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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,449 34.95%
No 5,524 55.98%
Undecided 895 9.07%
Voters: 9868. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-05-2008, 12:22 PM   #251
gfire3245
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

I folded an all in with queens once, not because i thought was beat, but because i thought i could not win. I would of lost obv. After you lost with 3 big hands, you just continue to lose, or win in some cases.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:50 PM   #252
xkidx
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

So, I don't usually do this cuz I really ****ing hate talking about beats but, since we're making a little festival out of this..

6MAX Game on stars.

Me(button): Kh Qd

Villain(SB): As Kc

Board: Ks Kd Qs

Money goes in on flop and..

Turn: 10s

River: Js.




..Oh. Beat that, fool.

Last edited by xkidx; 08-05-2008 at 02:51 PM. Reason: Standard, imo.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:39 PM   #253
JPFisher55
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleFilter View Post
Sorry to post for first time in this thread... Sorry for my english also.

Just one thing about APCW "audit".

25K hands are very insufficient to prove anything. You should be dealt AA and KK about 220 times in total for this amount of hands. They said that they count only hands when they are called by one only opponent. They don't say this number but it is very important. AA/KK is 70-90% favourite against random hand, but when you play AA/KK only, pushing it every time, you will be called rarely and if called it is very possible the caller to have AA/KK, smaller pp or swited connectors... everything else but not "pure random hand" which includes all trash hands also. So if they are called 150 times (very optimistic imo), about 50% win rate is very expected. Moreover that ~30% deviation is equal to a very poor amount of 40 hands.
I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, 25K hands is too few to determine winning or losing. However, APCW use it to test hand distribution to players. APCW found that players in early position received better hands more often than players in late position in a statistically significant number of times. 25k hands is enough for this purpose.

IMO, AA and KK should win about 75% of the time when all in preflop. Even over 100 hands, their win rate all in preflop should be more than 54%; it was at other sites.

This is not proof positive that FTP has a skewed RNG, but it is credible evidence. In addition, FTP does not refer to or link to any Certificate of RNG on its site. Nor has FTP ever replied to this thread or other previous threads about APCW's audit.

I'll play elsewhere thank you.
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:20 PM   #254
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55 View Post
I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, 25K hands is too few to determine winning or losing. However, APCW use it to test hand distribution to players. APCW found that players in early position received better hands more often than players in late position in a statistically significant number of times. 25k hands is enough for this purpose.

IMO, AA and KK should win about 75% of the time when all in preflop. Even over 100 hands, their win rate all in preflop should be more than 54%; it was at other sites.

This is not proof positive that FTP has a skewed RNG, but it is credible evidence. In addition, FTP does not refer to or link to any Certificate of RNG on its site. Nor has FTP ever replied to this thread or other previous threads about APCW's audit.

I'll play elsewhere thank you.
LOL, and yet those of us with hundreds of thousands of hands in our databases have more than enough evidence to prove the APCW useless.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:09 PM   #255
iplay27off
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

pokertracker has my aa winning 50% of the time.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:38 PM   #256
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

OMGSF rigged obv
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:36 PM   #257
NFuego20
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iplay27off View Post
pokertracker has my aa winning 50% of the time.
a) stop slowplaying/minraising and seeing 5-6 way flops with aa

b) you curiously left out your sample size

c) pokertracker has my aa winning 88.36% of the time in 756 hands in an overall sample of 162,696 hands

d) it's ice cream sammich time
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:18 AM   #258
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

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Originally Posted by NFuego20 View Post
a) stop slowplaying/minraising and seeing 5-6 way flops with aa

b) you curiously left out your sample size

c) pokertracker has my aa winning 88.36% of the time in 756 hands in an overall sample of 162,696 hands

d) it's ice cream sammich time
blow me...and stick your ice cream up your butt.

Did I post my HH idiot ice cream eater?
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:14 AM   #259
TripleFilter
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55 View Post
I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, 25K hands is too few to determine winning or losing. However, APCW use it to test hand distribution to players. APCW found that players in early position received better hands more often than players in late position in a statistically significant number of times. 25k hands is enough for this purpose.

IMO, AA and KK should win about 75% of the time when all in preflop. Even over 100 hands, their win rate all in preflop should be more than 54%; it was at other sites.

This is not proof positive that FTP has a skewed RNG, but it is credible evidence. In addition, FTP does not refer to or link to any Certificate of RNG on its site. Nor has FTP ever replied to this thread or other previous threads about APCW's audit.

I'll play elsewhere thank you.
I don't say if FTP is rigged or not. I hope it is not. I believe it is not. But who knows... However, if somebody wants to prove his theory "OMG XYZ_Poker is rigged" he must be more diligent and of course smart, because audits like this one dont prove anything... The "big proof" - win rate of AA/KK in less then 150 HU games... come on, sounds even funny.
About card distrubution by positions - it is really interesting, but again 25K hands are not enough, moreover the numbers were very close.

EDIT: In my database win rate of AA/KK is about 85% of 18,000 hands. Does it prove that FTP is not rigged?
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:34 AM   #260
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleFilter View Post
I don't say if FTP is rigged or not. I hope it is not. I believe it is not. But who knows... However, if somebody wants to prove his theory "OMG XYZ_Poker is rigged" he must be more diligent and of course smart, because audits like this one dont prove anything... The "big proof" - win rate of AA/KK in less then 150 HU games... come on, sounds even funny.
About card distrubution by positions - it is really interesting, but again 25K hands are not enough, moreover the numbers were very close.

