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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

08-07-2011 , 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Stop saying I have blind faith in the sites....
Awwwwww, little boy can dish it out but can't take it. Must be that time of the month.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Awwwwww, little boy can dish it out but can't take it. Must be that time of the month.
What are you wittering on about?

A dislike of being misrepresented is nothing to do with his occasional bitchfests.

Either link to a thread where he has indicated that he has complete faith in sites or be seen as a liar.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 03:45 AM
After 4 months of Cake and Bodog, I'm gonna have to say yes.
But by "yes," I'm stating that the cards themselves do not reflect actual odds, that a 3:1 favorite will not win 75% time, more so like 66%.
Countless times I have witnessed on Bodog, where HU hands will flip flop leads in action fashion.
i.e. KQ vs AK
Flop: 3 Q 5
Turn: A
River: K

I don't understand how the same player can continuously get away with 4:1 underdogs and not be punished. I also have witnessed many more coolers than what i believe to be statistically normal.

Anyway, what also adds to my "theory" is the fact that when I first started on cake after BF, I was flopping two pair and sets like it was my job, running $100 into 3.5k in less than a week. I've gained a lot of experience and feel I've become a lot better in those 4 quick months, however the results are inverse. My All in EV at cake has me projected at 5300, I only have 2100 in profit, furthermore running 400 bb's under on bodog for just this week, dunno what to do.

That's my two cents, but even though the cards imo are not random, the game will always be beatable...
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
Both sides have some evidence
The rigged side have no evidence. All you have is "feelings" and mistrust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
What I question is the blind faith in the fairness of all these sites held by posters such as Wiki and Monteroy.
There is no blind faith. Nobody has ever presented anything suspicious despite many looking so it seems fair to assume there is nothing suspicious.

It sounds like you have a decent database so why haven't you checked out that AK hit/miss suited flop stat? Or have you checked and not liked what you saw? It was explained how and why one aspect of your original accusation could be checked so here is your arena for providing the evidence to shut the "shills" up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Wow, you really are a complete idiot. I always presumed it before but you have now removed all doubt. We know they will steal your accounts but you can't prove they stole any rake.... almost the same as the lost wallet analogy.
Well you can prove it but you don't, probably because it hasn't happened. The wallet analogy is apt. Apt! If you want to let your hatred of pokersites get in the way of a logical argument I'd suggest you're the idiot.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawzer0
...I'm stating that the cards themselves do not reflect actual odds, that a 3:1 favorite will not win 75% time, more so like 66%.
...I don't understand how the same player can continuously get away with 4:1 underdogs and not be punished. I also have witnessed many more coolers than what i believe to be statistically normal.
Have you actually analysed these frequencies, or is it your estimation? People are very bad at estimating statistics, which is why we need to actually capture data and analyse it statistically.

Quote:
Anyway, what also adds to my "theory" is the fact that when I first started on cake after BF, I was flopping two pair and sets like it was my job, running $100 into 3.5k in less than a week...
Heaters happen, and it feels like you're a winner rather than just getting a randomly good run at the cards. Anyone with experience playing will have felt the same thing (and the opposite where everything seems to be rigged against you) - we cannot help it.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyromantha
He was pointing out that you mistyped 'too' as 'to' when you said 'it doesn't look to legit'. For some reason he doesn't want to explain this himself, probably thinks it makes him seem intelligent and mysterious.
This post makes you look intelligent and mysterious.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
This post makes you look intelligent and mysterious.
All of us shills are intelligent and mysterious.

It's part of the job description.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 05:46 AM
Refresher courses can be beneficial
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
Refresher courses can be beneficial
So, as a riggie - basically, a customer, where do you think I need to do the most work, the intelligence or the mysteriousness?

Providing a top quality service is always at the top of my agenda.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
So, as a riggie - basically, a customer, where do you think I need to do the most work, the intelligence or the mysteriousness?

Providing a top quality service is always at the top of my agenda.
I expect riggies value mystery over intelligence.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55
My real point is, and always has been, that only the sites have the data to settle the issue.
Which is wrong, as has been explained. Your "real point" will constantly change when people explain why it is flawed, unless you choose to ignore them, which you will eventually do.
He's not wrong, he's right. Any data held by any agency other than the site where it originated will likely be incomplete.

