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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

03-17-2011 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt
That's actually a pretty bad flop for JJ against T9o. Prior to the flop you are about an 84% favorite. After the flop (even though you hit your trips) you drop to about a 71% favorite. Most other flops either make you an even bigger favorite. Even if your opponent flops his top pair, you're still an 81% favorite to win the hand. Why were you happy to see a pretty bad flop for you? Perhaps, you aren't that good at poker?

Also, it's pretty easy to make stuff up. My wife, who is a marine biologist and would never lie was doing a research study on Loch Ness, when she saw a large serpent come out of the water. Her camera was broken though so we have no evidence of it.

See how easy that was?
Of course u will say this king of felt u are a shill....anytime any1 gives examples thats what u do ...so why should we you are here to say its varience or its happens or you are just unlucky...Or the 1 i like best is u dont know what u are doing...lol!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem
The software does not "lag" when all in.

Please email support@pokerstars.com, and ask for your email to be passed to me, with a hand history number of a hand that you think 'lagged'. I will be able to get you the server timings of every point in the hand.

Obviously, the time to display stuff on your screen may vary depending on internet latency, etc. I think there's also a delay programmed into the animation on the screen for each step of the hand (eg, shipping the chips to the winner of a pot takes 1 or 1.5 or 2 seconds) which varies according to what table you are playing (eg, a fast table is faster).

BTW, I'm not reading this thread regularly.
looooooooool.........good answer!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Snip
Wasn't aware. I'm in.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Ignoring the lies in your 2nd paragraph, I would suggest that a site would do any number of other things before their business went bankrupt rather than rigging the deal because it would be stupid and ineffective.

Just to use an extreme example, will you admit that if you were desperate you would murder your parents for inheritance money rather than letting your own children starve? No, because it is a stupid nonsensical question, just like yours.
Great comparison ...you now have changed my mind i now believe i suck at the pokers because i would never starve my kids or kill my parents u sir are the man!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
My wife works for a large poker site and has direct contact with high level programmers. She tells me that all poker sites have software which scans your computer for child pornography. If it finds any your account is flagged and you are doomswitched in a clever way which is somehow impossible to find by looking at hand histories. If you complain or get close to the truth you had be better be careful that they don't report you to the relevant authorities.

This is 100% true because you have no reason to disbelieve something I just made up.
Another idiotic post because thats what he said exactly....good 1 shill!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
To Bingo and KingOfFelt:

You may have missed it but most of the shills are taking a voluntary few weeks off to sit back and watch the fun this thread would have been if it was left in the hands of just the riggies and Wiki.

...Now that would be a fun way for a shill to do a single gimmick post during a couple weeks off shilling and the only thing that would ruin the party would be if some other shills kept replying and muddying up the waters as the other riggies were just starting to gather around to eagerly build on such a theoretical gimmick post.


Anyway, just thought I would mention a totally theoretical situation and invite you to take a couple weeks off and perhaps if you wait a few days, create a gimmick account and toss in a totally over the top riggie post you can sit back and watch the show as well!
Maybe I didn't miss the fact that some shills self banned themselves but I didn't see the point considering how dull (silent) it was last time we did it.

Maybe a shill thought it would be fun to create a long winded gimmick post but is disappointed that nobody showed much interest despite his effort.

Maybe said shill thought Wiki in particular wouldn't be able to resist responding to it but is disappointed he hasn't posted.

Maybe it is ironic said shill is complaining about other shills "muddying the water" by breaking the self ban they never agreed to whilst themselves breaking their own self ban.

Last edited by Bingo_Boy; 03-17-2011 at 04:59 PM. Reason: but I'll stay away if it will really make you happy
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt
A lot of online sites actually work with the PPA in an effort to get poker regulated in the USA so they can operate legally in the USA. The reason online sites don't operate in the USA is not because they don't want to, but rather because the US has chosen not to regulate online poker in most states.
& u believe this?
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03-17-2011 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker15801
Another idiotic post because thats what he said exactly....good 1 shill!
You agree with what I wrote do you? Good to know...
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Maybe I didn't miss the fact that some shills self banned themselves but I didn't see the point considering how dull (silent) it was last time we did it.

Maybe a shill thought it would be fun to create a long winded gimmick post but is disappointed that nobody showed much interest despite his effort.

Maybe said shill thought Wiki in particular wouldn't be able to resist responding to it but is disapointed he hasn't posted.

