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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

05-17-2011 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Start thinking of riggies as livestock and it becomes easier. You still treat them as humans so you keep trying to have a rational debate (and how has that gone so far). Just imagine they are saying "moooooooooooo" only it is "shilllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll" and the rest falls into place. Fated is basically a message board hypochondriac, so good luck with that time sink.





Your friend is lying to you, or you are lying to us, or you both believe this without realizing it is a lie.


Still, here is what I will offer. If your friend can prove this with his hand history database then I will send you $100. If he cannot then you send me $50. We will need to escrow this tiny bet as well, because I do not trust any riggie to even own $50 otherwise, and since you must believe your friend this represents potential free money to you and him.

Note, I will be able to tell if his hands are in the order as you state as it will be very easy to look over his detailed play history via sharkscope to ensure that he is not cherry picking results. We will be able to request tournament hand histories to confirm the hands he is saying are true and that no other all ins took place that he is leaving out.
And of course, Mr. "i can teach you how to beat a manipulated deal" steps up to the plate.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pimppoker

The same few falkers on here cover up anything written of value with thick layers of redundant verbal diahreah. I can see why people claim this thread is being moded by shrills. It would make sense to a paranoid mind tho, uh ho call in the troops, someone here is attempting to articulate valid reasons based on logical tendencies and personal experience for suspecting FTP might be “rigged”. Obviously it’s a waste of time to try to do so, point made sir. :conf used:


God, this is pure gold!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
[/B]

This comment is in reference to the post above. Expect anything different? This forum IS run by shills and poker sites, no doubts whatsoever.


A Dictionary of the English Language

by Blatantlyrigged

Dreamer (n): A person who does not believe in ascribing guilt without evidence.

Rigged (adj): Following expected statistical patterns.

Shill (n): One who does not subscribe to the nonsense posted by rigtards.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
And of course, Mr. "i can teach you how to beat a manipulated deal" steps up to the plate.

Yes or no, do you specifically believe the claims his friend made about all ins where he was an 80% favorite?

I dare you to answer this specifically , and you still have yet to list who the shills are specifically and which sites they work for.

Come on, don't be afraid! Stop evading simple questions!!!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
You think youre pretty sneaky eh? You are, good job!
To the point though, id say bingo boy is one. Probably nfuego. Im sure im missing many, but how could i tell you which site? Who knows, maybe a few combined?
Which is a good example of the rigtard mind at work. I happen to have made a lot of posts recently so you think I'm a shill but if you had answered the question two weeks ago you would have made up some other names.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812

Ah, now you ask for data, (but distinguish it from proof) and any analysis but first imply I must have made up the figures (liar); See, you are just a paid shill. Or just a **********. Take your pick.
I am bored with you. You take offence at being lumped in with the rigtards but if anyone tries to get any kind of meaningful response about your beliefs you resort to the usual rigtard tactic of completely ignoring the questions and/or lashing out. So:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
The abnormalities that I see that generally defy logic are
1. 25% hands hitting over 50% of the time, generally ak v a-rag all in preflop.
Liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
2. Omaha - trips on the board in a session 100x more than the probability to seeing them
Liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
3. All in players with garbage hitting nuts on the flop or turn.
Liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
4. The turn hitting everyone in the hand. I am talking about the one card in the deck that hits everyone....say the 7 of diamonds gives one guy the nut draw, someone else two pair, another guy a straight/draw.
Liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812

5. In NL and PLO, lead changes from flop, turn and river that defy the expected probabilities.
Liar.

B&M shill.

Idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1
Anyone who is reading this looks at the way those who support online react to you, how they insult you, and attack you, or anyone else who think it's rigged.
Do they also notice how people like you lie and then go quiet when you get called on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firegoat777
Then you play the same game at the same site and run -150% over a 1.5 year and 1,000 game sample. 45 player sit n go's.
Wow. You do run bad.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firegoat777
Heres the real deal.....


Some of you have probably had similar experiences, so put yourself in my shoes..

You play Microstakes.

You play online poker for 3 years at a major site and run at +40%on a particluar game over a 3 year and 8,000 game sample.

Then you play the same game at the same site and run -150% over a 1.5 year and 1,000 game sample. 45 player sit n go's.

Over time you notice.....

a) You run bad at key moments losing flips routinely when there are 9-18 players left
b) Its almost impossible to shove steal on the button without being called late
c) Donkeys who play every hand last longer then expected.
d) People don't get knocked out much despite the amount of ALL IN showdowns
e) Your card distribution is always bad
f) You almost always are dominated when you are called pushing by the top of their range
g) Random unknown players defend the site saying crap like "..don't play then if you mention the rigged word in chat"- like it was somehow their own personal jesus.
h) The standard of play is bad, consistently
i) When you get Aces they fold pre-flop
j) KK loses more to Ax then it should as an all in flip.
k) Your sets hardly ever make full houses, ceratinly not as much as you will be beaten by a running dog four flush.
l) you move tables too often when big stack

At some point you ask yourself? I really would like to know if it is rigged!