Any testing done on incomplete data will produce approximate conclusions only.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
He's not wrong, he's right. Any data held by any agency other than the site where it originated will likely be incomplete.

Any testing done on incomplete data will produce approximate conclusions only.
That's one reason why this 'debate' will never be concluded.

Although there are hundreds of millions of HH's out there no one will ever collect them all.

And for a confirmed riggie that means that there will always be somewhere he can claim the rigging is hiding.

However, for normal people, the fact that there are so many people with large HH collections, many of whom are quite capable of the stats required to check them, together with the complete absence of any credible example of rigging, is enough to provide persuasive evidence that OLP is probably not rigged.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
This post makes you look intelligent and mysterious.
That's clever.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
However, for normal people, the fact that there are so many people with large HH collections, many of whom are quite capable of the stats required to check them, together with the complete absence of any credible example of rigging, is enough to provide persuasive evidence that OLP is probably not rigged.
That's as maybe, but with hole-card information persuasive has a chance of becoming conclusive.

I claim to have ten black dogs. You say you won't believe me unless I show you. I show you nine black dogs to support my claim. Are you then satisfied my claim is valid?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
That's as maybe, but with hole-card information persuasive has a chance of becoming conclusive.
But, even if a site tried to supply the full data, hard core riggies would simply claim that the data was either faked, or incomplete.

Thus there would no point in them even trying.

And the fact that the vast majority of players do not seem to allow concerns about rigging to stop them playing means it's really not something the sites need to worry about.

Hell, even most of the rigtards keep playing when they believe that the sites are heavily rigged against them.

Quote:
I claim to have ten black dogs. You say you won't believe me unless I show you. I show you nine black dogs to support my claim. Are you then satisfied my claim is valid?
Generally, I would be satisfied that there was a very high probability that your claim was valid.

Of course, if I had reason to distrust you I might assume that even if you showed me 10 black dogs, they were not all your own, or, perhaps, that some were white dogs dyed black.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
That's one reason why this 'debate' will never be concluded.
Good fun though aint it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Of course, if I had reason to distrust you I might assume that even if you showed me 10 black dogs, they were not all your own, or, perhaps, that some were white dogs dyed black.
Why would I rig my dogs? What could I possibly gain from it?

One black dog is more than enough for me for the time being.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:55 AM
The old ones are the best:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1879493
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
Why would I rig my dogs? What could I possibly gain from it?
Er, more rake?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
The old ones are the best:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1879493
True.

The most complete example of this that I've seen.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
The old ones are the best:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1879493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
LOL. Keep up the good work.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
...Generally, I would be satisfied that there was a very high probability that your claim was valid...
I would have to disagree there. If he showed me 9 dogs in an attempt to prove that he has 10 dogs, then it's very likely that he actually has 9 dogs.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothninja
I would have to disagree there. If he showed me 9 dogs in an attempt to prove that he has 10 dogs, then it's very likely that he actually has 9 dogs.
If it was blatantlyfrigged I would assume he'd stolen nine dogs.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
If it was blatantlyfrigged I would assume he'd stolen nine dogs.
I disagree again. I would feel honoured to be introduced to his family. Though I rather suspect that if br needed to prove he had both a mum and a sister, he would only need to show me one dog.

Last edited by gothninja; 08-07-2011 at 07:28 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
Of course, if I had reason to distrust you I might assume that even if you showed me 10 black dogs, they were not all your own, or, perhaps, that some were white dogs dyed black.
Why would I withhold evidence that would vindicate my claim? My reluctance to offer up all of the evidence should be reason enough to distrust me.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-07-2011 , 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
726 of your 756 posts are in this thread.

Were your other 30 posts productive? Did you signup here just to post in this "rigged debate" thread?
Don’t start on posts bar boy your 18,036 at 10 minutes a post = 3006 hours
At 8 hours per day = 375 days
You claim. Over the last 5 years average 11 hours a week winning 22,251.41 = $38.90 an hour
If you played poker instead of posting you would have won $116,933.40
.
If you had of played 8 hours a day [$311.20]5 days a week [$1556] over 5 years you would have won $404,560
.
WTF do you post ????????????????????????????????????????
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