Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,508 34.88%
No
5,615 55.84%
Undecided
933 9.28%

04-08-2011 , 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
EVERYONE else? I have cashed out numerous times. I still win:


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=31186
Youre probably not in the U.S., and if you are, SOME people have to be programmed to win consistently, otherwise the manipulation would be way to obvious, even for the dreamers. Just like the guy with the huge post points out.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133

Still don't get it do you?

No matter what you say, post, or think about online poker, there is nothing you can or will do about it.
So come on over to the rigged thread with the General and put forth hours into your posts that translate to what I post....

In other words, all of you "online poker saviors" do nothing but whine and complain. You're all talk. Bunch of weekend warriors with no ambition. I bet most of you as children, some adults, cried when you dropped your ice cream cones and believed that it was an emotional display of disapointment that got your ice cream replaced. In reality, it was the person with the money that got you another cone. The one that took action, the one who was capable.

I'm not sure what the issue is. Maybe for some of you:
-Nobody liked you, so no one ever bought you an ice cream cone to drop.
a.)Amounts to a modern Holden Caulfield
b.)often lashes out about life being unfair.
c.)These people are usually multi-accounters
d.)Constantly bounces E-check deposits.


-Maybe you grew up poor, food stamps wouldn't cover Ice Cream sold in the projects, so if you dropped it, you were SOL.
a.)these people usually practice proper bankroll management.
b.)instead of blaming the ice cream store(Poker site) they blame the Government for not adding Dairy Queen to their options, everybody is out to get them.
c.)These people are usually multi-accounters
d.)Constantly bounces E-check deposits.

Either way, its pathetic and nobody cares. Talk is cheap. We want to hear about action.

So lets get back on topic.

Continue crying and playing your violins, at the end of the day, you did nothing and do nothing. Nobody will ever read/review this thread. So like the saying goes, if a tree falls in the woods, and nobody's there to hear it, did it make a sound?
So A+ for all the hard work the "rigtards" have put forth in foiling Stiverson's dirty online poker deeds. You guys sent the Super Users and Rogue Employees running for cover. Online Poker-land is now peaceful and glorious because of each and everyone of you!

I will continue to do something worth while:
Expose the Reptilian Humanoids and their online poker ventures.

And all of you will still be spineless, ball-less, Johnny-Come-Lately's and Johnny-Do-Nothings...
Oh whine and complain yet he takes a 1/2 page on this threadThis is exactly what happens when you are a deadbeat father and have to spew your hate on a thread and blame the world that your wife left you for a better man. Oh is this defamation of a 2+2 shill if so sue me
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Summary of Tk1133's post:

I got some ice cream, I got some ice cream. And you ain't got none. Your dad's on welfare. Your dad's on welfare.
Better to be on welfare than watch your own mother turn tricks in the back seat for your ice cream
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Youre probably not in the U.S., and if you are, SOME people have to be programmed to win consistently, otherwise the manipulation would be way to obvious, even for the dreamers. Just like the guy with the huge post points out.
You see you know how to exploited this rigged deal come to Canada(Country populated with nice consistent winning weirdos) and play poker you will be a consistent winner too. And from now on, all Pro in any poker site will come from Canada. Bouya!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Youre probably not in the U.S., and if you are, SOME people have to be programmed to win consistently, otherwise the manipulation would be way to obvious, even for the dreamers. Just like the guy with the huge post points out.
I'm programmed to win consistently.

u mad?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
lol @ you beating your own horn for about the 10th time.....brag much?....We read other 9 posts about winning but u want u can keep posting about it, it may change!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFuego20
I'm programmed to win consistently.

u mad?
No. You are the exception. MAYBE. If you really live in Cleveland you are probably full of **** though. Unless you won years ago.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 09:42 PM
i dont win anymore cuz donks keep getting straights when they play me and i won years ago and this proofs it is rigged like you say
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrymander
i dont win anymore cuz donks keep getting straights when they play me and i won years ago and this proofs it is rigged like you say
ok WIKI, please go now.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
No. You are the exception. MAYBE. If you really live in Cleveland you are probably full of **** though. Unless you won years ago.
lol, don't even know where to begin at understanding your thought processes. Of course I live in Cleveland. Why would I lie about that? There are dozens of people on 2+2 alone who can confirm such a simple thing as that. Are you saying Clevelanders are too dumb to win or something? Or is it simply that Americans can't win?

