Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Discussion of Poker Sites General discussion of online poker sites.

View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.01%
Undecided 892 9.05%
Voters: 9859. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-23-2009, 11:13 AM   #2701
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Fun with the shortstacks today.20NL on ipoker.
really?
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 11:18 AM   #2702
SooperFish24
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,028
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Username^^ View Post
Good luck -.-
Thanks.

One MTT Im 2nd out of 36 with 90 runners.

18/33 360 runners.

14/16 90 runners.

23/53 90 runners.
SooperFish24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 11:42 AM   #2703
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Plus Ive hit a set literally 75% of the time Ive had pocket pair. Rigged for me today lol. At this rate Im gonna Final Table all 4.
Haven't you got it yet?

Yes, some days it's 'rigged' for you and some days it's 'rigged' against you.

It's just perfectly natural cardfall.

It really would be in your own best interests to learn more probability maths so that you can realise that there's (probably) nothing unnatural about the deal and concentrate on playing poker without rigging concerns distracting you.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 11:48 AM   #2704
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Haven't you got it yet?

Yes, some days it's 'rigged' for you and some days it's 'rigged' against you.
is that based on your Zodiac sign? are we back to "it's all in the timing?"
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 11:56 AM   #2705
SooperFish24
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,028
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Haven't you got it yet?

Yes, some days it's 'rigged' for you and some days it's 'rigged' against you.

It's just perfectly natural cardfall.

It really would be in your own best interests to learn more probability maths so that you can realise that there's (probably) nothing unnatural about the deal and concentrate on playing poker without rigging concerns distracting you.
LOL.

Whats the odds of hitting a set on the flop 1/8. Not 3/4. Not exactly what I would call natural cardfall.

There s is nothing natural about Pokerstars deal.
SooperFish24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 11:57 AM   #2706
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Username^^ View Post
Thats what i thought as well
There's a long thread about it where the site first announced their plans, and it was rightfully ridiculed for a lot of reasons. The fact that it does nothing to eliminate the possibility of a rigged deal, which is it's entire raison d'ętre, was prominent in the criticisms.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:01 PM   #2707
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
LOL.

Whats the odds of hitting a set on the flop 1/8. Not 3/4. Not exactly what I would call natural cardfall.

There s is nothing natural about Pokerstars deal.
Prop bet time. I'll give you 10 to 1.

If you can show me any contiguous series of 100 or more times where any PS player saw the flop with pocket pairs, and flopped 75% sets, I will transfer you $10,000 on Poker Stars. Any player, any hand history, any time. Ever. Provide the hand histories.

If you take my bet and cannot show this, you give me $1000. 10 to 1 odds for you.

Acceptance of this bet expires today, and you can have a week to find the proof. Bet?

Last edited by spadebidder; 04-23-2009 at 12:08 PM.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:10 PM   #2708
SooperFish24
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,028
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Prop bet time. I'll give you 10 to 1.

If you can show me any contiguous series of 100 or more times where any PS player saw the flop with pocket pairs, and flopped 75% sets, I will transfer you $10,000 on Poker Stars. Any player, any hand history, any time. Ever. Provide the hand histories.

If you take my bet and cannot show this, you give me $1000. 10 to 1 odds for you.

Acceptance of this bet expires today, and you can have a week to find the proof. Bet?

An added benefit is that this will be hard proof of a rigged deal.
How bout my first 20 hands with a PP from Pokerstars today instead, at 70% hitting a set during the hand.

I dont import stars HH from tourneys so is there any way to check my HH and how many times I actually did hit a set.

Id do 10 to 1 for whatever I have left in my Stars account.
SooperFish24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:16 PM   #2709
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
How bout my first 20 hands with a PP from Pokerstars today instead, at 70% hitting a set during the hand.

I dont import stars HH from tourneys so is there any way to check my HH and how many times I actually did hit a set.

Id do 10 to 1 for whatever I have left in my Stars account.
We didn't say "during the hand" we said "on the flop".

Your next 30 pocket pairs (from whenever we agree to start), you must get 21 or more sets on the flop. You have to put up $1000 to take the bet. I put up $10,000. We will get someone to escrow the money for us.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:19 PM   #2710
SooperFish24
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,028
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
We didn't say "during the hand" we said "on the flop".

Your next 30 pocket pairs, you get 21 or more sets on the flop. You have to put up $1000 to take the bet. I put up $10,000. We will get someone to escrow the money for us.
How bout my first 20 hands with a PP from Pokerstars today instead, at 70% hitting a set during the hand.

