Shouldn't you be playing on your trusted poker site of choice instead of trolling the great rigged debate? If you don't believe some online poker sites are rigged, then why are you even in this forum. You have nothing to gain here. In fact, you're just wasting money by not playing. I think most of you are trolling this forum, because you're insecure in your beliefs that everything is on the up and up, or you're at work trying to waste time by trolling. I have requested my last 10 MTT HH's from FT. I will post after I receive. Perhaps supers are not a good example, I will concede this point, since it's a game Howard made up.

I have requested HH's smart mouth. They won't give me enough to convince anyone of anything though.

Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.

This is an automated response to confirm we've received your email, and a representative will respond to you as soon as possible.

Please be advised there's no need to reply to this email.

Thank you for your patience.

Regards,

Full Tilt Poker Support

The fact that you're just now learning about hand histories in this thread totally legitimatizes your argument.

Lux, lux, lux, you are one ignorant SOB. Did I say I just learned what HH are? How would I know what the two H's stand for in the gentlemen's request otherwise. But go ahead and make unfounded claims about what I do and don't know, just proving your own ignorance.

Spadebidder had a page up with some analysis, but there isn't one site you just go to and see all of the analysis that has been done. Players are constantly analyzing their hand histories and yet nothing mathematically significant indicating a rigged deal has ever been found. And trust me, there is enough data to rule out variance.

Here is what Spadebidder posted earlier on, which is spot on.

Yes I know all about spacebidder, and I know that if you click his link it takes you to google. I'm not a newb. 10 to 1 says I've been playing online poker longer than most of you, since the paradise days in fact. I'm asking you guys to provide me evidence to back up your claims, just like you asked me, saying it's out there somewhere isn't good enough especially when several pros believe it's rigged as well.

Logic fail.

Have fun trolling. How many accounts have you created?

ok, let me re-state, jeez, I don't trust what you, a forum troll, tells me. No offense, but I don't know you. Provide a link, otherwise it's all heresay. The mouth knows it's rigged and so does Jason Young. The mouth is a sponsored FT pro and says it's rigged. Logic succeed. Comprehension fail.

I hate always going back to this metaphor, but sometimes it is the only way to get it through to people who don't understand what actual logic is.

If I say you beat your wife, do you think I should prove you beat your wife or do you think it's up to you to prove that you don't beat your wife? Same thing here, you are claiming it is rigged. I'm saying the non-existence of evidence suggesting it is rigged shows that it most likely isn't. It's up to you to provide proof that it is. So far you are failing hard at that.

I'll ask again, how many accounts have you gone through on here?

Honestly? If you are at all serious you should skim this thread from the beginning and zero in on the substantive posts. There was a time, before they got sick of writing long tracks of explanation and being constantly ignored, when the regs in this thread (who you call shills) posted a great deal of value in how to approach this question. Now, its mainly one liners, but the meat is there if you want to dig.

This problem is really about critical thinking. Forget about the argument that sites wouldn't do it - I don't think there's many here who would say that that's the strongest argument. One could probably never prove 100% that these sites aren't rigged - but there are a lot of things that can be done to probe whether there is any actual evidence of it. These will all involve statistical analysis of handhistories, and not youtube videos or just "noticing" what's going on at the tables.

Anyhow, the info is in this thread, but you have to go back pretty far. It will be worthwhile though, even though its long. The substantive posts are easy to spot since they are often quite long, and you'll see who the relevant posters are.

This is my only account? Why do you keep asking that?

Cool, I'll believe you. It is pretty common for rigtards to create multiple accounts and talk to themselves. I can't see why'd you'd lie since any mod can see if you have more than one account.

Do you understand the analogy I presented?

Your posting style is a whole lot like the other "new" posters that have been saying the same things in this thread the past week.

The fact that 20 of your 23 posts are in here and in the past what, 12 hours, despite registering in June also makes it kind of suspicious.

fair enough Arout, but you would think that somebody somewhere would at least have a WORKING link that has a bunch of data mining as long as this debate has been going on. To read through this thread would probably make me drop about 10 IQ points, so I was hoping that ONE LINK exists...that someone could readily provide. Apparently, that's too much to ask, and it would be hella tedious for someone to compose in retrospect. I will dig through the thread.

ok, well sorry about the unfortunate coincidence, but there's nothing to be suspicous about, you might want to lay off the weed, I hear it causes paranoia.

If you are a gimmick then whatever - I don't really care to figure out who is genuine and who is not, so I will play along that you are genuine.



You are a newb. The fact you may be a geezer does not change it.

