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Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:55 PM   #3301
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I wasn't fully aware of the details with FTP (although I *thought* that KGC wasn't their only regulator). Thanks for the info.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:07 PM   #3302
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
I'm curious how that would be different from the countries already regulating online poker, including UK, Ireland, Italy, Australia, and the UK properties Isle of Man, Alderney, and Gibralter, and a number of other EU members.

Do you think the poker sites run a different game for US players than they do for players in those countries?
Actually, much as it pains me to do so, I feel I must be scrupulously fair here.

I think that what tk1133 imagines will happen is that the US will 'regulate' on line poker and all the sites will magically relocate to the US and voluntarily place themselves under US control.

What that would mean is that a lot of their activities would fall under US law which is a lot easier for US citizens to access than Isle of Mann law.

Of course, I may be ascribing him waaaay to much inteligence here and he may just believe that US regulation is some sort of machina ex deus.

Or my other theory may be correct - that he has figured out some angle he can shoot to make money out of such regulation - lord knows how, though.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:14 PM   #3303
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Or my other theory may be correct - that he has figured out some angle he can shoot to make money out of such regulation - lord knows how, though.
he'll make money by playing poker and finally beating all the fish that suck out on him since it's rigged for them.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:28 PM   #3304
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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What that would mean is that a lot of their activities would fall under US law which is a lot easier for US citizens to access than Isle of Mann law.
There's some validity to that idea.

Here's another aspect. Most U.S. players who play online poker are either playing on one of the big four sites (PS FT UB AP), or on a network site that accepts US players (like Merge, Cake, or Bodog). Each brand running on these networks is its own company, many of them owned by US citizens, and that brand/company is liable for their own players and the fairness of the games. The network operator only gets around 20% or less of the rake anyway, and doesn't have a big motivation to cheat, and actually has a lot of incentives to run an honest game, perhaps moreso than the big independents, since they have to answer to all their affiliates. Also the skin owners don't have control of the game or the software and probably can't cheat if they wanted to. The reason these skin owners set up a layer of shell companies licensed in hokee jurisdictions like Costa Rica or Kahnawakee (usually with multiple layers in multiple jurisdictions) is to protect the owners from prosecution if US authorities got a bee in their bonnet to go after poker sites. The ownership is obfuscated through several layers and several legal jurisdictions, giving them some protection. It isn't so they can avoid scrutiny of the games and get away with rigged deals.

Last edited by spadebidder; 05-14-2009 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:36 PM   #3305
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Ok lol, While I cannot prove the QPW and Spadebidder are shills and employed by online poker sites to monitor and keep online poker rigtards "in line." And I have no physical evidence to back up the assumption they are personal friends with the some of the posters that show up out of nowhere and "speak for the people." I also have no proof that I think they are here as a sort of media manipulation that online poker has the same chance of being fraudulent as the odds that big foots exsist. So I retract the statement that I factually titled them as "shills." I will rephrase for the record that their actions and conduct would be that of a shill. So it is, in my opinion, that they are in the most probable of ways, shills.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:37 PM   #3306
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

My mom can win at PS and she does not even know how to play poker. lol
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:40 PM   #3307
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

For the record, I'm not paying 382 dollars back to pokerstars when a glitch in their echeck system(which they admitted to) costed me over 800 dollars in over draft fee's to my bank...That's a discussion and personal matter that's really none of your business....if there was a conspiracy behind it, I wouldn't of admitted to it(on purpose)
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:41 PM   #3308
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

If I'm so uncredible and wrong about everything, why do people keep responding to me? Why do I keep being addressed? Are you guys debunkers or something? I shoot off at the mouth too much so I just post links for you to get your own information. Go to the PPA website and look at the fine prints of the bill.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:47 PM   #3309
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Ok lol, While I cannot prove the QPW and Spadebidder are shills and employed by online poker sites to monitor and keep online poker rigtards "in line." And I have no physical evidence to back up the assumption they are personal friends with the some of the posters that show up out of nowhere and "speak for the people." I also have no proof that I think they are here as a sort of media manipulation that online poker has the same chance of being fraudulent as the odds that big foots exsist. So I retract the statement that I factually titled them as "shills." I will rephrase for the record that their actions and conduct would be that of a shill. So it is, in my opinion, that they are in the most probable of ways, shills.
You have no proof that you think something? Do you read over your posts even once before clicking "Submit Reply"?
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:49 PM   #3310
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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If I'm so uncredible and wrong about everything, why do people keep responding to me? Why do I keep being addressed? Are you guys debunkers or something? I shoot off at the mouth too much so I just post links for you to get your own information. Go to the PPA website and look at the fine prints of the bill.
Why do I keep watching Vancouver Canucks games? Because while it may be painful and at times aggravating, in the end it is sometimes fun to dream that they can succeed at some point along the line.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:54 PM   #3311
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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For the record, I'm not paying 382 dollars back to pokerstars when a glitch in their echeck system(which they admitted to) costed me over 800 dollars in over draft fee's to my bank...That's a discussion and personal matter that's really none of your business....if there was a conspiracy behind it, I wouldn't of admitted to it(on purpose)
But when you next get your paycheck from RealDeal for probably shilling for them, will you pay back what you owe or will you coninue to be a scummy little thief?
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:56 PM   #3312
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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If I'm so uncredible and wrong about everything, why do people keep responding to me?
Because you are probably a shill for RealDeal.

And we want to know how much they are paying you.

