The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition - Page 104 - Internet Poker

You're being childish now. Are you going to change your parameters every time I find an example for you?

But 2nd nut flush < nut flush < straight flush, that don't mean nothin', huh?

If you really think it's a fact there won't be a showdown like the one you've already admitted isn't evidence of any sort at any B&M cardroom in a full calendar year then you don't have the grasp of statistics you've previously claimed.

But even if there isn't, there could be 3 next year, so what does that say?

Cmon what d you expect when you ask question s like You do know how many B&M s there are.

Yes its an incredible hand. It would equal or better the other hand if 2 str8 flushes hit on turn and river.

Im not so sure there will be a B&M hand where 3 guys get it all in on the flop, 1 with nut flush and 2 with a set (which is actually fairly uncommon in itself) then both sets make quads by the river. Thats the rareset of the rare.

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04-20-2009 , 07:41 PM

#2577

SooperFish24

adept

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,028

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monteroy

Crazy as this may sound, my theory is that if it is rigged then the sites may choose to actually avoid the extreme seen it once a year type hands that everyone will remember and talk about when they do their rigging.

Kind of like how car thieves tend to avoid the cars filled with cops carrying machine guns when choosing their targets.

People really need to stick to better rigged theory selection.

When are you stop taking what people post and twisting it into your ridiculous scenarios.

How does a thief attempting to steal a cop car filled with armed officers compare to 3 guys getting it in on a flop where they all have strong hands.

Your scenario would be like a guy going all in on the turn with 7 2 offsuit on a 4 to the flush board and he has no flush card or pair or draw vs 3 guys who ve already shoved.

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04-20-2009 , 07:46 PM

#2578

Markusgc

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Serious question, Sooper - have you got a few pints in ya?

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04-20-2009 , 07:50 PM

#2579

SooperFish24

adept

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,028

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markusgc

Serious question, Sooper - have you got a few pints in ya?

LOL no but I ve got some nice sunburn and a slight headache so Im off to bed.

See Ya.

OP is rigged IMO!

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04-20-2009 , 07:54 PM

#2580

Monteroy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SooperFish24

You seemed to miss my point so I will put it in a nice simple list

1) You post a crazy hand that everyone will remember and talk about

2) You assume a crazy hand proves something

3) I point out that if it was rigged they would actually probably avoid crazy freak hands since everyone will notice it

4) I give an analogy to show a similarly flawed method of crime (which you did not grasp)

5) You yelled a lot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markusgc

Serious question, Sooper - have you got a few pints in ya?

Kind of agree. You generally grasp simple concepts better then tonight.

All the best.

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04-20-2009 , 08:30 PM

#2581

dbcooper279

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by SooperFish24

We ll never play an infinite No. of poker hands though so you cant bring infinite into it.

By the very fact that the incident has a non-zero probability that it must happen, given a never-ending set of trials. Even though it is impossible to play an infinite set of hands, the probabilities are not that small where you would expect to need 10^16 number of trials to see one result.

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04-20-2009 , 09:21 PM

#2582

bluesbassman

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,362

LOL at those who think the deal in online poker is fair. Conclusive evidence to the contrary has already been posted in this thread, including some by me.

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04-20-2009 , 09:28 PM

#2583

Markusgc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesbassman

LOL at those who think the deal in online poker is fair. Conclusive evidence to the contrary has already been posted in this thread, including some by me.

must be a level since I can't find any previous posts by you ITT. at least not under this account.

and there certainly isn't any evidence here at all, either.

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04-20-2009 , 10:51 PM

#2584

senjitsu

banned

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcooper279

By the very fact that the incident has a non-zero probability that it must happen, given a never-ending set of trials.

conceptual error

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04-20-2009 , 10:59 PM

#2585

dbcooper279

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,678

Quote:

By the very fact that the incident has a non-zero probability that it must happen, given a never-ending set of trials.

Quote:

Originally Posted by senjitsu

conceptual error

Try reading the rest of the sentence.

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04-20-2009 , 11:01 PM

#2586

senjitsu

banned

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 3,058

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcooper279

Try reading the rest of the sentence.

i did. given a never ending # of trials, the chance of failing to get a particular non-impossible result is infinitisimally small, but its not zero. read up on the st. petersburg game for details.

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04-20-2009 , 11:13 PM

#2587

dbcooper279

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by senjitsu

i did. given a never ending # of trials, the chance of failing to get a particular non-impossible result is infinitisimally small, but its not zero. read up on the st. petersburg game for details.

Since we are dealing with infinite trials, it cannot not happen.

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04-20-2009 , 11:16 PM

#2588

senjitsu

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcooper279

Since we are dealing with infinite trials, it cannot not happen.

sigh

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04-20-2009 , 11:23 PM

#2589

dbcooper279

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by senjitsu

sigh

It's a limiting problem, I see. My bad.

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04-20-2009 , 11:59 PM

#2590

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Infinite trials won't happen in lotteries or cards, but consider this. The number of unique ways a 10-handed holdem table can be dealt (10 sets of hole cards plus 5 community cards) exceeds the number of hands that will ever be dealt in the world from now until the Sun burns out and the Earth no longer exists. There are deals that will NEVER be seen in poker. Saying an infinite number of trials means that anything must happen is purely theoretical (and false btw) and doesn't apply to the real world, or even close to it.

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04-21-2009 , 12:13 AM

#2591

batair

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BitterChris

That Madoff guy scammed his investors and the authorities for decades, and made his books look genuine, so it's not impossible to evade detection with large-scale fraud.

If sites are cheating people in a undetectable way there's not much a player can do anyway, it will take an insider. Coming in here saying, I have a feeling online poker is rigged or a lot big companies steel does nothing. In the end it will take the same thing they caught bernie with, proof.

Last edited by batair; 04-21-2009 at 12:24 AM. Reason: .

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04-21-2009 , 01:23 AM

#2592

dbcooper279

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,678

If sites were cheating players, someone would find out upon statistical analysis of the hands that something wasn't up to spec. Thousands of players have analyzed millions of hands, and so far, nothing is out of the ordinary.

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04-21-2009 , 03:35 AM

#2593

qpw

banned

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcooper279

Ever deal with limits? Play an infinite number of lottery games and you will win, eventually.

Actually, if you play an infinite number of lottery games you will win the jackpot an infinite number of times.

Isn't maths fun?

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04-21-2009 , 05:30 AM

#2594

SooperFish24

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Quote:

Originally Posted by batair

Assuming it is rigged how many insiders would be in on it. The Owners and the very well paid RNG/Software programmers. Im sure the owners wouldnt own up and the programmer wouldnt want to spoil his paycheck so I cant really forsee any insider coming forward.

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04-21-2009 , 05:33 AM

#2595

Rek

HUZA 2008

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 10,033

Quote:

Originally Posted by qpw

Actually, if you play an infinite number of lottery games you will win the jackpot an infinite number of times.

Isn't maths fun?

This can't be true because you would lose an infinite number of times. Rigged IMO

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04-21-2009 , 05:34 AM

#2596

SooperFish24

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbcooper279

Thats because the more hands played the more likely it will even out. What s needed are lots of smaller databases under the same circumstances analysed.
For example lots of DB checked for the first 20k hands or 100 SNGs after joining a site. Then you could check the cashout curse with lots of small DB results after a cashout.

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04-21-2009 , 05:35 AM

#2597

SooperFish24

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rek

Rigged IMO

Glad your starting to come around Rek.

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04-21-2009 , 05:36 AM

#2598

Rek

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SooperFish24

Glad your starting to come around Rek.

Yeah your logic is persuasive.

Quote

04-21-2009 , 07:13 AM

#2599

qpw

banned

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,019

Quote:

Originally Posted by SooperFish24

Glad your starting to come around Rek.

We already know that the game is rigged.

It's got nothing to do with the RNG, though.

The game is seriously rigged in favour of those who understand probability maths.