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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
Undecided 892 9.05%
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:00 PM   #2876
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by dbcooper279 View Post
FYP

That's funny, there are also thousands of idiots roaming the planet as well. Coincidence?

Just because a lot of people agree on a conclusion does not mean it is correct. How about all the 'flat-earth folks', or people that think the moon landings and 9/11 were conspiracies.

There are millions of people who have opinions on subjects that they haven't the slightest clue what they are talking about.

Notice how little statistical analysis was done in the long post about people's bad beats.

Never attribute to conspiracy when stupidity of the observer will suffice.
Dont get me started on 911 and the FAKE Moon landings.

It s interesting that you relate the world is flat to people who believe poker is rigged when for me people who DONT think OP is rigged are comparable to those who believed that the world was flat.
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:03 PM   #2877
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Dont get me started on 911 and the FAKE Moon landings.
lol, who would have guessed that a rigtard also believe in the rest of the typical conspiracy theories?

IMO, life is rigged by an invisible man who lives in the clouds.
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:05 PM   #2878
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Sooper, you are now a troll. You used to be a genuine rigtard, now you are purely an agitator without any conviction. So gtfo.
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:18 PM   #2879
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Sharkscope is rigged IMO to hide house players/house bots true results.
And rather than just requesting that their stats be blocked they create false ones, thus implicating more people and creating more evidence? Just go away.
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:24 PM   #2880
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Dont get me started on 911 and the FAKE Moon landings.
I don't know, I used 911 to call for emergency assistance and it worked great for me. But maybe that's 'cause I'm an Internet Shill...
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Theres a lot of Internet shills lurking around the major forums in an organised effort to push government agenda. The reason its hard for you to understand why they re calling the guy on the tape a douche is that they re doing their job of discrediting anyone standing up for their rights.Anyone in their right mind listening to that tape knows that the police are way out of line not the guy with $4700.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:36 PM   #2881
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by dbcooper279 View Post
FYP

That's funny, there are also thousands of idiots roaming the planet as well. Coincidence?

Just because a lot of people agree on a conclusion does not mean it is correct. How about all the 'flat-earth folks', or people that think the moon landings and 9/11 were conspiracies.

There are millions of people who have opinions on subjects that they haven't the slightest clue what they are talking about.

Notice how little statistical analysis was done in the long post about people's bad beats.

Never attribute to conspiracy when stupidity of the observer will suffice.
Only americans don't believe 9/11 conspiracies.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:50 PM   #2882
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

All they would have to do is adjust a couple %'s here and there and in the long run it would be a huge difference but no one would really be able to find out.

In real poker all these players would be broke so fast its not even funny. They ****en suck so bad. Whenever all these internet geeks talk about how some "legend" woulden't be able to beat nl50 or whatever. Well probably,because who's to say its real poker.

For all the people saying prove that its rigged, why don't you prove its not rigged. You can't either way.

As for as I'm a winning player so it must not be rigged, someone has to win. Only losers think its rigged.

Even if I won every game, I would still think its all BS. Never trust anyone or anything when money is involved. NEVER.
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Old 04-27-2009, 06:58 PM   #2883
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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For all the people saying prove that its rigged, why don't you prove its not rigged. You can't either way.
what ****ing part of THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE ACCUSER are you having trouble with?
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Never trust anyone or anything when money is involved. NEVER.
do you worry you're not getting a full gallon of gasoline at the pump? think the guy at the photo store is selling the pictures of your wife to pornographers? raise your own cattle in case the butcher shop is selling you nutria in the place of ground beef? where does it end?

we get it - you think it's rigged. why are you here now?
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:36 PM   #2884
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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All they would have to do is adjust a couple %'s here and there and in the long run it would be a huge difference but no one would really be able to find out.
Doing a statistical analysis of a bunch of hands (hundreds of thousands), a small adjustment in the percentages would show up.