So, how much (probably) is it?
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:57 PM   #3313
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I will rephrase for the record that their actions and conduct would be that of a shill. So it is, in my opinion, that they are in the most probable of ways, shills.
For the record, I work as a senior manager at a major Internet company in the U.S. with absolutely nothing to do with poker, and poker is my hobby. I have no business relationship with anyone even remotely connected to the online gaming business. However, I research things and educate myself so that I can have an intelligent conversation about the topics I'm interested in. Like online poker. I began playing online poker regularly last summer, and I also play in a live league. In the league I'm up thousands and I'm in the lead to win a seat to the WSOP Main Event this year. Online, I'm down a couple grand but working on getting better. It's entertainment money for me. Blaming losses on a rigged deal isn't going to help me get better.

I know a bit about math and statistics, and a lot about business. I'm working on some analysis to try to refute some of the rigged nonsense, simply because I can. And because I enjoy solving problems and writing code and playing with statistics. And because even rational people like to see the evidence that all is as it should be. And because studying poker helps me understand the game better, which leads to improvement.

You aren't helping your case by calling everyone who disagrees a shill.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:28 PM   #3314
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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You aren't helping your case by calling everyone who disagrees a shill.
Interestingly I suspect that people like tk1133 and supperdish are actually far better at disuading people from the idea that sites are rigged than those of us who try and use logic and maths.

Not everyone who has a suspicion that a site's card are not 100% fair is an idiot.

Probability maths is a very counter-intuitive subject.

But when they come on here and see the utter brainless *****e the likes of the above two posters come up with I suspect that they may well change their ideas double quick.

Would you want to share any common purpose with th1133 and supperdish?
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:34 PM   #3315
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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For the record, I'm not paying 382 dollars back to pokerstars when a glitch in their echeck system(which they admitted to) costed me over 800 dollars in over draft fee's to my bank...That's a discussion and personal matter that's really none of your business....if there was a conspiracy behind it, I wouldn't of admitted to it(on purpose)
lol.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:37 PM   #3316
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
For the record, I'm not paying 382 dollars back to pokerstars when a glitch in their echeck system(which they admitted to) costed me over 800 dollars in over draft fee's to my bank...That's a discussion and personal matter that's really none of your business....if there was a conspiracy behind it, I wouldn't of admitted to it(on purpose)
lol.
FYP.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:38 PM   #3317
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I like how TK isn't smart enough to realize that you shouldn't keep writing checks when there are outstanding checks that haven't cleared. Oh well, they all cleared on the same day. Who is the dumbass for overdrafting their account due to faulty banking practices?
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:39 PM   #3318
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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But when they come on here and see the utter brainless *****e the likes of the above two posters come up with I suspect that they may well change their ideas double quick.
I have a buddy who is fairly poor at poker. However, he's a shark at his pub league. Before he played at the bar regularly, he was losing consistently online and wanted to blame the sites. Once he was around the dregs of the poker community he realized how ******ed all these God-Awful players sounded blaming everything on everything but their own lack of skill.

he now thinks he's unsuccessful due to basically the same reason bad low-limit live players feel they can't win - because fish don't respect their raises and such.

but at least he has sense enough not to be that guy who thinks Cake Poker chose him to be their personal whipping boy. and now we know why they would do that though - 'cause he's American and there's no US Regulation.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:39 PM   #3319
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
For the record, I'm not paying 382 dollars back to pokerstars when a glitch in their echeck system(which they admitted to) costed me over 800 dollars in over draft fee's to my bank...That's a discussion and personal matter that's really none of your business....if there was a conspiracy behind it, I wouldn't of admitted to it(on purpose)
And besides, how dare the bank and Poker Stars conspire to charge you fees for writing bad checks to play poker with money you didn't have. That sh.t is rigged!

Dammit, banks should be regulated .... oh wait...

Last edited by spadebidder; 05-14-2009 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 04:41 PM   #3320
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Of course, I may be ascribing him waaaay to much inteligence here
This cannot be stressed enough.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:00 PM   #3321
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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FYP.
I mean you guys really want to turn this into an issue? Believe me if it wasn't for my own morals and personal integrity I'd be writing a post about how poker stars screwed me this that and the other. Because I don't see it that way.
I should of had my money in the bank account, that I had solely set up for online poker, available at the time of deposits. I went to the extent of setting up my work paychecks on direct deposit with that particular bank account to cover deposits and such. I agree with that. However, withdrawing over 21 business days later a months full of depositing b/c their echeck systems were down and not notifying me in advance was their fault as well. They acknowledged their error but also pointed out my error which I also acknowledged. Therefore it's a double fault. However costing me over 800 dollars in overdraft fee's is a problem. They refused any responsibility and told me to take it up with my bank. This error costed me my entire bankroll and all the cash in my pocket. Overal, I feel they should of negated my balence in light of the overdraft fee's(Which I copied and faxed them) I suffered as a result of their errors. I mean I really didn't want to go there. Anybody notice on stars that they started posting the actual dates of when the deposits were going to physically clear heir bank accounts. I can tell you I am 1 out of 300 reasons why they implemented that to the echeck deposit method. I think it was around this time last year....April or may of 2008
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:05 PM   #3322
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Not sure why you quoted my post, since I was just helping db make fun of your writing. But I did enjoy the fact that you made most of the same mistakes again. Kudos on "overdraft", though. Nice to see you learned something today.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:09 PM   #3323
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

"Pulling the tails of rigtards?" Does that serve a greater purpose then that of my own?
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:27 PM   #3324
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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"Pulling the tails of rigtards?" Does that serve a greater purpose then that of my own?
Kind of. Doing that is amusing.

Your quest is sort of vague and poorly thought out and pointless.


So yes basically.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:37 PM   #3325
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

TK's inability to adhere the conventions of written English is putting me on life tilt.
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