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Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-25-2009, 01:14 PM   #3551
otatop
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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20K Bet ?
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Look man, I am not trying to check screen names. That is stupid. I WANT TO BET. I WILL LAY YOU 1-1 ON a $20,000 pool. Or ANYONE for that matter. I dont want to check names thats kind of queer. I want to BET. I do beat it for an insane rate. I put more work in the game than you could probably imagine. I studied the game half a year before I even played as well as learned prob and stat before I ever put a real $ amount down in the game. With the expected bb/100 hands i should win 9.62. I run below expectation at every single stake I have ever played. I didnt want to come to reality but I'd be a sucker if I didnt.

[snip]

So yes you wantt o bet or no you dont want to bet, 20k prize pool. 1-1 since your so confident. I should get even money for this.
.
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Old 05-25-2009, 01:45 PM   #3552
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Yeah, total shock to see he may have been stretching the truth just a tad.

Even so, he was more interesting then the guy who uses this thread as his whine bad beat playhouse (while never understanding why he always loses long term).

People who think it is rigged specifically against them are boring clueless whiners. People who say it is rigged for all sorts of magical reasons are much more fun, as they are the deep to the core paranoid people.
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Old 05-25-2009, 02:22 PM   #3553
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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wouldn't it be much easier for sites to take an extra penny in rake every 145th hand or something rather than elaborate schemes to determine which players need help to win hands and then adjust the deal so they can win a pot now and again regardless of how tragic their decisions might be with the end result being they get to play a little longer and pay more rake?
Not to mention how difficult it would be to create an algorithm that needs to re-distribute equity to players based on how recently they deposited/how long the tournament has been going on. Then they would need to keep track of who they've made run good/bad and correct that, so when you analyze a large sample, there is no discrepancy compared to a non-rigged site.
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Old 05-25-2009, 03:58 PM   #3554
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I love when two horrible players go up against each other and it's a veritable battle of trainwreck mistakes. That must make the Rigged RNG really flip out as it tries to adjust the flop, turn and river to help the (presumably) worse player win as both of the ******s try to outmaneuver each other and all fundamentals of competent play. I guess it must be rigged though, because it would seem neither mongoloid deserves to win the pot, but eventually, and quite shockingly, it gets rewarded to one of 'em.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:02 PM   #3555
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Not to mention how difficult it would be to create an algorithm that needs to re-distribute equity to players based on how recently they deposited/how long the tournament has been going on. Then they would need to keep track of who they've made run good/bad and correct that, so when you analyze a large sample, there is no discrepancy compared to a non-rigged site.

There´s no need to create an algorithm to re-distribute equity to players. An algorithm that makes favorite hands win less frequent than expected yet close to the expected is enough. The site wants to keep the money in the table the longer they can, there is only one way to make that, and a simple one, TO MAKE FAVORITE HANDS WIN A LITTLE LESS FREQUENT THAN EXPECTED.

And thats why bad beats are so frequent in online poker rooms.

They can change algorithm from time to time, like that DOOM button everyone imagines.

Dont ask for proofs, I dont have. But sometimes we should not ask why would someone do something, but rather why they wouldn´t.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:10 PM   #3556
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Dont ask for proofs, I dont have.
Q.E.D.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:19 PM   #3557
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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**** YOU AGAIN PS.

So ****en Bull****. Dude ****en hits seven inside straights in a row on the river.

I lose every single 70/30 today.
please prove those claims to be true.
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****en worthless site rewarding these ****en worthless foreigners who suck at poker.
I think it's safe to say you're worthless despite your nationality. I couldn't argue with my international buddies if they said because of it. I'd also love to see your hand histories to see if you don't suck at poker.
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I guess I should stop getting chat banned maybe I won't run so bad.
maybe if you just didn't chat you wouldn't suck as bad. based on your posts here I'm sure your table chatter is not terribly enlightening.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:19 PM   #3558
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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There´s no need to create an algorithm to re-distribute equity to players. An algorithm that makes favorite hands win less frequent than expected yet close to the expected is enough. The site wants to keep the money in the table the longer they can, there is only one way to make that, and a simple one, TO MAKE FAVORITE HANDS WIN A LITTLE LESS FREQUENT THAN EXPECTED.

And thats why bad beats are so frequent in online poker rooms.

They can change algorithm from time to time, like that DOOM button everyone imagines.