Maybe it is ironic said shill is complaining about other shills "muddying the water" by breaking the self ban they never agreed to whilst themselves breaking their own self ban.
Maybe the riggies were already starting to gather around that theoretical post in a nice way (math riggies thinking how it helped weaker players, other riggies challenging shills to argue it etc)., and maybe the next gimmick post like that should be made with a bit more obvious help for shills to identify it as a gimmick. I know, perhaps the words Wingo_Woy, Mingo_Moy and Qingo_Qoy will be added at some point as secret code words.


Anyway, maybe I felt bad because a couple of honest, well intending hard working shills missed the thread boycott call and were debating a fake (which was the reason I theoretically broke the silence), but I only feel theoretically half as bad now, so carry on the battle, and good luck.

To remind the rigges, there was a good post to build on. Here it is again. See you in a couple weeks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills Dad
First post, long-time 2+2 lurker...

Short Version: Insider says rigging occurs.

I've been playing at large PokerSite A for many years and recently decided to switch to PokerSite B because of a really bad prolonged losing streak at PokerSite A. I casually mentioned this to my wife one night, and she said "that's good, because I forgot to tell you, PokerSite A is totally rigged".

My wife is clueless about online poker and I get tiredhead when uninformed people tell me online poker is rigged, so I decided to just ignore her statement and move on. But she continued with her story...

First, a little background. My wife is a lawyer at one of the 5 largest law firms on the planet. She manages a team of lawyers that review documents to determine whether or not their clients must hand them over in a discovery request. These documents are in databases that may contain millions and millions of documents. They have vendors that supply and manage these databases and supply the software that allows them to be manipulated. My wife spends a lot of her time working with these vendors resolving problems.

One day, while killing time on the phone with one of these vendors, she asked how "Joe" was doing. Joe used to work for this vendor, and he did a good job handling my wife's problems with this vendor software. The guy she was talking with is Joe's best friend, "Mark". Mark told her that Joe had left his low six-figure job with the US vendor for a much higher six-figure job offshore working for Pokersite A, and he loved his job. Mark had recently gone to see him on vacation. My wife remarked that her husband regularly plays poker on Pokersite A, to which Mark said "he needs to play somewhere else". She inquired as to why. Mark told her what Joe had told him.

Some of what Mark said is common knowledge, but my wife is clueless about online poker so she didn't know. For example, there are many, many bots out there playing poker (no way!!!) and the Chinese and Russians collaborate (wow!!!). Finding bots, collaborators, and cheats is a big part of Joe's job.

What really perked my ears was when she said PokerSite A rigs hands to encourage play. How, I asked. She said the cards aren't manipulated after they are dealt, but that are occasionally dealt to encourage play. This happens randomly, maybe once every 1,000 hands, 10,000 hands, etc (the wife didn't know the distribution rate). I've heard this called the inducer method. I used the word "inducer", and she said, "yeah, that's it".

Here's an example... today I played a hand at a $6.50 9m 1 table SNG. I'm SB on the bubble, holding JJ. I'm small stack with 10+ BB, and the big stack Button makes a weak 3x steal attempt. I have a lot of hands on him, and NoteCaddy tells me what he probably has, so I'm pretty sure I own him. I push, he calls, and sure enough, he has a T9o. I'm feeling happy about the J8x flop, but he pops a Q on the turn. I'm out. On a 4-person table, the flop gives one of us top set and the other an open-ended straight draw. That's a deal that's inducing action. Stupid me for getting involved with hand I don't need on the bubble.

It happens. I know it happens, and I've still gone back to playing Pokersite A. It doesn't really bother me, because the information I've shared indicates the hand isn't rigged beyond the occasional inducer deal. There is no DoomSwitch or Fish Reward or SuperUser out to get you. You were just unlucky enough to hit the wrong end of a random fixed deal. Besides, Pokersite A offers the opportunity to make a large sum of money if you hit the SuperHigh level of their rakeback program, even with an ROI around 4-5%. I don't play expecting a high ROI, I'm just playing to earn points and bonuses.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfFelt
A lot of online sites actually work with the PPA in an effort to get poker regulated in the USA so they can operate legally in the USA. The reason online sites don't operate in the USA is not because they don't want to, but rather because the US has chosen not to regulate online poker in most states.
I don't want to get caught up in the semantics but they do operate in the USA, they don't operate within the USA. The states haven't done much because the feds tried to eliminate the funding of internet poker rather than pass a new federal law that declares internet poker illegal and making all the citizens who play criminals.