You clearly had no idea how to save HHs to your computer

You clearly have never used a piece of tracking software

You get swayed by selective memories of bad beats

You ask for evidence to disprove a negative over and over which is a logic fail.


Can I prove to you it is not rigged? Probably not because you want to believe it is rigged for whatever reasons (likely to rationalize your underperformance).


What you should do (and likely will never do) is the following:

- Join a video training site and watch videos on the games you want to play. You will just see rational, logical approaches to the game and no weird paranoia stuff.

- Get trials of Holdem Manager and learn how to use it in a basic manner. You can then look up all of your weird gut feel situations and see after enough hands that it pretty much works out (long term math is annoying in that manner)

- If you are poor then do instant bankroll promos

- Join the Full Tilt Acadamy, or Intellipoker or whatever the rooms do for online newbies now.

- Stop whining. Nobody likes a whiner. Purchase a set of testicles for FPPs if you must from Stars.



Most of the guys you are arguing with do not play that much, so they are picking over and over on your huge logic gaps and lack of any math skills, and they are correct.

Take what they are suggesting and add my suggestions and maybe you can switch from being a riggie to an actual player.


These are the results of the last riggie who listened to me and worked with us and dropped his riggie ways. He stated with us at game 100, and even though he had some good runs and bad runs, he learned that in the end it is just about playing better than the droolers out there and playing some volume. Math does the rest.

Is $500-600 life changing money? No, but it sure is a lot better than sitting around whining about 2 outers all day while not actually working on one's game.


Be like this fellow and start winning or remain the same and continue whining. Your choice, and I genuinely don't care which choice you make.




All the best.

this..
read it...
then re-read it...

Monteroy, now we're talking, you provide some good information and advice here. Some of your assumptions are incorrect, let me state my poker history briefly if you will allow. I am in the green/black in MTT's on Full Tilt of roughly 6K, this is mainly due to one tournament that I cashed for about 8K in, 3rd place i believe. I had to withdraw this money at the time to pay some bills. I have played exactly one live professional tournament in my life. It was at the 2008 wsop, a 1500 NLHE, I cashed in the top 30 out of around 2600 people. I once ran 20$ into 4K playing PLO on full tilt, then negative variance/some tilt/poor bk mgmt took me back down to 0. I have considered Galfond's training site Bluefire and I have watched all the free videos they offer, but haven't signed up yet. I have 4 books that I have read and studied. (Super System 2, Ace on the River, Hellmuth's first book, and a sklansky book. Over the last 4 days I was brutalized on FT. I have requested my hand histories which i will post here when FT sends them to me. Let's keep communicating. Thanks for your post.

Damn, I've always wanted to be dealt three cards before!

I have created 2 HH folders on my desktop, pstars and ft, and now they will be saved going forward

Well GL to you

omgomgomg ftp has pineapple?

We are not really "talking" in the sense that you are looking for, but here is my assessment of you and your poker history.

You are likely a decent guy who got lucky in a couple MTTs (congrats for that) who is way out of his league playing online except for casual fun stakes.

If you want to know if I am simply saying that as a taunt, I am not, In the past year I have looked at over 1,000 coaching and stake applications and believe me when I say I have seen everything.

I am not quite sure what your "poker goals" are , but I will tell you that until you update the way you think you simply cannot compete long term, however that does not mean you cannot play and get lucky and win some money now and then ( I posted a graph a few pages back of a guy who won 6k early on who may have wanted to quit while ahead).

Here is what is holding you back:

- You are not being realistic with your goals and your ability. Are you a donk at the moment online? To be blunt, yeah, however with some effort you can actually become fairly competitive at the lower to mid stakes, so what you need to do is let go of the beliefs that you are a good player who is unlucky or a victim of a rig (not true) and accept what you actually are and do what you need to do to improve if that is important to you. All this "wah wah I lost to runner runner 7 7 in a hand I remember" talk is what droolers say. When I see someone talking like that, all I hope is that they keep playing.

Note, I am serious when I say that not everyone needs to play for money or to grind. Playing for fun or casually is perfectly fine, but be realistic on your goals and abilities and if you are playing for fun then go for it and have a good time including whining about bad beats, complaining about rigging and whatever else makes you happy.

Stop posting in a rigged thread filled with people who are paranoid or like arguing with paranoid people. Go to the beginners sections or the sections on the games you play and read valid posts. You will see basically no rigged silliness in the strategy forums, because actual players do not really consider that an issue.


Do that and follow the list I mentioned and enjoy poker in a realistic manner.

maximumpwnership... if you can predict what cards are coming out... then how have you not used this to your advantage to win millions of dollars?