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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
No 5,522 56.02%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9858. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-01-2009, 03:10 PM   #351
MicroBob
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

"I'm a winning player. I'm really good I promise. I've even read books therefore I must be good. But when I play I lose. It can't possibly be my fault that I lose. Here, let me make up some numbers about the number of times I lose on the river that aren't even close to correct even though I believe it probably is the number. Anyway, since I know my losing can't possibly be my fault it must be the site's fault and they are out to get me."


OP - How many hands have you played? If you've played 200 hours on one table then that might be 60 hands per hour for 12k hands or so which still isn't very many to be honest. What are your stats? Feel free to post some of your hands of some of your losses or hands that you think you played well for 'feedback' (and by feedback I naturally mean 'so we can make fun of you'). I bet that would be a better way to determining why you are losing. The reason is that you aren't good at poker but if you want proof you can post a few hands you think you played well and I'll be very surprised if it actually is played well.
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:04 PM   #352
TexArcher
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

All poker players who honestly believe that online poker is rigged are not as good at poker as they think they are.

There are no exceptions.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:17 PM   #353
BotOnTilt
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexArcher View Post
All poker players who honestly believe that online poker is rigged are not as good at poker as they think they are.

There are no exceptions.
Won't UB / AP players count as execptions?
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:25 PM   #354
gfm198
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Ok all you brillant players (especially those are already registered with PKR!! or those who want to prove a point?). Play the micro stakes, let me know when and your username and I will watch and see how good you are?

Any takers????
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:40 PM   #355
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

^^^
you were already asked to post some hands.

one challenge at a time, tough guy.
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:34 PM   #356
TexArcher
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfm198 View Post
Ok all you brillant players (especially those are already registered with PKR!! or those who want to prove a point?). Play the micro stakes, let me know when and your username and I will watch and see how good you are?

Any takers????
Why would a winning card player want to waste time playing microstakes to convince you that microstakes aren't rigged?

If you really are consistently beating your buddies in your live game but you can't beat online microstakes, that doesn't mean that online poker is rigged, it means your buddies suck even worse than the online microstakes donks (which would be a hell of feat for your buddies, but I suppose it's possible).

Fortunately, there is a truckload of free information on poker available online. You can massage your ego by telling yourself that the games are rigged or you can spend that time learning to play better poker. Your choice.
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:40 PM   #357
IceCreamSammichGuy
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

OP, you might not know that I'm the biggest PKR Rigging Affiliate since it's not mentioned in either Doyle or Helmuth's books, but you are basically the only player on that site who didn't sign up through me. Thus, you are the recipient of more than your fair share of bad beats without any delicious ice cream sandwiches to soothe your pain.

Think of me next time you are looking for a new place to play.
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:48 PM   #358
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfm198 View Post
If you read every book on hold'em and played at the highest level, then came down to micro stakes you would have to simply change the way you play. These players have learnt chasing the draws is very profitable with the implied odds, fair play to them!



My gripe is however the sheer high percentage that the draws hit. The law of averages means that after 100's of drawing hands it should be around the 1 in 3 chance. But this is not happening.
So whats the problem then? Why dont you just overplay your draws like they do and make money??
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:05 PM   #359
Al4as
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

I read that post 3 times a week for 4 years...

I still do it tho, just a funny reminder of why there are people like me who can win at this game

' its not me, Im good !'
' I cant beat bad players!! they are too lucky!'
' Riiiiiiigged'
' Not me! Them!'
' I read Hellmuths book!! the guy has like 10 bracelets, wheres all my winnings?'
' Unluckiest in the universe! me ! not my fault !!'
' Riggeeeeeed'
and my fav: ' I beat all my friends at live poker! its the same game right? So why cant I win online?'

Also, why are you playing there if you think its rigged? Damn I like to ask that question
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:17 PM   #360
CyberKnobby
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmargarine View Post
You are currently in Stage 3 of your interwebz poker development grasshopper.