But I agree that the PPA and online sites are trying to get the funding of internet poker legal in the US.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Maybe the riggies were already starting to gather around that theoretical post in a nice way (math riggies thinking how it helped weaker players, other riggies challenging shills to argue it etc)., and maybe the next gimmick post like that should be made with a bit more obvious help for shills to identify it as a gimmick. I know, perhaps the words Wingo_Woy, Mingo_Moy and Qingo_Qoy will be added at some point as secret code words.


Anyway, maybe I felt bad because a couple of honest, well intending hard working shills missed the thread boycott call and were debating a fake (which was the reason I theoretically broke the silence), but I only feel theoretically half as bad now, so carry on the battle, and good luck.

To remind the rigges, there was a good post to build on. Here it is again. See you in a couple weeks.
I don't see the point in creating gimmick posts to induce stupity because there is so much to enjoy here anyway. If you did the same last time it certainly didn't make the thread very entertaining.

Despite my snarky post, although I noticed some people were taking a break from the thread I didn't appreciate it was a full blown self ban because the experiment was such a failure last time. If I had realised it was happening again I would have chirped up because there is no point in anybody doing it unless we all do it.

So I guess I'm in.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
If that is the point of the argument then American rigtards should be lobbying their government and posting in the relevant threads rather than lying in this one.
Or you should read the piece of **** code you posted and compare it to the Nevada gaming statutes. Maybe you might conclude that the IOM regulations are relatively ineffective and toothless. Plus, as has been pointed out many times with Russ Hamilton, which of these island countries ever prosecuted a violation of their gambling codes?

It's so easy to find such information through google, heaven forbid you read its content.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker15801
looooooooool.........good answer!
Actually it is a good answer. I hope the original poster sends in the HH so Josem can look them up and share the results.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 05:49 PM
lol this is so much fun (talking to u shills) it reminds of when going to a restuarant & changing ur mind 4-5 times b4 u order u guys are good & i hope u get paid well for your time....
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 06:16 PM
Wait.....just one second...........yes.........must be..........

Do you guys think Wills Dad is Monteroy? I think he might be.

You had the wooled pulled over our eyes there for a few pages, Monty. Good job.

Now I see the similarities between the "inducer" and the "no-action" hand. Although I think the "inducer" sounds much better and will really catch on.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Or you should read the piece of **** code you posted and compare it to the Nevada gaming statutes. Maybe you might conclude that the IOM regulations are relatively ineffective and toothless. Plus, as has been pointed out many times with Russ Hamilton, which of these island countries ever prosecuted a violation of their gambling codes?

It's so easy to find such information through google, heaven forbid you read its content.
Sorry i had to break the silence
You freaky ignorant moron since when Canada is an island!

Btw Absolute poker was own by amerindian mafia when the scandal happens! and our government are very scared of them , they are free to do almost anything on their reserve since the oka crysis. If people had done some research about the owner they will never put money in the first place!

Last edited by Dlogic; 03-17-2011 at 07:07 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
I think the general point of the non-regulation argument is that these companies have 70% of their business come from the U.S.
this is certainly not true for PokerStars, and probably not true for any other online poker site in the top 10 highest-traffic sites on pokerscout.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joker15801
looooooooool.........good answer!
ty
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josem
The software does not "lag" when all in.

Please email support@pokerstars.com, and ask for your email to be passed to me, with a hand history number of a hand that you think 'lagged'. I will be able to get you the server timings of every point in the hand.

Obviously, the time to display stuff on your screen may vary depending on internet latency, etc. I think there's also a delay programmed into the animation on the screen for each step of the hand (eg, shipping the chips to the winner of a pot takes 1 or 1.5 or 2 seconds) which varies according to what table you are playing (eg, a fast table is faster).

BTW, I'm not reading this thread regularly.
yes joker, i agree, this was a classic response.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 09:43 PM
Been thinking about it and I have come up with one way that sites can rig the software to increase their income without it showing up in a statistical analysis.

1. Create a mode of poker where people are transfered to a new table after every hand
2. Claim that the person at the table that hasn't paid the BB in the longest period of time is the BB for that hand
3. Have it appear to each player that they are the BB and the person to their right is the SB etc.
4. Only put 1 BB and 1 SB into the pot before the flop.
5. Profit.

