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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,444 34.94%
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Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:42 AM   #3276
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
My recent posts aren't about proving online poker is rigged. So in Mark's defense, I apologized and explained to him that most of what I post maybe true(or false), that I am simply responding and reacting to irrational logic and tactics by some users.
Your reaction to anyone who answers any of your questions with clear logic or arguments based on probability maths is to call them a shill.

That alone marks you out as a fool and a dishonest disputant.
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Old 05-14-2009, 11:50 AM   #3277
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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And if any kind of cheating takes place by players or companys' then they're held accountable...No harm no foul right?
If someone where to right checks to a company and they don't have enough money to cover those checks, would it be considered cheating the company if they don't pay them what they owe? Should they be held accountable?
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:24 PM   #3278
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Dude get over the echeck thing. But who else has stepped up to oversee online poker other then the gov.? You show me some alternatives....It's already being done. Those of you that say it's not going to happen...it already has happened....you just don't know it....try reading between the lines....
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:26 PM   #3279
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Bat I never "right" checks....I usually write them... i've Written them before...One time I Wrote a check...
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:29 PM   #3280
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Here's a link to a thread under Legislation here...that will direct you to another link that will answer your questions.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...62/index2.html
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:30 PM   #3281
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Dude get over the echeck thing.
Why should we get over you not only admitting that you were dishonest but actually having so little grasp of societal norms with respect to honourable conduct that you thought you could come on here and admit it and expect people not to use it to inform their opinion of you in perpetuity.

This is not something that will go away.

Even those who hadn't noticed you utterly dishonest approach to your campaign to persuade everyone that regulation was a good thing now know that you are a thieving little scumbag who doesn't even understand what people will think of his antics.

Oh, and you still haven't told us how much RealDeal are paying you to shill for them.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:31 PM   #3282
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Bat I never "right" checks....I usually write them... i've Written them before...One time I Wrote a check...
The important point is: Do you ever honour them?

Or do you just bounce them until RealDeal sends you your pay for being their shill?
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:35 PM   #3283
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Dude get over the echeck thing. But who else has stepped up to oversee online poker other then the gov.? You show me some alternatives....It's already being done. Those of you that say it's not going to happen...it already has happened....you just don't know it....try reading between the lines....
Government involvement does nothing to ease the minds of those that wish to believe it is rigged. Many sites are publicly traded and sanctioned regulated and taxed, but that does nothing to stop people from thinking "rigged."

Look at Will Hill. Betting booths everywhere in England, heavily regulated and taxed. Sit at their tables and you will see as many and as crazed rigged beliefs as anywhere else.

Most of the large sites are either publicly traded or audited independently. Has that made a dent in rigged beliefs?

However, to play along for the fun of it, what do you think is needed to make at least you start to believe the games are legitimate. Be detailed and list what types of general regulation are needed (ie: by whom and regarding what).

Be very specific. Stop being vague and mysteriously reading "between the lines" and deal with this topic directly and clearly.

Good luck.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:45 PM   #3284
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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However, to play along for the fun of it, what do you think is needed to make at least you start to believe the games are legitimate. Be detailed and list what types of general regulation are needed (ie: by whom and regarding what).
I think it's very clear that tk1133's agenda is very simple.

He wants US government regulation of poker sites.

I also very much doubt that he gives a hoot about poker players.

He obviously believes that he has some way of making money if the US government does try to regulate on line poker (which they won't for reasons that have been explained many times before).

Perhaps he's worried that when RealDeal go out of business he will lose the income he gets for acting as a shill for them?
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:48 PM   #3285
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Perhaps he's worried that when RealDeal go out of business he will lose the income he gets for acting as a shill for them?
that implies they were in business at some point.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:55 PM   #3286
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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that implies they were in business at some point.
Oooops! My mistake.

So they must be paying him with money from the (failed) venture capitalists.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:59 PM   #3287
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

^^^^^^^
sounds like shill talk to me!
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:12 PM   #3288
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I couldn't agree with you more. But here's my point. I've written to other mods. even Sklansky himself. A lot of the arguements I post, aren't neccessarily my views or opinions. It's how it's sited as the impossible. That every single poker site would not or could not cheat or let other players cheat on their sites.
Almost nobody here has ever said it was impossible. As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure no one ever has, but I can't say that with 100% certainty.