Also one of the graphs I posted was by date and plenty of my winnings are recent. Yes the games are tougher now than ever before, and yes the winrates of most players, including mine are far less than they once were back in the glory days of Party Poker. There's a direct correlation between the average VPIP per player back then vs now that can explain that. It's not rocket science.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Youre probably not in the U.S., and if you are, SOME people have to be programmed to win consistently, otherwise the manipulation would be way to obvious, even for the dreamers. Just like the guy with the huge post points out.
I do live in the U.S.

So you are saying that both poker sites that I play on decided to rig their games to make me win? I'm not sure why they like me so much, but I sure am pretty lucky.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-08-2011 , 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker15801
lol @ you beating your own horn for about the 10th time.....brag much?....We read other 9 posts about winning but u want u can keep posting about it, it may change!
Seems relevant every time someone says that poker sites are rigged so people can't win.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlinepokerisascam
Oh whine and complain yet he takes a 1/2 page on this threadThis is exactly what happens when you are a deadbeat father and have to spew your hate on a thread and blame the world that your wife left you for a better man. Oh is this defamation of a 2+2 shill if so sue me
First of all, my wife left me for a Lizard Person. Second, I got 8 mouths to feed....

I only missed 2 payments, I'm not a dead beat dad!

So who are you blaming for your bad beats? What is the Holden Caulfield theory of the night?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
ok WIKI, please go now.
Wow Wow Wubbzy Wubbzy Goes Green
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
Noticed something interesting today watching the new CR video from zachjackdad.

In the vid he has a boatload of MTT's up and running, gets sucked out on in one and just quietly shuts the window down and moves to another one without even mentioning the suckout.

Compare that to a video from Magicwhatever and it shows the very real difference in mindset between ******s and people that understand variance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeflonDawg
I have a strong feeling the average IQ level of the rigtards is orders of magnitude lower than the average "shill".
I mean, just take a look at the posting style and comprehension skills of the "******s" vs. the "people who understand variance". It's pretty obvious who's intellectually deficient and who isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banonlinepoker
AQ vs A10.

I call out 10 in the window! Yep. Isn't online poker grand? Sad. So very sad.
And again I ask:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeflonDawg
You constantly rant about how a poker site is rigged against you, screwing you out of your hard-earned money, yet you still continue to play in said rigged against you game?

How is this not the height of stupidity?
If you truly believe the game is rigged against you as you constantly claim ITT, why are you still playing? Do you think the money is going to magically come back to you?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 03:34 AM
More interesting Full Tilt stats. Excluding flopped monsters, the odds of an A flopping when you have KK is roughly 20.67%. In real games this figure is actually going to be somewhat lower due to the fact that your opponents have an ace in their hand disproportionately frequently given that they voluntarily put money in the pot. So we're looking at an actual percentage of somewhere around 19-20%.

In my last 100k hands I have seen a flop with KK 216 times. An ace has flopped 58 times, or 26.85% of the time. Joke of a sample size, right? Well if we assume the deal on FTP is fair and we give an conservative 20% probability of the A flopping, the chances of this happening at least this often by pure chance are p = .0091. In other words about 99.1% unlikely.

I am a professional player and I am trying my hardest to believe in the integrity of the sites but so many of my statistics on Full Tilt for the past ~10 months have just been so far off expectation its frankly starting to give me the chills.

If we take my W$WSF as a rough indicator of approximately how often villain had an ace in his hand (given I will typically win the pot otherwise as I almost always have the preflop initiative with KK) things get even weirder. My W$WSF in that situation is 56.9%, marginally above my normal W$WSF of ~48. That's just creepy since that means not only is the ace flopping ridiculously often, but villain also has an ace in his hand rather often?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Only difference I see would be U.S. players wouldnt be completely shut down in regards to making any type of profit, as these sites, with the regulations, really dont want to be cashing out to U.S. players. I did pretty good before it was made illegal.
Only time after that I made a few thousand dollars and cashed out a few times was when the cake network started up. Then of course the profits and cash-outs did me in, as with EVERYONE else
.
Oh really? So when I said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Then you go from site to site creating new accounts, increasing stakes and making an absolute fortune running like god on every one.

Or you would do if you weren't braindead.
Why did you say this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Yes, ive done this and it works. Only problem is you run out of sites and usernames, Mr. braindead himself.
So either:

a) You were completely lying as usual like the pathetic little donk you are or
b) You did it at a time before you are now claiming the "new player" rigging began, making it totally irrelvant and intentionally misleading.

Now you could either prove me wrong by posting some data and making me look stupid, ignore me, or ramble on with more lies. What seems like the best option to you?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
More interesting Full Tilt stats. Excluding flopped monsters,
What are you excluding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
the odds of an A flopping when you have KK is roughly 20.67%.
I don't know what you're excluding but isnt it 100*(1 - ((46/50)*(45/49)*(44/48))) = 22.55% ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
In my last 100k hands I have seen a flop with KK 216 times. An ace has flopped 58 times, or 26.85% of the time.
Last 100k hands?
Are you excluding hands before this? If so, why?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
Joke of a sample size, right? Well if we assume the deal on FTP is fair and we give an conservative 20% probability of the A flopping, the chances of this happening at least this often by pure chance are p = .0091. In other words about 99.1% unlikely.
Is your A flop percentage right or is mine?
If it's mine, how does this affect this percentage?
How statistically relevant is this percentage if you have cherry picked your last 100k hands?
As I understand it, sample size isnt necessarily a joke as it is taken into account in standard deviation calcs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
If we take my W$WSF as a rough indicator of approximately how often villain had an ace in his hand (given I will typically win the pot otherwise as I almost always have the preflop initiative with KK) things get even weirder. My W$WSF in that situation is 56.9%, marginally above my normal W$WSF of ~48. That's just creepy since that means not only is the ace flopping ridiculously often, but villain also has an ace in his hand rather often?
I'm no statistician but I'm pretty sure your assumptions and thought processes here are completely wrong. I am surprised a professional player could look at this situation so simply but then I am not one so I wouldn't know.

Last edited by Bingo_Boy; 04-09-2011 at 04:47 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
1. What are you excluding?



2. I don't know what you're excluding but isnt it 100*(1 - ((46/50)*(45/49)*(44/48))) = 22.55% ?



3. Last 100k hands? Are you excluding hands before this? If so, why?




4. Is your A flop percentage right or is mine? If it's mine, how does this affect this percentage?

5. How statistically relevant is this percentage if you have cherry picked your last 100k hands?

6. As I understand it, sample size isnt necessarily a joke as it is taken into account in standard deviation calcs

7. I'm no statistician but I'm pretty sure you assumptions and thought processes here are completely wrong. I am surprised a professional player could look at this situation so simply but then I am not one so I wouldn't know.
Great questions.

1) I am excluding flops where I flop a full house/quads for I think obvious reasons.

2) So no, my math is correct.

3) Last 100k is the standard sample I use since it is typically sufficient to generate statistical significance and the database queries on my end are reasonably quick to execute still.

4) Once again, my math is correct.

5) Completely. Assuming a sufficient sample size any grouping within a sample can also be examined for fairness. For instance, my stats against opponents whose names start with "D", or those whose accounts were created within the past 3 months, should also be fair assuming a sufficient sample size. In this case there is a sufficient sample size.

6) I believe you may have misunderstood my comment as we agree here. I was suggesting that the standard response would be "lol sample size." However, in this case the sample size is actually sufficient to draw statistically significant conclusions.

7) This was more of an aside than a actual 'fact' since it is primarily based on one assumption which would be incredibly difficult to prove. So it can be argued to be speculative/contingent wherese the other points cannot. As such I'll include my response in a spoiler and will not bring up this point again:

****As I was writing the text below in spoiler I realized something that can give much more weight to my hypothesis in this case. I still will not focus on this as a primary point, but things just got way more interesting.

Spoiler:
Well fortunately for you I do have a degree in mathematics and am also a professional player so I can help you out! My approximation was of course, just that - an approximation. However, most people, fish and regular alike, tend to act more honestly on Axx flops than other flops. Given the assumption (and this is the one that can obviously be rationally debated which is why I am not interested in defending this point) that I am a skilled player and somewhat infrequently being bluffed off the best hand on Axx boards and similarly infrequently bluffing people off better on Axx boards then my W$WSF should correspond ROUGHLY with the frequency of which I had the best hand.

Here you can use a utility like pokerstove. You may not be aware of it, but pokerstove can perform calculations even with one flop card, or in this case an ace. Against a 20% range KK has 61.2% equity on Axx flops, 63.5% against a 30% range, and steadily increasing onward as the range of villain widens.