Seems reasonable right?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
Been thinking about it and I have come up with one way that sites can rig the software to increase their income without it showing up in a statistical analysis.

1. Create a mode of poker where people are transfered to a new table after every hand
2. Claim that the person at the table that hasn't paid the BB in the longest period of time is the BB for that hand
3. Have it appear to each player that they are the BB and the person to their right is the SB etc.
4. Only put 1 BB and 1 SB into the pot before the flop.
5. Profit.

Seems reasonable right?
sounds like rush poker at full tilt to me. funny guy.
Has nothing to do with the real rigging which moves old money to new money, over and over, to create re-buy after re-buy.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
No


Your theoretical question is:

Q: Poker site are having financial problems do they

a) go bankrupt, or
b) rig the deck

A: Neither. Don't ask stupid questions. Giving me only two options doesnt give any indication of the likelyhood of either option ever happening

If you believe that a business is funadamentally honest they would do any number of legitimate things to avoid a). If you are paranoid enough to distrust the business then they may do any number of illegitimate things instead of b). Proposing a theoretical situation with only two ridiculous outcomes doesn't make either of those outcomes less ridiculous.

So, question for you:

Q: If you found some money on the ground, would you
a) steal it and spend it on hookers and blow or would you
b) knock on every door within a 20 mile radius desperately searching for the true owner of the money

A: Neither. Don't ask stupid questions. Giving me only two options doesnt give any indication of the likelyhood of either option ever happening.
The site would "do other things"? Like what more advertising? In this question, we assume that they have already tried obvious ethical options. If it came down to a choice of either going bankrupt or cheating the players, what would a poker site do? It's not a nonsense question by any means. Its a perfectly rational question. Its a scenario that could easily come up, originating in mismanagement of assets or legal restrictions to markets of players. Giving a fish a 5% boost could keep him playing for years more. Multiply that by the number of fish and you start getting into some huge numbers in terms of rake. And don't kid yourself, it's all about the rake to them and not a damn thing else.

I was aware of the Isle of man regulatory commission. I had them confused with the kawanake gaming commission. I get my dog and pony shows mixed up sometimes excuse me.

Pokerstars has about the best customer service I have ever encountered short of a few upper end restaurants I have been to. But that only makes me trust them less. Its almost like their core business is not to provide poker but to create this mirage. Their customer service staff are intelligent college grads. They respond quickly, which means they are adequately staffed. That takes sooooo much money. What are they trying to compensate for? What are they trying to hide?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
sounds like rush poker at full tilt to me. funny guy.
Has nothing to do with the real rigging which moves old money to new money, over and over, to create re-buy after re-buy.
re-read it and try to comprehend the implications
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-17-2011 , 10:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuces McKracken
Pokerstars has about the best customer service I have ever encountered short of a few upper end restaurants I have been to. But that only makes me trust them less. Its almost like their core business is not to provide poker but to create this mirage. Their customer service staff are intelligent college grads. They respond quickly, which means they are adequately staffed. That takes sooooo much money. What are they trying to compensate for? What are they trying to hide?
(since the shill boycott seems to have been a flop anyway)

Please tell me you're a Poe.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-18-2011 , 12:01 AM
DO you know how much a pot needs to be raised to cap the rake.(action hands?)
DO you realise that math is not relevant to meny of these so called poker sites.
DO you read how Pros have come out before (not the ones with million dollar contracts)
telling you these sites are bogus.

DO you understand that PS is not a law abiding registered US company.
Where is the million hand post flop analysis?
DO you ignore other studys on PS that involves more hands than this spaceassbumshills study,That contradict all what this, lost in space guy has er .........published??? on PS alone.
Do you have no life only the one that is based around your selfworth and ignorant views in this thread that includes rambo tough posts on other posters with no regard for respect only to shill your sole objective.

DO you still deposit?
Welcome to the world of a billion dollar company and all the evils that rake will provide.
DO you realise more than 1 poker site in the past has ripped off its customers in one way or another and others still do today.
DO you like bots.DO you like collusion.DO you like horses. Do you like ghosting.Do you like teamplay Do you like account selling deep in Trnys.

ETHICS have no place when it comes to online poker only fleecing ignorant fools of money.

Never deposit on an online pokersite if you like money.

DO you want me to tell you more?
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