Stage 1 (discovery)- They have poker on the internet? Cool! Let me try it.
Stage 2 (success)- ZOMG, I am so good and these guys I play against are so bad, I'm gonna be a pro and I'm gonna get a Porsche and I'm gonna make a gajillion dollars and I'm gonna...
Stage 3 (post-setback)- This crap be rigged, yo.
Stage 4 (variamemory)- You know, it does look like it will all even out eventually. I forget the times my QQ beats AA but remember the times it happens the other way. I remember when they suckout on me but don't even think about the other 19 times where my hand held because he didn't suckout on me and he just folded and I never saw his cards.
Stage 5 (restart)-If I take this seriously and actually learn the games and improve and grow in knowledge, I could possibly make some coin at this stuff.
I absolutely loved this post, having made it to stage 5 only about 2 months ago.

Also, you should change "post-setback" to "WTF! Haxz!"
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:18 PM   #361
MKarne
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

I needed to read three lines to figure he is either an idiot or a troll.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:00 AM   #362
sopoRific
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmargarine View Post
You are currently in Stage 3 of your interwebz poker development grasshopper.
Which is the "I'm glad this is rigged because it's the only way I make money" stage? That's probably where I'm at.

(And how come one never makes "Internet pokers is rigged in my favor" posts?)
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:54 AM   #363
otter
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKarne View Post
I needed to read three lines to figure he is either an idiot or a troll.
Only an idiot would have to read that far j/k....sorry couldn't pass that one up
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Old 01-02-2009, 04:06 AM   #364
Ramon Scott
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Use the "Think" action before u make your move. PKR rewards those who do.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:09 AM   #365
gfm198
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Still no takers? Now why does that not surprise me?

Too busy making big money in high level cash tables to make silly money at micro stakes to prove me wrong. But not too busy to be slagging off people in the forums!!!


If you actually read the post before jumping down my throat you might actually give better answers or advice.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:53 AM   #366
DiamondDog
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Stop it. You're making yourself look ridiculous.

Post hands that you're not sure about.

People might then be able to help you improve your game.

And for your information I'm most definitely not a good player. If I was I wouldn't still be donking it up at $5nl and $10nl (although I will say that of all the sites I've played at, PKR was far and away the softest.)

The key thing is, I'm trying to improve by studying the game and learning as much as I can about how to play it. Which, in my opinion, is what you should be doing.

Getting into some sort of dick-measuring contest isn't going to help.
OK, OK, you're a much, much better player than me. There, feeling better? I thought not.

Now, post some hands. There are people on this site who are only too willing to help learners like you and me.

Good Luck.
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:18 AM   #367
normalcy
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

OP is right! OMG i can't believe it. I played 5k hands at 10nl to see what would happen.

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Old 01-02-2009, 10:24 AM   #368
GeeseHoward
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by normalcy View Post
OP is right! OMG i can't believe it. I played 5k hands at 10nl to see what would happen.

Is 5,000 hands at this level actually mean anything?

Serious question as I thought 5,000 sounds a lot.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:30 AM   #369
Markusgc
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfm198 View Post
If you actually read the post before jumping down my throat you might actually give better answers or advice.
I believe most people stopped at the "200 hrs" and the "absolutely no doubt" part. After you read another book or two you'll understand why.
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:28 PM   #370
gfm198
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Diamonddog, as I said read my post then answer. I never once said I was a good player!

Back to the OP.


I here the word variance mentioned a lot. Ok I have to admit I have not read up on this subject but I feel I have a good understanding of it nevertheless (probabilities anyway)


200hours of play; thats includes a hell of a lot of chasing drawing hands?

Let me explain:

1. The lower the percentage of an outcome the more the variance can be.

2. The higher the percentage (or certainly around 50%) the lower the variance will be.

Let me give examples:

1. You hit a royal flush one day, you could quite easily go the rest of your life without getting one. An extreme example of a massive variance.

2. You flick a coin up in the air 100 times a day for ten days.
results would look something like this:
day1 heads 55 tails 45
day2 heads 52 tails 48
day3 heads 51 tails 49
day4 heads 47 tails 53
day5 heads 60 tails 40
day6 heads 45 tails 55
day7 heads 49 tails 51
day8 heads 53 tails 47
day9 heads 50 tails 50
day10 heads 52 tails 48

Totals heads: 514 tails 486 not much of a variance and will never likely to be unless your gonna take a smaller sample size.

If you got 700 tails and 300 heads what would you say? I would say dodgy coin!!