You've let yourself get so wound up by the "shills" that you've convinced yourself that they think this. I think you'll find they just want some evidence before they believe any particular site has a problem. Is that so unreasonable?

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Bat I never "right" checks....I usually write them... i've Written them before...One time I Wrote a check...
Are you actually going to nit at someone's choice of one word? Really? You?

Oh, and seeing as you've once again sidestepped the issue of any proof of posters here being paid to post, you don't have any? Are you then planning on withdrawing your unfounded accusations?
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:20 PM   #3289
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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I think it's very clear that tk1133's agenda is very simple.

He wants US government regulation of poker sites.
Eh, OK. Strange agenda as it will do nothing with regard to whether people believe the games are rigged or not. Think the poker sites themselves would love this policy change as well.

Perhaps I will use the same approach on a more hard core riggedologist (rigtard seems a bit unfair a term as it insults those who are genuinely mentally handicapped).

I will simply ask them what they specifically need to have done and be shown to make them comfortable that all of their conspiracy beliefs and rigged theories are invalid. Since they know the hidden truth, I have to assume they would know what steps need be taken to purge the world of all the evils that cause these hidden truths to exist.

If tk is only about better regulation of this industry, then I actually agree with that. More regulation would remove a lot of the gray, hazy areas of the industry (not the silly rigged stuff, more the banking and player restriction stuff), and make the industry more healthy, stable and competitive.



Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
I also very much doubt that he gives a hoot about poker players.
Why does this matter?


Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
He obviously believes that he has some way of making money if the US government does try to regulate on line poker (which they won't for reasons that have been explained many times before).
Kind of getting into the strange conspiracy area here, and frankly his methods of "making money" have not really been demonstrated as clever thusfar. Not sure why this is a concern even if it it true.


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Perhaps he's worried that when RealDeal go out of business he will lose the income he gets for acting as a shill for them?
The reverse the roles "no you are a shill" routine was funny the first time. Clever the second time. Got a heh from me the third time. The 20th time? Well...
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:28 PM   #3290
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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The reverse the roles "no you are a shill" routine was funny the first time. Clever the second time. Got a heh from me the third time. The 20th time? Well...
True, but I don't blame him for continuing until tk either provides some proof of his "shill" allegation or retracts it.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:29 PM   #3291
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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The reverse the roles "no you are a shill" routine was funny the first time. Clever the second time. Got a heh from me the third time. The 20th time? Well...
Still funny imo
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:45 PM   #3292
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Dude get over the echeck thing.
I cant it's just to funny. The self appointed champion of honesty in online gambling is a scammer.

Quote:
But who else has stepped up to oversee online poker other then the gov.? You show me some alternatives....
The lightly regulated free market system before uigea was pretty good. U.S. regulation might be better or worse then the status quo I don't know and I highly doubt you do.

Quote:
It's already being done. Those of you that say it's not going to happen...it already has happened....you just don't know it....try reading between the lines....
You know nothing that cant be learned in the legislation forum or at least you have never posted any info that isn't know there. Quit implying your an insider until you post something from the inside.

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Bat I never "right" checks....I usually write them... i've Written them before...One time I Wrote a check...
If you want to correct my grammar, spelling and proof read my posts I could use the help, what hours are you available.

Last edited by batair; 05-14-2009 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:54 PM   #3293
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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True, but I don't blame him for continuing until tk either provides some proof of his "shill" allegation or retracts it.
How about if we all stipulate that tk will never "get it" no matter how big and blatant and simple the reverse the roll routine and move on.


Then again a simple reply of "U tink me shill, me tink U shill" may generate a chuckle...
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Old 05-14-2009, 01:57 PM   #3294
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Kind of getting into the strange conspiracy area here, and frankly his methods of "making money" have not really been demonstrated as clever thusfar. Not sure why this is a concern even if it it true.
You cannot fail to have noticed that the entire focus of his activity is to persuade us that regulation is (a) a wonderful thing and (b) about to happen.

The riggedness of the casinos is entirely peripheral to his main thrust.

The sort of people who behave in that way are rather simple and usually dishonest. Their methodology is partly to say anything that will further their cause irrespective of its factual accuracy and partly wishful thinking.

He actually believes if he can convince people that regulation is coming that will make it happen. This is a very childlike way of thinking.

