Featherstone
Arnold Thimmons

You tell me how these three advanced through thousands of players with there absolute lack of knowledge about the game.

FR(T)P rewards the donkeys with river suckouts and bad beats to the better players. Proof is in the pudding.
On behalf of the entire poker playing universe, thank you very much.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:13 PM   #3892
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
So you are saying that the site runs its own bots, and then rigs the deal to make sure the bots win, so the site gets to keep the winnings and doesn't have to pay it out. Ok, this is certainly a new tangent. Very creative mind at work.
It must be semi-serious as it is tragicomic that we suckers keep putting the money in the Israeli-Russian mafia pocket.

Anyway, the number of players increases, because long time off-line recreational players like myself enters into the online game in increased numbers regardless the bot software accounts in place or not, and deploying bot accounts indeed can generates revenue for the operator. There is no relation between the two things whatsoever and you must know that very well.

I don’t want to sound unpolite dear spadebidder, but I am f...n pissed off from you mate. It is hard to believe that an impressively intelligent individual like yourself bull****ing here 24/7.

You pushed to me the links about the Chanel Island authorities (I replied to that a few days ago). We did the research and it turned out, that the PS and FT mafia is completely outside of the control of the Chanel Island gaming authority, their systems at offshore, their smartly messed-up IT operation is exactly what you can see at a usual Israeli-Russian criminal enterprise and it is nothing to do with a genuine business operation.

Please stop to bull**** here, it seems you are a very intelligent fellow, so it is truly discussing what you trying to achieve here. You have no idea how their software works (nobody has because their operation is not transparent), you have never seen a full audit report (nobody has), you have absolutely no idea whether the authority verified software component or the tricky software is in place at the offshore location data centres (nobody has), therefore please stop to claim that these criminals delivers a fair game. Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:22 PM   #3893
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQUITyestarday View Post
Prove it false.

One true fact, its in fine print. Its for entertainment purposes only.

Prove sites don't use bots. Let me tell you something, not even the agency that verified FTPs RNG will flat out say FTP does not use the bots.

So, they verified the RNG...but cannot verify whether or not the site is legit itself. I know, they weren't paid to do so. But wouldn't you expect them to have a bit more confidence?

They are all offshore...play at your own risk. And I have said this once before. If I owned my own poker site, like any other human would, id rig the **** out of it and laugh my ass off all the way to the bank.

Period.
You cannot prove a negative. In debate, the onus is on the accuser to prove the claim.

Also, it was not the auditor's job to investigate the possible use of bots. Thus, it is not their place to speculate.

Sometimes, I'm actually surprised that some people even find their way onto this forum.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:26 PM   #3894
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by IQUITyestarday View Post
Prove it false.
Hmm, I think this would be a perfect first commandment for the riggologist faith.

Commandment 1: Thy shall ask others to prove it false

It is general, and completely flawed in the use of logic, however it leads to all sorts of perfectly vague unprovable impossibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQUITyestarday View Post
Prove sites don't use bots.
or for the more creative

Prove Russians are not behind it all.

Prove Lizard People are not behind it all.


In fact, commandment two could be

Commandment 2: Thy shall state an opinion and declare it a fact

a good example

Quote:
Originally Posted by IQUITyestarday View Post
One true fact, its in fine print. Its for entertainment purposes only.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:28 PM   #3895
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Schwitters View Post
You cannot prove a negative.
F...k you, it is nothing to do with prove the negative.

These Israeli-Russian criminals claims and makes the statement in the first place that they will deliver a fair game. Therefore they must back that statement with credible resources such as full IT audit report of the whole system including business continuity sites, source control process report, list of authority verifyed software components of the system, system integrity check report, etc.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:30 PM   #3896
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Re: Online poker is rigged (new evidence)

Quote:
Full rig(tilt) poker.

FR(T)P
cute
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:57 PM   #3897
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
***********, it is nothing to do with prove the negative.

These Israeli-Russian criminals claims and makes the statement in the first place that they will deliver a fair game. Therefore they must back that statement with credible resources such as full IT audit report of the whole system including business continuity sites, source control process report, list of authority verifyed software components of the system, system integrity check report, etc.
Watch it PokErasmus, if you can't contain your emotions take a break from posting in this thread. Swearing at other posters could end up getting you banned and then we would all lose the entertainment of getting a glimpse into your paranoid world.
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:13 PM   #3898
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Pokeranus is now on ignore. Raving madmen disturb me.

I don't defend poker sites, I just look at the evidence on both sides and have a rational debate, and it's pretty one-sided. If someone showed evidence of rigging I'd enjoy investigating it.

Russian-Israeli mafia? omfg
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:31 PM   #3899
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

in the military they teach you to deny everything,admit nothing and then counter accuse(i.e call them paranoid,etc)
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:38 PM   #3900
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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in the military they teach you to deny everything,admit nothing and then counter accuse(i.e call them paranoid,etc)
Do they teach punctuation?
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