Back to the drawing hands (straights and flushes only!)

sample size 100 hits between 20 and 43%, thats your variance

sample size 1000 hits between 28 and 38%, again thats your variance

sample size 1000 (lets say 200hrs of play) hits 50%. hmmmm... rigged cards???

This is my thinking, if that's all wrong then I will apologise and just hope one day that variance swings my way because yet again I did not today!!


Good luck on the felt and dont take it too seriously!
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:36 PM   #371
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Opps.. forgot to say Normalcy I'm English not Asian or Australian yet another assumption made which was wrong!

This is the main problem here everyone is too quick to jump on the bandwagon and stick the knife in.

Chill
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:16 PM   #372
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

I believe it is rigged.......

"A major university recently completed a study of the on-line poker site FullTiltPoker.Net, the “free” side of Full Tilt Poker.

Over the course of the one-year study students entered into, but did not play in, over 10,000 9-person Sit & Go No Limit Hold’em 250 (play money) tournaments. Player stats were recorded, and later analyzed. Over 57,000 individual hands made up the study sample.

The study revealed that the dealing of cards at Full Tilt Poker is not random. The site has a tendency to deal a statistically abnormal amount of “big” hands, including straights, flushes, full houses, four of a kind, etc.

The odds of “hitting” a particular hand when seven cards are dealt from a 52-card deck are easily calculated. We won’t go into the gory mathematical details, but you are certainly invited to look them up for yourself if you don’t believe us.

For example, when seven cards are dealt from a 52-card deck, the odds of hitting a royal flush are approximately 500,000 to 1. That’s why you don’t see very many of them in the real world, let alone get one yourself. Yet, on Full Tilt we saw a royal flush in approximately 1 out of every 4,432 hands dealt, over 1,000 times as often as statistical probability would dictate. Several of our players were dealt more than one royal flush over the course of the study.

Oddly, a non-royal straight flush came up in 1 out of 7,203 hands during our study. With a random deal, the probability of hitting any kind of non-royal straight flush is approximately 83,000 to 1. That probability is multiplied by a factor of 10 at Full Tilt.

The most common winning hand in our tournaments at Full Tilt was 2 pairs. It came up on average 1 out of every 13 hands, about twice as often as statistical probability would dictate. With a random seven-card deal from a 52-card deck, a 2-pair hand should come up every 21 hands on average.

Likewise, all the other “big hands” occurred far more often on Full Tilt than one would expect from a truly random (and honest) deal. A straight came up in 1 out of every 54 hands dealt. Normal odds for a straight are 1 in every 283 seven-card hands. Likewise, a flush came up in 1 out of every 54 hands, the same as straights. In the real world, we would expect to see a flush in approximately 1 out of every 500 hands, or about half as often as a straight. On Full Tilt straights and flushes come up with almost equal frequency, yet another statistical anomaly.

Interestingly, the most common straights on Full Tilt are the ace high straight and the five high straight. They came up more than four times as often as any other kind of straight. This, in and of itself, represents another glaring statistical anomaly.

Hands with three-of-a-kind were observed in 1 out of every 27 hands, almost twice the 1 out of 47 hands one expects to see in the real world.
A full house came up on average 1 in every 71 hands dealt. This far exceeds the 1 in every 694 hands you will see in the real world.

Hands with four-of-a-kind occurred on Full Tilt in one 1 of every 281 hands, far more often then the 1 out of every 4,166 hands one expects from an random deal.

We can only conclude that Full Tilt does not deal cards randomly, but is programmed to produce big hands. Perhaps this makes for more “exciting” play, but it is less than honest."
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:18 PM   #373
nathanscott
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Has anyone ever seen this? So true!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r89tSAxAu0c
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:30 PM   #374
normalcy
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Re: PKR is rigged!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfm198 View Post
Opps.. forgot to say Normalcy I'm English not Asian or Australian yet another assumption made which was wrong!

This is the main problem here everyone is too quick to jump on the bandwagon and stick the knife in.

Chill
so, English people don't actually speak English as their native tongue. you people learn British, which is a slightly inferior dialect of English. once again.. its not your fault.. no
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:32 PM   #375
Skipjack
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Nathan is this study printed somewhere other than this forum?
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