I dont import stars HH from tourneys so is there any way to check my HH and how many times I actually did hit a set.

Id do 10 to 1 for whatever I have left in my Stars account.

Ill only do it this way and I dont have a 1000$ to gamble with at the moment.

Even if we didnt bet would there be a way to get the HH and check my first load off PPs when I was hitting constantly.
SooperFish24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:21 PM   #2711
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
is that based on your Zodiac sign? are we back to "it's all in the timing?"
If someone believes that a site is rigged and can overcome their selective memory for a while, that is how it must appear to them (if they're honest).
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:24 PM   #2712
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

You claimed sets flop 75% on Poker Stars. My $10,00 bet giving 10:1 for you, is for you to prove that, and I will allow a sample as small as 30 contiguous pocket pairs, from any player at any time.

If you want to retract your claim about sets, you may do so now.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:29 PM   #2713
DMoogle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DMoogle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern VA, USA
Posts: 7,132
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

SooperFish24: As far as not saving your HHs (hmmm... seems to be standard for rigtards to not use a tracker), you can request them from PS.
DMoogle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:31 PM   #2714
SooperFish24
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,028
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
You claimed sets flop 75% on Poker Stars. My bet is for you to prove that, and I will allow a sample as small as 30 contiguous pocket pairs, from any player at any time.

If you want to retract your claim about sets, you may do so now.
No I dont want to retract.

Do you know how I could check the HH at all because now Im more curious than anything to show how many times I actually did flop a set in my first hour or so.

I never said that pairs will flop a set 75% of the time ALL the time, but they sure did today in my first hour or so of stars in a month.

My bet is to show you that it did happen and Im wondering how I would prove it.
SooperFish24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:49 PM   #2715
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
I never said that pairs will flop a set 75% of the time ALL the time, but they sure did today in my first hour or so of stars in a month.
That's the whole point, and this is typical rigtard thinking. In an hour you probably were dealt around four pocket pairs and you hit three sets. That is not statistically unusual because it is such a small sample. It happens every single day to multiple players, with a perfectly random deal. But a player flopping 21 sets out of 30 contiguous pocket pairs has probably not happened in the history of the earth and probably never will.

The 3 of 4 case has a chance of 1 in 164 trials.
The 21 of 30 case has a chance of about 1 in 5 trillion.
Study this difference carefully, it is instructive.

Be more careful with your claims. I'll consider my bet declined then.

Last edited by spadebidder; 04-23-2009 at 12:58 PM. Reason: clarity
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 12:52 PM   #2716
SooperFish24
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,028
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
That's the whole point, and this is typical rigtard thinking. In an hour you probably were dealt around four pocket pairs and you hit three sets. That is not statistically unusual because it is such a small sample. It happens every single day to someone, with a perfectly random deal. But getting 21 sets out of 30 contiguous pocket pairs has probably not happened in the history of the earth and probably never will.

The 3 of 4 case has a chance of 1 in 164 trials.
The 21 of 30 case has a chance of about 1 in 5 trillion.

Be more careful with your claims. I'll consider my bet declined then.
Ill consider my bet declined as well then.
SooperFish24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 02:44 PM   #2717
Username^^
veteran
 
Username^^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Reviewing hands in my dreams
Posts: 2,784
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

ok, i rewieved my stats on sharkscope. And i have a negative ROI on sngs only on 1$ limit. And i think this m8 be due to a 25c rake they are charging for sngs.
Username^^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 03:38 PM   #2718
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Username^^ View Post
ok, i rewieved my stats on sharkscope. And i have a negative ROI on sngs only on 1$ limit. And i think this m8 be due to a 25c rake they are charging for sngs.
That and the fact that you are a lousy poker player.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 03:59 PM   #2719
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
The 3 of 4 case has a chance of 1 in 164 trials.
The 21 of 30 case has a chance of about 1 in 5 trillion.
I went back and did the math accurately instead of roughly and the actual number are 1 in 174, and 1 in 7.22 trillion. The point is the same.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2009, 07:53 PM   #2720
crazytrain98
banned
 
crazytrain98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 40
was paradise poker rigged back in the day

I dont write on here much, but was curious if anyone had problems with paradise poker back in the 2002-2004 range. i read all these crazy poker is rigged threads on here and brings back some memories that pushed me away from online poker for a long time.