Dont ask for proofs, I dont have. But sometimes we should not ask why would someone do something, but rather why they wouldn´t.
I do have proof, that a simple skew like this this is definitely not happening on any major site. I'll post it later this week once the full analysis is ready (of hundreds of millions of hands). I showed a preliminary version of this before, but the final one is even more conclusive. Thus a redistribution of equity would be needed to make it harder to detect (but that is still detectable, just not with a simple showdown analysis). As has been shown before in this forum, the musical chairs necessary to redistribute equity would be extremely difficult to pull off in a way that doesn't cancel out any rake benefit. It would require a sophisticated profiling scheme where classes of players get some of the equity from another class, so that they add up to true expectation. Obviously that is still detectable if you identify the classes to compare results.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:20 PM   #3559
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Dont ask for proofs, I dont have. But sometimes we should not ask why would someone do something, but rather why they wouldn´t.
your parents should ask themselves that question about reproducing.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:29 PM   #3560
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Its one of the main reasons why online casinos was banned in USA, and why it will be banned in russia. Becouse its just to easy to rig the games. All they need to do is keep money moving. And i am almost sure that most of you run waaay above your EV.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:41 PM   #3561
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

The riggedologists can't quite grasp the fact that a complex system involving the redistribution of equities would be so incredibly difficult to make work, that any money made in doing such wouldn't even cover the amount of money spent on creating such a thing. In the end, it wouldn't be worth it to try.

The sites have much more to lose (read: millions of players and billions of dollars in rake) should they rig the software to increase rake than they stand to gain by getting a few extra cents out of the pot. It would be easier (and cheaper) for them to implement a new marketing tactic to increase their player base than to design complex software to increase their profit by a few cents here and there.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:41 PM   #3562
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
I do have proof, that a simple skew like this this is definitely not happening on any major site. I'll post it later this week once the full analysis is ready (of hundreds of millions of hands). I showed a preliminary version of this before, but the final one is even more conclusive. Thus a redistribution of equity would be needed to make it harder to detect (but that is still detectable, just not with a simple showdown analysis). As has been shown before in this forum, the musical chairs necessary to redistribute equity would be extremely difficult to pull off in a way that doesn't cancel out any rake benefit. It would require a sophisticated profiling scheme where classes of players get some of the equity from another class, so that they add up to true expectation. Obviously that is still detectable if you identify the classes to compare results.
It will be a good time watching you answer those who know the "HIDDEN TRUTH" regardless of anything silly like actual data. Do not underestimate a seasoned riggedologist's ability to make up new and sexier mystical power based rigged concepts on the fly.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:45 PM   #3563
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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It will be a good time watching you answer those who know the "HIDDEN TRUTH" regardless of anything silly like actual data. Do not underestimate a seasoned riggedologist's ability to make up new and sexier mystical power based rigged concepts on the fly.
Remember, you can have all the mathematical/statistical proof you want, but if they lose one single 60/40 in which they a favorite, all of your hard work is worthless because of that hand.
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Old 05-25-2009, 04:48 PM   #3564
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

go live...
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:02 PM   #3565
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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go live...
what a worthless 1st post/gimmick account.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:15 PM   #3566
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Its one of the main reasons why online casinos was banned in USA
When did this happen?
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:39 PM   #3567
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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go live...
If you look at the thread title, you'll see this is "The great 'Poker is rigged debate,'", not "The great 'Online Poker is rigged debate.'"

All poker is rigged, imo.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:44 PM   #3568
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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All poker is rigged, imo.
I have a little game like this at my house:


I hit a royal flush on it last night. I'm sure it was just because I'm a fish and they wanted me to keep playing and paying rake though.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:46 PM   #3569
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I agree, that probably was the reason.

Fish.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:54 PM   #3570
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

yeah, well - they gave me 2k points for that, so I had 2010 when all was said and done.

I'll be playing for a while now, so they'll get that back in rake real fast.
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Old 05-25-2009, 06:56 PM   #3571
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Proof that Stars or Tilt isn't rigged

Why doesn't a pro or the sites themselves show a large sample size of hands to proove hands are holding up like they should and all the odds are correct ? This is possible to do with pokertracker right ? I personally dont think either of these sites are rigged but I would also like to see some conclusive evidence to proove their not. So why hasn't this happened yet ?

* disclaimer * I'm not confident 100 percent though everything is on the up and up. I worry about bots and even super users on both of these sites. Although I feel pretty safe at 200 nl but who knows if I should ? I wonder how far down the cheating went at ub and absolute. Why wouldn't there be super users in the small games to? That would be the place to do it if you were smart. Although this has nothing to do with the topic. The topic is why hasn't a pro or someone with a large sample size shown proof that hands hold up the way they should and the odds are on point ?
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:01 PM   #3572
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Re: Proof that Stars or Tilt isn't rigged

Stars gave a third party all the hands from December 2008 to look at and the company found the deal fair.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:02 PM   #3573
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Re: Proof that Stars or Tilt isn't rigged

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I personally dont think either of these sites are rigged but...
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* disclaimer * I'm not confident 100 percent though everything is on the up and up.
Standard.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:16 PM   #3574
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Re: Proof that Stars or Tilt isn't rigged

Majority of pros would never play online unless they were paid/sponsored for it.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:20 PM   #3575
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Re: Proof that Stars or Tilt isn't rigged

And majority of pros like have negative results online.
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