This could happen to anybody, it is really happening to me. You run bad, it could mean anything. Still you just want to know the truth.

Look at it from an honest player perspective. If you conclude that the only REAL way of knowing is to DATA MINE thousands of tournaments, which is both frowned upon by the sites and not encouraged by the tracking software. Since you wish to continue playing on the site you follow their rules and guidelines and don't collect the data.

Meanwhile, the question must be asked, IF the sites are legitimate, then in most cases we should have no reason to doubt that they are sincere in their attempts to broker an honest game.

Then.... why don't the sites allow players to police their own games?

The ability to independently research the integrity of the games you play in as a player would seem necessary in todays poker environment. But for some unknown reason, players are not allowed access to hand histories in tournaments they have payed to enter. Nor are they allowed information on how tournaments unfolded in tournaments they don't play in directly.

In my opinion, this places the independently motivated player at a severe disadvantage to 3rd parties who quite possibly could be cheating other players and the sites.

If Internet poker is rigged its probably rigged because of a few potential possibilities like...

-Technical hacking of either the client software, your computer or internet routing etc
- Collusion
- Bots
- Inside employees being corrupt
- Time lag manipulation

If 3rd parties are RIGGING the game. The status quo is that it is currently almost impossible for honest players to police their own games without breaking site term and conditions. And yet it doesn't have to really be that way. So why do so many people put the onus on individual players to gather game data to prove that the games are not rigged, when it might be in everybodies interest to allow some transparency for game integrity! Especially for those players who pay to play in their own games.
So can I take it from this the sites do not allow you to monitor and record data from games where you are not playing? Because if this can be done it would provide a lot of information. This is what I was suggesting, keep data across the board on how the odds are running. Some are saying these new programmes can do this, but do sites not allow it? If not, are you allowed to monitor and keep data from games you are playing? If you are, at least this would provide key data on how you are personally running. If some players get different odds to others in certain situations it may highlight this.

Somewhere there is an answer. It involves me sitting on my arse while others do all the work, but some people make a career out of that. Can it be done?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatedToPretend
I did take that advice, which makes it annoying when people suggest that I just ignore advice, but unfortunately the program wouldn't run on my computer.
Yes, I remember that. I have a hard time believing that there is no solution to that problem.

Also: from a brief search of your recent posts, you are hardly posting regularly in the strat forums. When you have, you have not followed the standard protocol in presenting hands and naturally have had disappointing results.

Quote:
Surely I can take that advice but still post queries here about this topic? Or not take the advice and still post queries? Personal advice for my poker situation, is not relevant to this topic.
Sure: but a lot of your queries would be solved by following the other advice.

Quote:
I've been perfectly reasonable with you, I'd love you to treat me the same and explain what question(s) you think I have asked over and over.
I have been reasonable with you. I have even withdrawn my suggestion that you constantly bring up the same things over and over again. Why do you insist on dwelling on the least important part of the discussion?




@Monty: Any post now....Any post!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
And of course, Mr. "i can teach you how to beat a manipulated deal" steps up to the plate.
Liar! again no evidence! lol go watch your magic612 video rofl
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Yes, I remember that. I have a hard time believing that there is no solution to that problem.

Also: from a brief search of your recent posts, you are hardly posting regularly in the strat forums. When you have, you have not followed the standard protocol in presenting hands and naturally have had disappointing results.

Sure: but a lot of your queries would be solved by following the other advice.

I have been reasonable with you. I have even withdrawn my suggestion that you constantly bring up the same things over and over again. Why do you insist on dwelling on the least important part of the discussion?

@Monty: Any post now....Any post!
Feel The Power of The Dark Side.

You know you want to.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 02:56 PM
Come join us Arouet and you too can just make fun of gimmicks, general riggies, weird guys, and geezers who seem shocked that this new fangled technology stuff can be used to track hands in the year 2011 and ask "can it be done?" about stuff as complicated as blinking and sneezing.


Join us...

If you need to practice , here are some suggestions:

For fated: just reply to his posts with bizarre general questions that lead nowehere and watch the show. Repeat yourself often, and sometimes ask the exact opposite question, then after that revert to the first one. Add in a state,ent about how cats can be scary or something equivalent once in a while.

For that blatantgimmick: ask simple yes and no questions and that is it. He loves those

For the Geezer riggie: show him links of technology as it has been invented but do it slow. He might be ready for the concept of radio at this point.

As always, riggies are there for entertainment value, so be sure to respect them for that purpose.

Last edited by Monteroy; 05-17-2011 at 03:02 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firegoat777
Heres the real deal.....


Some of you have probably had similar experiences, so put yourself in my shoes..

You play Microstakes.

You play online poker for 3 years at a major site and run at +40%on a particluar game over a 3 year and 8,000 game sample.

Then you play the same game at the same site and run -150% over a 1.5 year and 1,000 game sample. 45 player sit n go's.

Over time you notice.....

a) You run bad at key moments losing flips routinely when there are 9-18 players left
b) Its almost impossible to shove steal on the button without being called late
c) Donkeys who play every hand last longer then expected.
d) People don't get knocked out much despite the amount of ALL IN showdowns
e) Your card distribution is always bad
f) You almost always are dominated when you are called pushing by the top of their range
g) Random unknown players defend the site saying crap like "..don't play then if you mention the rigged word in chat"- like it was somehow their own personal jesus.
h) The standard of play is bad, consistently
i) When you get Aces they fold pre-flop
j) KK loses more to Ax then it should as an all in flip.
k) Your sets hardly ever make full houses, ceratinly not as much as you will be beaten by a running dog four flush.
l) you move tables too often when big stack

At some point you ask yourself? I really would like to know if it is rigged!


This could happen to anybody, it is really happening to me. You run bad, it could mean anything. Still you just want to know the truth.

Look at it from an honest player perspective. If you conclude that the only REAL way of knowing is to DATA MINE thousands of tournaments, which is both frowned upon by the sites and not encouraged by the tracking software. Since you wish to continue playing on the site you follow their rules and guidelines and don't collect the data.

Meanwhile, the question must be asked, IF the sites are legitimate, then in most cases we should have no reason to doubt that they are sincere in their attempts to broker an honest game.

Then.... why don't the sites allow players to police their own games?

The ability to independently research the integrity of the games you play in as a player would seem necessary in todays poker environment. But for some unknown reason, players are not allowed access to hand histories in tournaments they have payed to enter. Nor are they allowed information on how tournaments unfolded in tournaments they don't play in directly.

In my opinion, this places the independently motivated player at a severe disadvantage to 3rd parties who quite possibly could be cheating other players and the sites.

If Internet poker is rigged its probably rigged because of a few potential possibilities like...

-Technical hacking of either the client software, your computer or internet routing etc
- Collusion
- Bots
- Inside employees being corrupt
- Time lag manipulation

If 3rd parties are RIGGING the game. The status quo is that it is currently almost impossible for honest players to police their own games without breaking site term and conditions. And yet it doesn't have to really be that way. So why do so many people put the onus on individual players to gather game data to prove that the games are not rigged, when it might be in everybodies interest to allow some transparency for game integrity! Especially for those players who pay to play in their own games.
As usual, this post was ignored due to the massive amount of truth, and in light of there being maybe one other real player in this whole thread. And yes, EVERYONE who has played online has had similar experiences.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1
So can I take it from this the sites do not allow you to monitor and record data from games where you are not playing? Because if this can be done it would provide a lot of information. This is what I was suggesting, keep data across the board on how the odds are running. Some are saying these new programmes can do this, but do sites not allow it? If not, are you allowed to monitor and keep data from games you are playing? If you are, at least this would provide key data on how you are personally running. If some players get different odds to others in certain situations it may highlight this.

Somewhere there is an answer. It involves me sitting on my arse while others do all the work, but some people make a career out of that. Can it be done?
You hit the answer right there. THAT is exactly how the software is rigged. Problem is HH's, whatever, will not show this. That is why these shills keep pushing that answer because it proves nothing.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 03:05 PM
Yes or no, do you specifically believe the claims that pimp guy's friend made about all ins where he was an 80% favorite?

I dare you to answer this specifically , and you still have yet to list who the shills are specifically and which sites they work for.

Come on, don't be afraid! Stop evading simple questions!!!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 03:07 PM
OK SHILLS, dispute this! Finally, imperical ****ing data to shut your mouths once and for all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfQBhbRiqnE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phkS5...eature=related
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
As usual, this post was ignored due to the massive amount of truth, and in light of there being maybe one other real player in this whole thread. And yes, EVERYONE who has played online has had similar experiences.





You hit the answer right there. THAT is exactly how the software is rigged. Problem is HH's, whatever, will not show this. That is why these shills keep pushing that answer because it proves nothing.
Yes this is why I am asking if these programmes can do specific things to look into what we normal poker players see. If a site is corrupt there is no way they are going to allow players to use programmes to collect data that can prove it. It is the sort of things talked about here that I have seen myself and normal poker players talk about both online and live. There was the 24082 member I referred to earlier, who posted the number of times he had run into AA when he had KK using a programme. It seems they can do this, which is still valuable, but we need to be able to find out more.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1
Yes this is why I am asking if these programmes can do specific things to look into what we normal poker players see. If a site is corrupt there is no way they are going to allow players to use programmes to collect data that can prove it. It is the sort of things talked about here that I have seen myself and normal poker players talk about both online and live. There was the 24082 member I referred to earlier, who posted the number of times he had run into AA when he had KK using a programme. It seems they can do this, which is still valuable, but we need to be able to find out more.
By reading some of your posts, it seems like you have some of this. COMMON SENSE, just use it!!!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1
Yes this is why I am asking if these programmes can do specific things to look into what we normal poker players see. If a site is corrupt there is no way they are going to allow players to use programmes to collect data that can prove it. It is the sort of things talked about here that I have seen myself and normal poker players talk about both online and live. There was the 24082 member I referred to earlier, who posted the number of times he had run into AA when he had KK using a programme. It seems they can do this, which is still valuable, but we need to be able to find out more.
They do every single thing you have asked about and more and an expert in the software can show you an analysis within 1 minute.

Does that make you feel any better?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseycjc
OK SHILLS, dispute this! Finally, imperical ****ing data to shut your mouths once and for all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfQBhbRiqnE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phkS5...eature=related

The funniest thing here, actually the saddest, is that people like you still believe they could make a living playing online. No matter what they see.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
The funniest thing here, actually the saddest, is that people like you still believe they could make a living playing online. No matter what they see.
What, did you think you were the only Dreamer out there?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
The funniest thing here, actually the saddest, is that people like you still believe they could make a living playing online. No matter what they see.
The funniest thing here, actually the saddest, is that people like you still believe without proof.

You are in the same kind of ppl who believe in this non-sense
US preacher warns end of the world is nigh: 21 May, around 6pm, to be precise
May 21, 2011 - Judgment Day, Rapture, End of World

So don't worry no more rigged games after May 21 2011

oops! oh wait since the majority of peoples will be sent to hell i'm wrong we will play rigged games for eternity!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
The comment in bold is a no brainer.
I'll have to agree with you on this one - it requires not much in the way of brains to throw out such an accusation, and even less to blindly believe it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pimppoker
To take anything thats written, edit it out of context (u call this intermingling) in such a way as to change its original meaning.
Again, your posts were not edited in any way. Merging them into another thread has done nothing to change their context or meaning. I've explained to you already why it was done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1
I am saddened at what has happened to the once fine name of 2+2. I have seen comments from live players and on other forums about how 2+2 is run by poker sites and shills. If this is true, it is the antithesis of the original idea of 2+2 which was to inform for the love of the game.
Have you analyzed these comments and given them any thought? If you think they have some basis in fact, I'd be curious as to why that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1
In my mind 2+2 now stands for deception rather than enlightenment.
Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquirrel1
I bought many Sklansky/Malmuth books years ago which I read thoroughly many times, but I would not buy anything from 2+2 again.
This makes even less sense to me. Are their books are less enjoyable or do they have less value now? Serious question, as are my previous ones in this post.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 04:24 PM
all the shills pls ignore me and ill ignore u ok?
to all the real poker players: have seen lately a lot of weard hands like kk vs qq kind of hands? its realy feels like they try to make us put our money their. i think that online poker is rigged for one good reason: they hide themself and dont let anyone to check theire software. why is that? what do they have to hide?
and again i dont want any reply from those ppl that sure that online poker is fair because they are the most stupid lifeless persons on the world. oh, and guess what? the world is not flatt.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 04:29 PM
Bobo, two days in a row; it's tough to detox once you get hooked!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 04:35 PM
Oh I know, I've been here many times before. I know there's no hope of real conversation with blatantlyrigged, just like there wasn't with his previous account, TheTruth5. And it appears that pimppoker is convinced he's been done an immense disservice by having his thread merged where it belongs, and nothing will convince him otherwise. But I am sincerely interested in hearing TheSquirrel1's answers.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWWWWWHAT?OOOOO K
all the shills pls ignore me and ill ignore u ok?
to all the real poker players: have seen lately a lot of weard hands like kk vs qq kind of hands? its realy feels like they try to make us put our money their. i think that online poker is rigged for one good reason: they hide themself and dont let anyone to check theire software. why is that? what do they have to hide?
and again i dont want any reply from those ppl that sure that online poker is fair because they are the most stupid lifeless persons on the world. oh, and guess what? the world is not flatt.

Some Rigtards had a facism mind if ppl don't agree with them we are the enemy so we become all shills
If you want only the riggies posting try to start a new forum and banned everyone who argue with you.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
05-17-2011 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
Oh I know, I've been here many times before. I know there's no hope of real conversation with blatantlyrigged, just like there wasn't with his previous account, TheTruth5. And it appears that pimppoker is convinced he's been done an immense disservice by having his thread merged where it belongs, and nothing will convince him otherwise. But I am sincerely interested in hearing TheSquirrel1's answers.


I see he's online, maybe I distracted him with Magic's vids (One can only hope)
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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