At this point it is obvious that you are either mentally challenged or betting that guests who will read here will do it superficially and note only your horse shìt then go back to playing, cause hey 'Monteroy guy is so smart he shut that guy down for sure. We will pretend like we are not fleeced by superbots and let the random do it's job'.

No more riggies cause no more players. Enough is enough. When you are weak at poker and get outplayed you see it and try to improve. When you clearly improve with years and prove it to yourself live, then return and see the ridiculous money grabbing bots online it's pointless to continue there just like it is pointless to try to find an explanation. The only thing that matters is trying to save new victims that are just starting in online and wise up that something is not right. Sites like Trustpilot made me stop, this forum does not, it only creates a lot of mud and confussion. I remember coming here just when Pokerstars was starting to feel weird af. I'd read some theory that was beggining to make sense then see 3-4-5 other 'smart guys' attack and bash him. Then I thought, yeah these guys seem more literate, maybe it's just mind playing tricks from bad beats.
Pokersite owners are wise to use you here, it works, up to some point. All the keywords lead here in search engines so clearly a lot of work was put in optimization to be the first stop for someone who starts seeing shady stuff at tables.

As for creating multiple accounts. You probably have seen a couple riggies create a couple accounts but exagerate it a lot, making it sound like everyone has up to a dozen just to vote in that stupid poll. I don't even remember what email I used to create mine, good thing Chrome knows and remembers everything, if it was to lose my login info I couldn't care less and would probably not even return. Let alone create a new account lol. So your exageration strengthens my belief that the votes are very very close to general opion of players and reflects reality. More probably shills onflated the NO size since the whole point of 2+2 is to shill and get a bone from masters.

You know it and we know it, actual form of online poker is dying day by day and owners tune up to their greasy nature to grab as much as they can till lights shut off.

Even in a casino, the vast majority of poker players have lost more money than they've won at the game. I don't think that anyone with a grain of sense believes that the fact that a large majority of players are net losers is somehow evidence that brick-and-mortar poker games are rigged.

If (hypothetically) 80% of online players are net losers, a fair portion of them will attribute their losing because a site is rigged, rather than because they aren't as good as their opponents at poker. Hence, this containment thread.

Any and all serious accusations of fraud or whatever against a poker site finds its way eventually into its own thread where it is taken seriously by the 2+2 community.

As much as some riggies believe that Monteroy and a_dewd and Bobo are shills*, it is a fact that all three have helped in some way to expose actual cheating and/or incompetence by various online poker sites.


*I, on the other hand, really am a shill. I get paid $24.99 (plus S&H) per post to mock, ridicule and insult riggies.

You have it exactly wrong. I encourage riggies to be creative and fun with their beliefs. Here is an example of a riggie that was quite entertaining to read. He was so good they gave him a sticky in the probability forum

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...tally-1706112/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...41/?highlight=

Look at his posts and the reactions they got, then look at posts of people like you. Boring! You are the definition of a standard little whiner. That's why nobody puts any value on your stuff (even entertainment value) when you complain.

Explanation was simple - the game moved past you. That is why it is correct that you quit.


If having "confussion" and feeling weird and reading a silly theory that is "beggining" to make sense causes you to quit then use that as needed. Does not matter the reason - people like you should quit.


"Pokersite owners" do not care at all about fringy threads like this in outdated forums. Riggies are a nothingburger issue outside of riggie threads.

Bobo can certainly give more info on this, but if he did then you would say he is in on it. The poll does not matter, other than it is comical that the riggie side, with a lot of multi voting still cannot get it to even 40%. No need to "exagerate" this, as the poll does not matter other than being a source of amusement.


Nobody else would care either. Do you remember any specific riggie from even a few months ago? I don't.

You can believe whatever "opion" you like about "exageration" and shills that "onflated." No difference to me, but if it makes you feel better and encourages you to quit an activity you fail at - then that result is optimal for you.

Whiny riggies have said that for 15 years at this point, and they will keep saying it to rationalize why they fail at something where others succeed.

All the best.

