I find it humorous that you can't seem to distinguish between the randomness of a manual deal performed right before your eyes and a computer-generated deal created on a computer server half a world away.

Sure, I've heard many boors belittling a dealer in the casino for "screwing" them when they suffered a bad beat for a pot they considered to be their God-given right to claim for themselves. I've seen it in blackjack, poker, and any of the various carnival games offered in the casino. Such behavior is childish, ridiculous, and without a basis in arguable fact. Their contention of a "rigged" game is ridiculous.
However, there is a big difference between cards dealt out of a shoe or randomly shuffled deck and those given to you by a computer that serves to generate a profit for its operator. I find it very telling that over a third of the responses to the survey presented at the beginning of this thread consider online poker to indeed be "manipulated", at the very least. Sometimes perception is reality, my friend, and if you deny that universal truth then we have nothing else to discuss.
The very fact that more than 1/3 of the players surveyed on an online poker forum consider it to be a very real possibility that the online game might be manipulated is BAD for the game!
Why do you suppose that the average $2-$5 player in casinos plays for stakes of 25 or 50 cents online? I know. I know. We've all heard it 100,000 times. More hands are dealt per hour than in the live game. However, a player who considers himself to be an "advantage" player in brick and mortar casinos due to the fact that he is a winner over time at those stakes should likewise be an even greater advantage if he can now see more hands per hour.....shouldn't he? I know. I know. Again we've all heard it before that the reason he must play for the smaller stakes is that the level of play is much higher at similar stakes online. Again, why would that be so????
It appears to be self evident to me that the average>>>>winning<<<<brick and mortar player feels that he is disadvantaged online due to the fact that he is playing not only his cards, position, stack size, and opponent in the online game, but that he must add the fifth dimension of playing against the site to his decisions in online play.
As far as the "racism" of being mistrustful of the legitimacy of a game dealt by a server from an unregulated offshore site to a player in the United States........I guess I must plead guilty as charged. I'm not sure which "race" I am prejudiced against so much as the "prejudice" of mistrusting the integrity of an unregulated game.

I just want to see how much longer this thread lasts. I always thought it was mostly American players making the stupid claims. I wonder if the complaints will keep coming (now that the major 3 are down in the US).

You did business with an illegal organization. If you played in an illegal underground card room that money isn't yours. It's seized if there is a raid. As for punching me hey I am 6 foot 2 and 240. Not fat either. Give it your best shot pal.

I'm 6'1, 210 and am overweight... U must be sick buff to have 1 inch but 30lbs on me.
Whatever makes you feel better kid.

@Stu+stu: This site is made up of mostly Americans, of course they would be the majority.
Go to a french forum and you fill find people saying their (regulated 100% legal) poker sites are rigged..

Better yet, go to a casino. You will hear the same thing. BJ machine shufflers, video poker, slots, ect.. They are all rigged according to the masses..

Do you even understand what a hypocrite you are? Not quite sure how I degraded you,other than to point out you sound,and write as if your education ended around the time you were fitted for long pants. But you go on to say that anyone who actually wins at poker isn't qualified for anything but a job at their local mall. Having a high i.q. is a trait common to successful people, and certainly all but compulsory in the online poker world. You go on figuratively dancing on peoples graves if it makes you happy,i'm done with your nonsense,and sorry I ever responded to it.

More smoke and mirrors from you and the others.

Bottom line, there is plenty more reason to believe that more illegal activity has been going on at Stars and FT. They knew that they were breaking U.S. law and still did it anyway. To be fair, we all took part in this and understood the risks. This is not my point though, my point is that we can and should be more suspicious than ever. That is all I am saying.

I sincerely feel for the players who got caught up in this. I was sitting next to a guy at the Palomar Club playing NL cash game today who has almost $400k stuck on the sites. Another player had $65k stuck and couldn't pay his taxes on time. The DOJ and our government do have some real douche bags who been given too much power. There are also some good people trying to help turn things around. Things do need to change in this country and fast, but that has nothing to do with how the sites decided to deal with a problem. Now we have caught more of a glimpse of the possibilities.

wrong

wrong

wrong

wrong

I am with you on this. It is a real 120lb Douche bag move to be pissing and ****ting on peoples online poker graves. These are real people with families to take care of and bills piling up. In the work I do, I talk to people in these kinds of situations and help them look at their options to move through financial and personal disaster. This is some really serious **** happening in peoples lives and should not be wielded as an opportunity to take a cheap shot.

Again, I wish all of you the best getting through this crisis. You did not deserve for any of this to happen. We can blame our government and the sites for what has happened. All of this could have been avoided if steps were taken years ago. Greed has no humanity though...

No I didn't say people that win at poker are stupid but ones that engage in illegal activity and wonder they have lost their principal surely need some IQ checking for sure. It's borderline insane.

tell me what you think . Late in tourney 1.5 mil. in chips bb has same I raise huge in position with ak suited he shoves all-in with ten four off and wins ????????????
I`m out like eleventh place. how does someone do that unless they know they are gonna win.. O yeah I check back the next day he won the thing.. 1600.00
I go to bed with 100.00 bucks

Highly suspicious. Can you post the hand history on that after running it through the hand converter?

Thanks!

At least he shoved with 10,4 os instead of calling. He made a play and (presumably) got lucky. Once you called you were only about an 8:5 favorite.

Ya, there may be a ton of fold equity there with that move depending upon how big you raised. He is live if he gets called.

Ding Dong the witch is dead,the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead

You simply do not commit assault unless you are bitter, angry and resentful! If you are that discouraged please fill free to refrain from this thread. I assure you 2+2 does not endorse violence or threats on their forum but wait they do allow you to degrade and insult posters with profanity and degrading remarks maybe it is allowed

"Come Out, Come Out, Wherever You Are" Isai Scheinberg and Raymond Ray Bitar

Everything that happened in the last 24 hours had nothing to do with players themselves.
What an odd, odd little circlejerk you have going for yourself.

Otatop
players should of been aware of the US legislation on payment procceses if all the crap that was happening before this was not a warnning and sites should of made players aware they were breaking the law by depositing and any serious player who did not know this is pure dumb.
Give it up shill your morals match your masters.

You are misinformed. It's well understood and accepted by most legal authorities that the only players breaking any law are those playing in a state that has a state law specifically outlawing playing online poker. I think this applies in about 5 states, and it's explicitly ignored/unenforced in all but 1 state. The recent actions are not about players breaking any laws, and no such claims have been made by the DOJ. There is no federal law that prohibits players depositing funds or playing online poker.

For what the DOJ charges are about and the outlook for withdrawing player funds, you should read the legislation threads, rather than post nonsense here and validate your handle.

suggest you look up the legislation on the payment processors and the legality.
man these shills just wont die.
You are not in my state dumbass contradict yourself much.
Nonsense thats why 3 major poker sites are now closed to US players and charges are filled you sir are a johnson.

Are you referring to the shill/site employee circle jerk?

AGREED