EDIT: In my database win rate of AA/KK is about 85% of 18,000 hands. Does it prove that FTP is not rigged?
no but it seems to indicate that it is zomg rigged no doubt
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:04 AM   #261
jj179
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPFisher55 View Post
I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, 25K hands is too few to determine winning or losing. However, APCW use it to test hand distribution to players. APCW found that players in early position received better hands more often than players in late position in a statistically significant number of times. 25k hands is enough for this purpose.

IMO, AA and KK should win about 75% of the time when all in preflop. Even over 100 hands, their win rate all in preflop should be more than 54%; it was at other sites.

This is not proof positive that FTP has a skewed RNG, but it is credible evidence. In addition, FTP does not refer to or link to any Certificate of RNG on its site. Nor has FTP ever replied to this thread or other previous threads about APCW's audit.

I'll play elsewhere thank you.
I went to APCW org and didn't see the audit (I don't fancy signing up). The bit I put in bold is quite wrong, I can't tell if it is just the language you've used or the thought behind it.

Think of it this way: take a brand new deck of cards and a brand new shuffling machine. Shuffle and deal out one hand of Hold'em for example. On the very first deal I flop a Royal Flush, the odds being I think 649,740 to 1 against. Does this suggest the deck was set or the machine is biased in some way? Does it make any difference how many hands that deck is going to deal? Of course not, it is not credible evidence of any funny business, and neither is a run where aces lose far more often than they 'should' do long term, it is just variance.

I'm not suggesting you should change your policy of playing on Full Tilt but I think the reason you've stated that you avoid it is based on a fallacy, and a report that is likely to be biased in some way. One thing I'd be interested in seeing is how they decided early position players get dealt stronger hands. We all know people are more likely to stick to the stronger part of their distribution in early, and loosen up in late. Did they take a 25k hand sample where all players seated went to the river?

I think there are some pretty smart regulars on FT with large databases, if they haven't spotted wild statistical anomalies it's probably because there are none.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:33 PM   #262
JPFisher55
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

When tracker software like PEV, the EV stats in PT3 and in HEM are finished and some time has elapsed, then I believe we will have more credible evidence of sites whose RNG may not be random.
In the meantime, I trust the ones with an RNG Certificate.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:52 PM   #263
lupette
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Yes you probably are getting cheated:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MsWi97...eature=related
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:12 PM   #264
JayA
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

YES FULL TILT IS RIGGED EXCELLENT EXAMPLE TONIGHT WITH THIS LAG HCYHAYCHYHYHAHCYAHCYACHYH
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:51 PM   #265
ervinsantana
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

**** full tilt. I am tired of BULL****!

I mean, at least make it realistic. QQ vs. JJ

The straight shows up on the board! WTF!!!

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Old 08-23-2008, 01:53 PM   #266
ervinsantana
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

someone who knows what they're talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r89tSAxAu0c
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Old 08-23-2008, 02:05 PM   #267
j9neverlose
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ervinsantana View Post
**** full tilt. I am tired of BULL****!

I mean, at least make it realistic. QQ vs. JJ

The straight shows up on the board! WTF!!!

[X] $1.25 sng
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:04 PM   #268
STRIKE2CALLED
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ervinsantana View Post
someone who knows what they're talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r89tSAxAu0c
haha that one is my favorite lol
"me and my friends are good players.. we play every day.. we call the cards out every time"
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Old 08-23-2008, 05:05 PM   #269
NFuego20
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

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Originally Posted by j9neverlose View Post
[X] $1.25 sng
ROFLMAO

Epic bump. ZOMG my QQ lost to JJ it's rogged. FTP is rigged to take my $1.25.
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Old 08-23-2008, 05:18 PM   #270
WWKMS
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

yes, if you ever make a withdrawal you are automatically doomswitched to loose the rest of the money in your account.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:56 PM   #271
donkman
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
ok maybe its variance, but someone can calclutae the possibilities of such variance?
I have calculated that all things are possible in Poker. You can have Aces lose to 7 2 unsuited 100 times in a row and still be in an honest game.

It is mathematically possible to never win another hand for the rest of your life.

This is the reason that it is impossible to prove that a game is rigged.
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Old 08-24-2008, 08:50 AM   #272
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevmanc View Post
In my whole time playing on FT and PartyPoker I am up the grand total of $50; although I've never had to re-deposit, over a long spell of time that's a rather poultry return, I realise that.
poultry return



paltry return

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Old 08-24-2008, 04:26 PM   #273
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

i love this thread
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:50 PM   #274
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

I love the UI and the options on Full Tilt, and it's the site I started playing on. I'm also a winning player (only a bit more than 20% plus, but still), playing mostly low stakes cash games and tourneys.
Recently I started playing Stars as well, and now I'm probably going to close down my ft account. There is a marked difference in two areas between stars and ft:
1. the number of monster hands, and
2. the number of suckouts

I don't think ft is rigged to benefit certain players, but it does seem suspicious that practically every hand is a monster and that you expect to be sucked out on when you're in front.
Did you read this article then: http://www.fulltiltpokerreport.com/f...andomizer.html? It is quite interesting and might provide some answers. If this is correct about the rng's, Í would choose a shuffle-once-then-deal site any day of the week. Does that mean ft is rigged? Hmmm...

Veigald
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:56 PM   #275
Markusgc
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Re: Is Full Tilt rigged?

Quote:
Originally Posted by senjitsu View Post
paltry return

that's a stellar return on a $1.25 investment!
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