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For all the people saying prove that its rigged, why don't you prove its not rigged.
Proof doesn't work that way. In the world of proofs, you prove that something is what you say it is, not that it isn't something else.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:13 PM   #2885
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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All they would have to do is adjust a couple %'s here and there and in the long run it would be a huge difference but no one would really be able to find out.
You say it yourself. It would be a huge difference. This discrepancy would show up if you analyzed a large amount of hands. (HINT: Large amount of hands = long run)
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:29 AM   #2886
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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You say it yourself. It would be a huge difference. This discrepancy would show up if you analyzed a large amount of hands. (HINT: Large amount of hands = long run)
But not if they made the adjustments so carefully they couldn't be recognized by so called "analysis", only by the keen eyes and minds of certain players.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:16 AM   #2887
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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But not if they made the adjustments so carefully they couldn't be recognized by so called "analysis", only by the keen eyes and minds of certain players.
Ah, you mean in the timing, for example.

This is where rigtards really show their almost complete inability to think logically. They claim that the sites are making 'adjustments' so subtle that they cannot be mathematicaly detected and then post examples of ways in which they have lost unexpectedly (although, often this is just because they can't do the maths to know what to expect).

They seem to think that if they lose two successive hands where they were 10-1 favourites this is indicative of rigging whilst at one and the same time claiming the rigging will not yield to extensive analysis with probability maths.

How the hell do people like that ever work out how to cross a road?
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:54 AM   #2888
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Ah, you mean in the timing, for example.

This is where rigtards really show their almost complete inability to think logically. They claim that the sites are making 'adjustments' so subtle that they cannot be mathematicaly detected and then post examples of ways in which they have lost unexpectedly (although, often this is just because they can't do the maths to know what to expect).

They seem to think that if they lose two successive hands where they were 10-1 favourites this is indicative of rigging whilst at one and the same time claiming the rigging will not yield to extensive analysis with probability maths.

How the hell do people like that ever work out how to cross a road?
+one million
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:27 AM   #2889
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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All they would have to do is adjust a couple %'s here and there and in the long run it would be a huge difference but no one would really be able to find out.
Please describe how this adjustment of a couple % here and there would work, and how it would 1) make significantly more money for the company, while 2) not being readily detectable in large hand databases. This is a serious question.

Keep in mind that accumulating multi-million-hand histories has become common and they are readily available for analysis. There are at least two billion+ hand history databases available that I know of.

I'd really like to hear a design for a scheme that is even remotely plausible and meets those two simple qualifications. If you don't understand statistics and poker well enough to answer the second part, then admit it and say you have nothing but an unsubstantiated hunch. On the first part, I'll make it really easy for you and say you only have to increase the rake by 10% over an honest game (total over time, whether it be more active players, bigger pots, more deposits, whatever. But show the math. )

Go...

P.S. - if you can design a plausible scheme that meets those qualifications and is backed up by math, and isn't easily debunked by posters on this forum, I'll transfer you $100 on Stars or FT. This offer is open to all rigtards for the next week.

Last edited by spadebidder; 04-28-2009 at 05:44 AM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:28 AM   #2890
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Please describe how this adjustment of a couple % here and there would work, and how it would 1) make significantly more money for the company, while 2) not being readily detectable in large hand databases. This is a serious question.

Keep in mind that accumulating multi-million-hand histories has become common and they are readily available for analysis. There are at least two billion+ hand history databases available that I know of.

I'd really like to hear a design for a scheme that is even remotely plausible and meets those two simple qualifications. If you don't understand statistics and poker well enough to answer the second part, then admit it and say you have nothing but an unsubstantiated hunch. On the first part, I'll make it really easy for you and say you only have to increase the rake by 10% over an honest game (total over time, whether it be more active players, bigger pots, more deposits, whatever. But show the math. )

Go...

P.S. - if you can design a plausible scheme that meets those qualifications and is backed up by math, and isn't easily debunked by posters on this forum, I'll transfer you $100 on Stars or FT. This offer is open to all rigtards for the next week.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:52 AM   #2891
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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P.S. - if you can design a plausible scheme that meets those qualifications and is backed up by math, and isn't easily debunked by posters on this forum, I'll transfer you $100 on Stars or FT. This offer is open to all rigtards for the next week.


Hearing only crickets chirp so far.....
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:40 AM   #2892
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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How the hell do people like that ever work out how to cross a road?
on this note...