Quote:
The reverse the roles "no you are a shill" routine was funny the first time. Clever the second time. Got a heh from me the third time. The 20th time? Well...
Then I suggest you put me on ignore for the time being.

You seemed perfectly well able to put up with tk1133 and supperdish hurling accusations of shilling for some months so why you suddenly feel the need to comment on it is a bit of a mystery.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:09 PM   #3295
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Bat I never "right" checks....I usually write them... i've Written them before...One time I Wrote a check...
Now I've seen everything.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:19 PM   #3296
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Now I've seen everything.
Hmmm, two things I ain't never seen:

I never seen a elephant fly.

I never seen tk1133 post sense.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:35 PM   #3297
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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He wants US government regulation of poker sites.
I'm curious how that would be different from the countries already regulating online poker, including UK, Ireland, Italy, Australia, and the UK properties Isle of Man, Alderney, and Gibralter, and a number of other EU members.

Do you think the poker sites run a different game for US players than they do for players in those countries?
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:35 PM   #3298
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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You cannot fail to have noticed that the entire focus of his activity is to persuade us that regulation is (a) a wonderful thing and (b) about to happen.

The riggedness of the casinos is entirely peripheral to his main thrust.

The sort of people who behave in that way are rather simple and usually dishonest. Their methodology is partly to say anything that will further their cause irrespective of its factual accuracy and partly wishful thinking.

He actually believes if he can convince people that regulation is coming that will make it happen. This is a very childlike way of thinking.

Truth be told, I never spent that much time trying to analyze tk. Low IQ riggedologist label is pretty much as deep as it went in my eyes. If I missed some of the intricate subtleties of "tk the man" then so be it.



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Then I suggest you put me on ignore for the time being.

You seemed perfectly well able to put up with tk1133 and supperdish hurling accusations of shilling for some months so why you suddenly feel the need to comment on it is a bit of a mystery.
I generally do not worry about what people who do not matter say about me. If they want to call me a shill, a lizard person or whatever makes them happy then good for them. If I did then I would get caught in endless "oh yeah/yeah" debates with them on pointless matters like whether I am a lizard person or not (no comment on that by the way).

You seem to enjoy that exercise and that's fine. Keep at it.


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I'm curious how that would be different from the countries already regulating online poker, including UK, Ireland, Italy, and the UK properties Isle of Man, Alderney, and Gibralter, and a number of other EU members.

Do you think the poker sites run a different game for US players than they do for players in those countries?
Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that also. Kind of creates the image that some view the world map as USA and the rest as "unknown 3rd world countries run by evil warlords."

I would like to add that the warlords in Canada are generally polite.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:44 PM   #3299
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Yeah, I was kind of wondering about that also. Kind of creates the image that some view the world map as USA and the rest as "unknown 3rd world countries run by evil warlords."

I would like to add that the warlords in Canada are generally polite.
Unfortunately I think that's true (that a lot of people have that sort of viewpoint, not that I do).

But if you focus too much on that, then you might forget all the important reasons that it needs more regulation (at least from the U.S.' point of view). We all know the KGC is a bull**** organization. And if someone gets cheated or even worse, hacked, then the way the system is in place now, the victim usually just ends up being screwed. Obviously there are more reasons too, these just came to mind first.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:53 PM   #3300
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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But if you focus too much on that, then you might forget all the important reasons that it needs more regulation (at least from the U.S.' point of view). We all know the KGC is a bull**** organization.
While I agree with that, I also know that the largest site affiliated with KGC is Full Tilt, and the primary regulator of Full Tilt is actually the Government of Alderney, a UK state, and not the KGC. Full Tilt shows Alderney as the governing jurisdiction in their T&C (end user agreement) not the KGC. The Full Tilt operating company is Filco Ltd, licensed in Alderney, and that state has pretty strict regulation that isn't just a cozy relationship like the KGC.

As for all the other 2-bit sites listed by the KGC, I can do without them and I agree with your sentiment.

And Poker Stars has no relationship whatsoever with KGC.

So unless you are playing UB or AP, KGC isn't an issue to be concerned with. I think it's a misconception that U.S. players are relying on this token agency to protect them and therefore aren't protected. Most U.S. players aren't on a KGC site.

Some people confuse the MIT hosting company with the KGC too. Having servers at MIT (in Kahnawakee) doesn't mean KGC is the regulator.

Last edited by spadebidder; 05-14-2009 at 02:58 PM.
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