15 years ago or even 10 years ago was not that bad but with the advancement of technology things got out of control. First huds sucked all the fun from the game. Then collusion bot farms. Stired the online poker ship to a wrong direction even if the majority was not happy and complaining, the owners listened to top of the crop who were bringing huge rake compared to recs. They realised something is wrong when recs left, they screwed the pros and cut down rakeback to almost nothing. Pros got out with whatever they had. Now the last step, degen fish brought by casino ads and house bots. Shame, greed ruined everything.

People have said variations of that since the mid 2000s, maybe earlier. Coaching sites were going to destroy the industry yadda yadda. Same whine told by different people who could not compete, nothing more.

You already said you would not care if you never came back here. No one else will care as well. You cannot compete in this industry. Move on with your life at this point. Or don't - no difference to me, but you are essentially a replaceable filler riggie. Hopefully some entertaining ones will show up!

All the best.

Come on now. The vast majority of players are losers? The amount of "players" that lose in a casino is irrelevant. The amount of poker "regulars" is very different. I assure you the vast majority of Poker regulars are not losers in live poker.

Then how do you explain the thousands of people that claim to be big net cash game winners at live poker that lose at online poker?

Fraud and claims of rigging are different. All claims of rigging are directed here.
The moment someone even makes a nickel off of promoting online poker as a fair place to play, they lose all credibility. Like it or not. The posters you mentioned have thousands of posts here and very few in the strategy forums, why?

Keep the change, brother.

Patience is rewarded with live poker. With online poker people need less patience because you play faster. Plus some people can read other people by their body language. You miss that in online poker.

This thread is really meaningless you will always have believers and unbelievers. That's how the Universe works and we belong to the Universe. But there is certainly a truth.
Online poker is not rigged. You really have to play a lot to make some money online. The odds are almost equal these days. You have to play Spin and Go Flash, Spins Ultra or Spin and Gold and the many suck outs will make you think seriously this is not possible!!! Just don't play for long if you don't have your day and you're going to earn at some point.

The only thing to be earned at pokerstars are those stupid reward boxes with $ 0,10 free sports bet, 5x $ 0,01 free spins in casino or a $ 0,25 tourney ticket that will run in 2 weeks and you will likely forget about it. So most probably you will earn a big pile of shít in the end.

I agree that a vast majority of regs are not net losers, but certainly a mere majority of regs are net losers.


Anybody can claim anything; and there are also people who lose at live poker that claim to win at online poker.


fyp

Up until today, have you ever asked them why that is?


Thanks; I can use every penny!

You got any proof of this statement or is this just a hunch?

This would be pretty rare. I know of many many live players that refuse to EVER play online. Do you know of any online players (with a legit casino nearby) that refuse to play live?

No, they are your soulmates. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

Makes sense as many of them would be incapable of beating the online games, and many of them may lack the technical skills to be competitive in that separate game type.

Refuse as in never play a live event ever - not really. Refuse in the sense that playing live is something they do once in a while for fun, but they have no interest in sitting next to smelly, whiny dudes for hours on end - yeah, plenty of players like that, some with casinos that have live games that they get to within 10 minutes.

Not quite sure what your point is here. Live games have always been much softer, so there will be people that can grind out some money in those games that cannot be competitive in online play. The speed of the games and being around a lot of degens in real life is not a strength of the live games, and that was the case before Covid. Covid certainly has not helped the live scene. Definitely helped the online scene.

Yeah several people in my study group don't ever play live, or at least they play maybe once or twice a year for fun. They tell me they don't like how slow the live scene is (15-25 hands per hour as opposed to 75+ online per table). It's more because of that than anything else. Oh and they don't like having to travel to play.

terrible argument

because of this (i know others who feel the same way)

and this

many of the people who play online prefer to just work on their own at a grind station without the commute or socialization and it allows them to spread the roll and reduce variance with lower stakes but more tables/hands

but more importantly, the main reason why live players rarely play online is that the level of competition is much higher. I can casually walk into a casino and do well in 2/5 without having played nor studied for years but if I were to try to beat nl25 online right now I don't think I could do it right now unless i did a lot of study and coaching to fix some leaks from father time

Just a hunch. It would also depend on how one defines "reg".