There are also more interesting issues here. The big one is that this is our 'run down' equity, or equity given all 5 cards. Villains are very unlikely to be able to see all 5 cards most often. I mean any undercards on an A72 rainbow will have around 3-5% equity against KK but will almost always fold so their effective equity is not realized meaning KK's actual effective equity is even greater. I hope this is clear since its somewhat challenging to explain well.

When you add it up 56.9% W$WSF means I'm being bluffed a ton or people are actually outflopping me massively more often than they should be. The unfortunate nature of poker as a player and the incomplete information we have means this is ultimately unprovable either way.

ACTUALLY AS I TYPE THIS THERE IS A SIMPLE MATHEMATICAL MODEL I CAN CREATE TO TEST THIS THEORY. The frequency of an ace on the turn should indicate beyond a doubt roughly how often villain flopped an ace. If villain does not have an ace in his hand then the odds of an ace on the turn are 4/(52-4 (our hole cards) - 3 (the flop)) if he does then the odds are 3/(52-4-3). A surprisingly huge difference of 6.666 vs 8.888 meaning we should be able to again reach statistical significance even with smallish samples! So assuming the turn is dealt fairly, an A on the turn of 6.666 would indicate villain saw the turn with an A 100% of the time, and 8.888% would mean he never had an ace on the flop. Thus we can approximate how often he had an ace in his hand to see the turn, given the frequency of an ace on the turn.

Oooo. I am anxious to run this!

Last edited by Do it Right; 04-09-2011 at 05:40 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
More interesting Full Tilt stats. Excluding flopped monsters, the odds of an A flopping when you have KK is roughly 20.67%
Excluding nothing, it's 22.5%.

If you want to factor in that your opponent's holecards are not random, then you could assume that the distribution of cards you see a flop with is the same as your opponents distribution.

Quote:
1) I am excluding flops where I flop a full house/quads for I think obvious reasons.
Definitely not obvious to me, it seems like blatant cherry picking. And in any case, if you exclude flops where you flop Kings full or Quads, the 'other flops' contain an increased proportion of Aces (since they contain a lesser proportion of Kings). This is so obvious that don't even need to do a calculation to be sure your 20.67% figure is wrong.

Another easy way to see that it is wrong is to reason 'I flop quads or a full house' when I hold almost exactly 1% of the time, so that is the largest effect that removing these hands can have on the proportion of Aces that flop.

Care to show your working, I have a maths degree as well so should be able to follow it.

Quote:
If we take my W$WSF as a rough indicator of approximately how often villain had an ace in his hand (given I will typically win the pot otherwise as I almost always have the preflop initiative with KK) things get even weirder. My W$WSF in that situation is 56.9%, marginally above my normal W$WSF of ~48. That's just creepy since that means not only is the ace flopping ridiculously often, but villain also has an ace in his hand rather often?
This is a horrible guessy way of doing statistics. You might lose to a set, or a flopped flush draw that comes in, or a straight draw, or your opponent might bluff you off your KK, and certainly he will bluff you off KK more often than you will bluff him off Ax in the reverse situation, which increases the win percentage of your opponent's hand. And in any case it is too contingent on how you play your hands.

Last edited by Pyromantha; 04-09-2011 at 06:19 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 06:20 AM
And once again the statistics make no sense whatsoever. In this case I chose a sample of 7 months exclusively to get a reasonable sample size. I am testing a model I mentioned in the spoiler to my last post. Particularly, I am curious on Axx boards when I have KK how often my opponent has an Ax. Here is my math:

If I have KK and villain has Ax (where x is not an A) then we 'know' 4 hole cards as well as the three flop cards. So the odds of an ace on the turn are 3/(52-4-3) = 6.666%. If villain does not have an ace in his hand then we again 'know' 4 hole cards so the odds of an ace turn are now: 4/(52-4-3) = 8.8888%. So basically:

If villain has an ace on the flop, odds of ace on turn = 6.6666%
If villain does not have an ace on the flop, odds of ace on turn = 8.8888%

My results?

I saw a turn with KK on an Axx flop 96 times. The turn paired up a total of 19 times, and 3 times on an A for a net result of 3/96 = 3.125% (as a somewhat irrelevant aside, I know in one of those three villain had an A). The odds of this happening are again just off. If we make the ridiculous assumption that villain has an ace on the flop 100% of the time then we'd see an A on the turn 89% more often. If we assume he has an ace half the time (for an expectation of 7.7777% for an ace on the turn) then there'd be an ace 94.6% more often.