back when i first stared playing online poker i had some crazy run ins with some players who i though quite possibly were able to see my hole cards. this is like the whole ub ap scandal. players playing and raiseing with hands most people wouldnt play on the blinds. somehow knowing what was coming on every turn of the card. id flop a great hand and raise only to be raised and reraised all the was to the river just to get beat every single time. every time this guy was in a hand he won no matter what i was holding or what was on the board. no this was 7 years ago, but what really got me concerned is when i reported the info to paradise poker my computer would get a trojan virus upon logging on to their poker site. i then would have to take the normal steps to remove such virus only to log on to thier site and get the virus again. thats the point where i figured the site must be behind it. i stopped playing online and stuck with b&m rooms. i was just curious if anyone else had problems with their site back then. to me it made no sense. i have a hard time trusting sites now in the belief that those players were actually paradise poker employees. this was in the 20/40 and 30/60 lhe games.
crazytrain98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 12:06 PM   #2721
PokErasmus
centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 110
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Yeah, you're right, I just get so tired of that being used as the example of a "rigged" poker site. It's a shame they hurt the reputation of online poker as a whole, which by and large is operated fairly.
Why anyone should assume that online poker is operated fairly?

The online gaming industry is not under scrutiny by financial or gaming authorities whatsoever, basic operation control such as auditing, validating the software, access control and communication channel integrity are not in place, and those who claim their site is audited elegantly forget to disclose audit details such as audit methodology, when, how and what has been audited.

As crime and dishonest business operation is not unknown to mankind (partly that’s why the society regulates tax, stock exchange, gaming, etc. ) there is no reason to believe that malicious components do not compromise fair gaming in the unregulated and uncontrolled gaming software environment. It is unlikely that in the universe of Madoff, Enron and Ponzi the unregulated, partly mob operated, partly Costa Rica based online gaming industry is the Theresa Mother of the economy. Yes, online gaming companies might honest and innocent like Joan of Arc's, but until their honesty is verified by a legislation driven regular auditing process we can’t say that they operate fairly and it’s not surprising if the public indeed believes that the kwhole thing is f....g rigged.
PokErasmus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 12:07 PM   #2722
Markusgc
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Markusgc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Noodles, Hockey & Punk Rock!
Posts: 8,788
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Why anyone should assume that online poker is operated fairly?
why should we believe you're not just another rigtard gimmick account?
Markusgc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 12:16 PM   #2723
Rek
HUZA 2008
 
Rek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 10,034
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokErasmus View Post
Why anyone should assume that online poker is operated fairly?

The online gaming industry is not under scrutiny by financial or gaming authorities whatsoever, basic operation control such as auditing, validating the software, access control and communication channel integrity are not in place, and those who claim their site is audited elegantly forget to disclose audit details such as audit methodology, when, how and what has been audited.

As crime and dishonest business operation is not unknown to mankind (partly that’s why the society regulates tax, stock exchange, gaming, etc. ) there is no reason to believe that malicious components do not compromise fair gaming in the unregulated and uncontrolled gaming software environment. It is unlikely that in the universe of Madoff, Enron and Ponzi the unregulated, partly mob operated, partly Costa Rica based online gaming industry is the Theresa Mother of the economy. Yes, online gaming companies might honest and innocent like Joan of Arc's, but until their honesty is verified by a legislation driven regular auditing process we can’t say that they operate fairly and it’s not surprising if the public indeed believes that the kwhole thing is f....g rigged.
A couple of things:

  1. Who is Theresa's mother?
  2. Just remind me, where were Madoff, Enron and Ponzi regulated?
Rek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 12:37 PM   #2724
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk1133
Why anyone should assume that online poker is operated fairly?
Because they use their common sense, knowledge of logical argument, probability maths and lack of any evidence whatsoever to come to an intelligent view of the likelyhood of online poker being unfair.

Unlike rigtards who think the fact that they've lost a few hands in a row means that there must be a massive conspiracy to rig on line poker against them.

Quote:
but until their honesty is verified by a legislation driven regular auditing process we can’t say that they operate fairly and it’s not surprising if the public indeed believes that the kwhole thing is f....g rigged.
You can forget about OLP being generally regulated (unless you could get every country in the world to introduce compatible legislation) because if any country did so any affected sites would simply move elsewhere.

And if any country tried to stop people playing on sites not within their own jurisdiction the WTO would be down on them like a ton of bricks.

And that is an organisation with a great deal more clout that the UN on a good day.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2009, 12:40 PM   #2725
qpw
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pulling the tails of rigtards
Posts: 4,019
Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rek View Post
  1. Who is Theresa's mother?
You remember Hilda, surely?

Nice woman. Used to go out with that insurance salesman.

Had a Chihuahua until it got run over by the carnival pirate. Got herself a one legged budgie.

You must remember.
qpw is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive