in before merge, because I've never said that before!

Because the nosebleeds have enough players, and durrrrr doesn't want anyone to come in and threaten him

pokersrigged23

tl;dr

Are you saying that on line poker may be rigged?

If so, I think that someone may have mentioned that suspicion before.

Your #3 is clearly wrong. A computer itself can't be totally random (that's why they call it a PRNG when you're dealing with the built-in random function), but if you take external inputs, you can get true randomness. It takes some external hardware to do this, but it is most definitely possible, and so you can have true randomness in on-line poker.

rest was tl;dr but that one stood out to me

A lot of interesting, well-thought out points, you've clearly put a large amount of time into considering the subject.

One concern though, you spoke about sites 'investing' in good-looking people and then mentioned Tom Dwan........ methinks you must be looking at a different Tom Dwan than the rest of us

Total BS.

This guy is totally spot on. Which is why I can't wait for this bill to be signed, the bots, collusion and cheating has been going on for too long

Stop being results oriented.

It is insane, from your perspective. Experienced poker players actually explaining in detail why they believe FTP is rigged without 20 societal rejects chiming in with their bought and paid for opinions? It’s the very definition of insanity. Of course, I see it now.

How do threads like this not get locked and then threads about ppl talking about variance get insta locked.

Collusion is a completely separate topic from the whole rigged thing, mainly because it obviously happens all the time. You actually don't have 1st amendment rights on any privately owned website, FYI. What "3% off the top" are you referencing? And yet after doing all this work, you provide us with...a wall of text. Unless the cheating's done by Blizzard, it's unrelated to this thread. Of course there's collusion, a bunch of it has been exposed by 2+2ers, so I don't see why you're setting up some weird strawman where no one here thinks collusion takes place. The amount coming in can never be less than the amount going out, let's see if you can figure out why. You've done months of research and you're still spouting this? Hardware RNGs use random input to generate random numbers, and every reputable site uses one. Online poker isn't illegal in the US, and the US is one of at least 189 countries on earth, so the fact that they're not subject to US law is irrelevant, unless you think all 188 other countries are lawless.
It's a good thing Tom Dwan never played poker on any other sites before FTP even existed, or won just as much on other sites, or your example would look pretty dumb... $35/hr. and 100% rakeback. Yeah, those dastardly FTP pros pushing everyone around. That must be why Gus Hansen is the biggest loser in online history (under one SN, anyway). I'm not really following how this is related to rigging at all, tbh. Ditto for your 8th point. No they're not. Everything in a casino is there to screw you. They even rake the poker games, which you seem to think is the devil's doing.
I also can't wait for the bill to be signed, and for the sites to be pretty much exactly the same, just to see your reaction.

Welcome to the club. The collusion/cheating, by itself, should keep anyone who is honest out of cash games and single-table sitngos online.

Of course, the deniers will jump all over you for your assertions about the dealing programs, but you need only prove this to yourself by doing the basic analyses of flops and boards, and you don't even need much time to assemble the necessary data quantity to prove it to your own satisfaction.

The guy said no true randomness is possible. If thats true a bill cant help that.

Yes, brother. I agree. There appears to be some truth to the idea that you are being outdrawn on at FTP more then you should be, according to the pot odds. If you’re interested in reading the opinions of a number of poker players with more years of poker experience under their belts than you and I combined, both at live play and on the internet, and all aspects of poker play, not just SNG's - check out the posts on this blog: http://fulltiltpokerrigged.blogspot....31942233872942

Important: Scroll down past the first post from the guy who claims to have been instructed to rig poker software for FTP, which I agree may be a fabrication. (It could, however, also be authentic. But you’ll never get that from the other side). Now start to read the posts. You’ll find the experiences playing at FTP surprisingly similar to your own, aside from your fixation on the 3 outers.

I’ve read mountains of these posts, and to be honest, you’re the only one I’ve seen who has noticed a rash of 3 outers against you. For me, the number of outs wasn’t the issue. It was the fact that I was being outdrawn with highly favored hands at an incredulous rate. But it felt the same as it does for you with the 3 outers: like BS. And I eventually came to realize – after it continued happening for a long period of time, and I began to read that it was happening to many others, as well - that there was something wrong with the software at FTP, either intentionally or otherwise.

That interview was from a few years ago when he was publishing a book, and I think much of what he said was to arouse interest in the subject of online games security. There a few "wtf?" moments, for example (paraphrasing) "congress just passed a law to make [online poker] illegal in the US, and all that happened is it moved to Canada". I found an excerpt from his book and it would appear that he does know what he's talking about from a technical security aspect, but I think the interview was just sensationalizing to sell more books.

fml I've been a winning player on ftp for a little over a year. Now I find out the sites rigged in my favor. wtf

Will there ever be any examples of a non-freeroll where the 'hero' actually plays halfway decently? Or will all the rigtards keep playing poorly and keep blaming random chance for their bad play?

Only time will tell...

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Edit: not that a few examples will prove anything...forgot who said this originally, but the plural of anecdote is not data.

ydward,

1. No one gives a **** about freeroll HHs, stop posting them, especially unconverted.
2. Have you ever considered not limping every single hand you play?

gordias - Are you a winning player? If you are not then I think you have clearly figured out how to get that turned around. Stop getting your hand in as a favorite. The site is setting it up, right? So why aren't you adjusting your play to take full advantage of this and make a million-zillion dollars.

Anyway, go ahead and post some of your hand histories where these terrible injustices are happening and people will be happy to look at them.

Also, post some of your figures for how often you lose a 50/50, 60/40 and 75/25 type battle (and also how often you win such encounters too).

lol @ avatar changes being recorded in HH

It seems the main lucid point in that tldr is that collusion happens in online poker. Wow, that's a news flash that nobody knew, we better inform the sites. I wonder if live players ever collude?

Wow, a riggers manifesto. Awesome. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Unfortunately it's an oft-used misquote that has been popularized. The original quote is,
"The plural of anecdote is data." Raymond Wolfinger, Stanford professor, 1970.
The original was often quoted by Senator Moynihan in published sources years before the first attributions of the modified version were ever published.

It's a nice aphorism either way and both are useful in different contexts, but the original is more accurate. That doesn't mean a small amount of data proves anything.

Eh, I can see the point of the way you (and Dr. Wolfinger) said it. Carefully collected anecdotes, yes. Cherrypicked anecdotes (like the HHs the rigtards post here), no. There is truth in other version, as you said.

Thank god you made this post. I mean I just wish I had known you years ago. I could've prevented THIS from happening:



EDIT: FYI ydward, the vast majority of that is on Full Tilt, the site that you can't beat freerolls on.

Get beat by two 4 of a kind in one night in one hour. How many times can people boat on the river before I stop putting my money in. Give you the nuts on the flop and then of course the board pairs, just so happens somebody boats. When you flop the nut straight, the flush is coming, but it never works for me. If you've won money congrats, I don't know how. Action flops all the time its crazy. Why pick me to lose all the hands, I don't know. I guess i'm a donkey. Sure that's what you all will say.