I have never played live, even though I lived less than 20 miles from a Hawaiian Gardens.

I don't know any of these people personally.

Just a hunch huh? Well I got hunches too. I got a hunch online poker is rigged. You see how this works?

Can I ask why?


OK then how come YOU don't provide any strategy advice?

You can play faster online but if online players are truly stronger, than your win rate is probably better live. 1 good soft 2/5 game is better than 4 tough 25NL games, is it not?

There's no way any regular (if we define a regular as someone who plays more than 2X a week or makes a significant portion of their income from poker) simply chooses to play online when live games are available.

Are live games weaker? A lot of people feel this way. But I can show many online players, at least at lower stakes with very poor VPIP/PFR statistics, either too tight or too loose. I don't really think low stakes online is too tough. But it's all the setup hands and irregularities in the odds that makes them much tougher than they should be.

How great are the live games if you do not want to just play NL cash games? How about if you just want to play for an hour at a time a couple times a day?

Seems you have your little thing going in the softer live games - keep at it. It suits your needs. Seems you do not quite get that your perspective may not be a fit for everyone else, even when multiple reasons were given to you why some prefer online games to live ones. With all that said, I still do not get what your point is meant to be - if you want to do the live vs online debate then start the 1000th thread to discuss that topic and pretend you are bringing a fresh new insight to that choice. Pretty much everyone says the live games are quite a bit softer, but if you want to make a case that online players are weaker then that could be entertaining, so go for it, though do that in a new thread as it has nothing to do with riggie stuff.

All the best.

I said that many players claimed to be winners in live games and losers online and Lagtight insinuated those people were lying.

And I am saying you have no proof that live games are "softer" just a certain hunch or feel. So making accusations without evidence is perfectly fine when it suits you. Hypocrite.

Pretty stupid and general statement, no regard to the gross exaggeration of me having 1000s of posts in this thread.
There are plenty of players that would vouch for my integrity and how much I've helped out with problems. I have turned down over 40K from people for helping them.

Stop with the screechy noises, you clearly have zero credibility and are clueless. Also, lol at the idea that live play is not softer than online.

It's common sense actually.


I named you specifically?

Why would you turn down money from people for helping them if it's legit?

I was about to say the same thing about you.


When did I say otherwise? I said that you can't prove it. Do you need help with your reading comprehension skills?

The difference is that this thread is dedicated to Online Poker Rigginess, so my hunches about the win rates of regs in live games isn't exactly the focus of this thread. My "hunch" would be pretty worthless in a thread dedicated to the win rates of live poker regs.

Several reasons:

I'm not sufficiently bankrolled for live.

Action too slow for me.

I suspect I have a lot of "tells" that would give too much info to players paying attention.


Because I'm a total fish. I single table nanostakes.

But you commented with a "yeah, right" attitude when I said most live players claim to be winning players live and losers online.

Fair enough. These sound like legitimate reasons to play online.

I should have said there are far more live players that don't believe in the credibility of online poker than online poker players that don't believe in the credibility of live poker.

Well, I am just saying, it's very odd that so many of the anti riggy crowd seem to tunnel vision this thread. They make comments that "all we riggies stick together", when it's actually the exact opposite.

That's a fair criticism of my response. In a later post you defined a reg as someone who plays 2x a week and/or makes a good portion of their $$$ from poker. Given that definition of "reg", I would agree that a majority of regs might be in the black.

I agree that few live players claim that live poker is rigged.

What's funny about Riggies is that even though they all agree that online poker is rigged, their various theories often contradict each other.

Also, the most popular rig theory is the " action flop" theory. Which is funny, because that would be one of the WORST ways to rig, because there is rake cap, so tons of money would change hands without the site making a dime!

That's assuming it's a 0 sum game and no players reload. At lower stakes they reload constantly.

It's also assuming that the problems with the software are intentional. That's another issue. I am willing to accept the software problems are a possible result of the poker gaming company's unwillingness to spend money. My evidence on the latter statement is 888 poker's constant crashes and disconnects.

There's a limit to how much they can and will reload. Keeping pots smaller and swapping money back and forth with no big winners means more of it gets eaten up by rake.