So of course variance is a big issue here. We're looking at 'only' 94.6% unlikely in the semi-realistic scenario. But it just kind of makes me feel uncomfortable that practically every single thing I'm looking up lately is off, and by alot.

I doubt many winning players peruse this thread but I'd love to see some corroborating or even conflicting data for the queries I've been testing.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
5) Completely. Assuming a sufficient sample size any grouping within a sample can also be examined for fairness. For instance, my stats against opponents whose names start with "D", or those whose accounts were created within the past 3 months, should also be fair assuming a sufficient sample size. In this case there is a sufficient sample size.
No, this isn't true at all. You chose your last 100k hands to analyse because you felt that you were running badly, so this is cherry-picking.

As an analogy, suppose you unluckily lost three heads-up matches in a row to opponents whose names started with 'D', then decided to analyse your last 100 matches against opponents whose names began with 'D' to see how if you were running on expectation. Obviously you would expect to be running *below* expectation, so this is cherry-picking as well.

The correct way to analyse is to say, 'I seem to lose a lot of equity against players whose names start with 'D'', and then look at the *next* 100 games, not a sample that includes data that gave you the reason to look at it in the first place.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do it Right
And once again the statistics make no sense whatsoever. In this case I chose a sample of 7 months exclusively to get a reasonable sample size. I am testing a model I mentioned in the spoiler to my last post. Particularly, I am curious on Axx boards when I have KK how often my opponent has an Ax. Here is my math:

If I have KK and villain has Ax (where x is not an A) then we 'know' 4 hole cards as well as the three flop cards. So the odds of an ace on the turn are 3/(52-4-3) = 6.666%. If villain does not have an ace in his hand then we again 'know' 4 hole cards so the odds of an ace turn are now: 4/(52-4-3) = 8.8888%. So basically:

If villain has an ace on the flop, odds of ace on turn = 6.6666%
If villain does not have an ace on the flop, odds of ace on turn = 8.8888%

My results?

I saw a turn with KK on an Axx flop 96 times. The turn paired up a total of 19 times, and 3 times on an A for a net result of 3/96 = 3.125% (as a somewhat irrelevant aside, I know in one of those three villain had an A). The odds of this happening are again just off. If we make the ridiculous assumption that villain has an ace on the flop 100% of the time then we'd see an A on the turn 89% more often. If we assume he has an ace half the time (for an expectation of 7.7777% for an ace on the turn) then there'd be an ace 94.6% more often.

So of course variance is a big issue here. We're looking at 'only' 94.6% unlikely in the semi-realistic scenario. But it just kind of makes me feel uncomfortable that practically every single thing I'm looking up lately is off, and by alot.

I doubt many winning players peruse this thread but I'd love to see some corroborating or even conflicting data for the queries I've been testing.
There is an error in the above.

If villain holds an (exactly one) Ace and flop is Axx, there are two unknown aces out of 45 unknown cards, and the chance of there being one on the turn is 4.44%

If villain holds no aces and the flop is Axx, the chance of there being one on the turn is 6.66%.

You gave the numbers 6.66% and 8.88% which are the values for flops containing no aces, so you cannot then compare them with your results on Axx flops.

Last edited by Pyromantha; 04-09-2011 at 06:35 AM. Reason: removed some unnecessary comments
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Oh really? So when I said this:



Why did you say this?



So either:

a) You were completely lying as usual like the pathetic little donk you are or
b) You did it at a time before you are now claiming the "new player" rigging began, making it totally irrelvant and intentionally misleading.

Now you could either prove me wrong by posting some data and making me look stupid, ignore me, or ramble on with more lies. What seems like the best option to you?
Since you have serious comprehension problems lets review. I was able to jump from site to site and make good money starting about 7 years ago for about 2 years? The U.S. legislation came along and that was the end of that. Then Cake network comes along AFTER that. I get the new players hook-up, cash-out big, get shut down, etc.
By the way, I recently tried everleaf network. Guess what! Same b.s. They only cut me a little slack before i had to cash out( a few hundred in profit). Then the usual happened when I put some money back in like an idiot.
This is why i get sick of you lying scum that promote this rigged garbage. Im not the only guy this happens too. It happens to everyone.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-09-2011 , 06:47 AM
Forgot to add. I dont play on any sites now. Its a total waste for U.S. players on fulltilt or pokerstars. You CANNOT come out ahead on those sites. The programming does not allow it.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
m