Online, I frequently see play so horrible I wonder how the people responsible even manage to turn on their computers.

Then I see the live play at cardrooms/casinos. Somehow it's worse.

NEXT, rigtards arrive with the familiar introduction, "I am a winning live player."

What that means to me is the rigtards who post here are good enough to turn on a computer. Not that they are good, just a little better than their competition.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:46 AM   #2893
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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NEXT, rigtards arrive with the familiar introduction, "I am a winning live player. Now, I don't think on line poker is rigged or anything like that but ..."
FYP.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:04 PM   #2894
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Please describe how this adjustment of a couple % here and there would work, and how it would 1) make significantly more money for the company, while 2) not being readily detectable in large hand databases. This is a serious question.

Keep in mind that accumulating multi-million-hand histories has become common and they are readily available for analysis. There are at least two billion+ hand history databases available that I know of.

I'd really like to hear a design for a scheme that is even remotely plausible and meets those two simple qualifications. If you don't understand statistics and poker well enough to answer the second part, then admit it and say you have nothing but an unsubstantiated hunch. On the first part, I'll make it really easy for you and say you only have to increase the rake by 10% over an honest game (total over time, whether it be more active players, bigger pots, more deposits, whatever. But show the math. )

Go...

P.S. - if you can design a plausible scheme that meets those qualifications and is backed up by math, and isn't easily debunked by posters on this forum, I'll transfer you $100 on Stars or FT. This offer is open to all rigtards for the next week.
Lets see all these histories.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:18 PM   #2895
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

From all my history, all I see is I'm losing more than I should when I'm ahead and winning more than I should when I'm behind.

Flush draws are just a joke on PS. But then I again I can't remember the last time I folded one.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:20 PM   #2896
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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From all my history, all I see is I'm losing more than I should when I'm ahead and winning more than I should when I'm behind.

Flush draws are just a joke on PS. But then I again I can't remember the last time I folded one.
From what history? I haven't seen you post any sort of statistics, other than perhaps one or two individual hands. Do you mind posting the hand histories you are analyzing to come to your conclusions, or are you just "remembering" them and your mind is so powerful it can analyze thousands upon thousands of hands to determine statistical anomalies?
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:04 PM   #2897
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

For somebody to claim something is legit then put it on the market is one thing, but to prove something is legit then put it on the market is another thing. Like that stock brocker that was ripping everybody off, showing people that this person made this much money and that person made that much money. So it's real! Just ask XXXX. Why should somebody buy that stock if they can't prove it's legit? Do owners say to their clients, "Prove it's not legit, the burden of prove is on the accuser!" No, they don't, ever. That's not how business works. Especially a business that draws this much speculation. Unless they have something to hide. These sites hit the market with no real, authentic proof that it's legit. They create or employ an auditing company that says they reviewed their operations and everything is legit and on the up and up? That's gospel? We and they(haha) saw what happens to CEO's and poker sites that cheat players(UB and AP.) Absolutely nothing. Worst case scenario, you get caught and have to reimburse half the money they stole....I'm at a loss for words here...
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:08 PM   #2898
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Funny to see the same 5 people here again as usual....
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:09 PM   #2899
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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For somebody to claim something is legit then put it on the market is one thing, but to prove something is legit then put it on the market is another thing. Like that stock brocker that was ripping everybody off, showing people they this person made this much money and that person made that much money. Why should somebody buy that stock if they can't prove it's legit? Do owners say to their clients, "Prove it's not legit, the burden of prove is on the accuser!" No, they don't ever. Unless they have something to hide. These sites hit the market with no real, authentic proof that it's legit. We and they(haha) saw what happens to CEO's and poker sites that cheat players(UB and AP.) Absolutely nothing. Worst case scenario, you get caught and have to reimburse half the money you stole....I'm at a loss for words here...
Countless hands have been analyzed by players (that have extensive knowledge in probability theory) and have found nothing. You choose not to trust the audits that have been done on the RNG's. Nothing will satisfy you.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:10 PM   #2900
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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....I'm at a loss for NEW words here...
...
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