I fear I am in grave danger, now that I've revealed the ancient code. If I go radio silent, get Detective Luckbox on the case ASAP please.

What gives you the idea that Bots are omnipotent? In no limit Hold'em they typically grind out a small edge by not making many exploitable mistakes. But the occasional random bot at the table is not a big part of why you are losing.

That's a misrepresentation. Dacy isn't claiming the industry is rigged to target him specifically. And let's not pretend this industry you brag about is squeaky clean. It has been littered with cheating since it's inception.

Dacy has a whole intricate structure created in his mind that he is among those who are a specific target of a rig. Go ahead and ask him if he is a specific target or not, see what he says.

As to the nature of this industry, there definitely is a lot of shady stuff in it, and the frustration I used to have when I would discuss genuine industry issues was that riggies like you would get in the way with your silly beliefs.

Collusion, fraud, bots, bad operators (who steal player money) and more are all issues that riggies tend to not care about in favor of action flops and new player boomswitches and other nonsense. I even posted a genuine investigation into bots recently and literally zero riggies cared. You dismissed it as well.

That is why it was better when your folk got contained here, and no longer got in the way of genuine industry issues. You can make up whatever issues you like in here, as nothing said in this thread has any impact on the industry, so it is also great that riggies like you are conditioned to only post in these threads and are terrified to post your concerns in the real forums that could address them (if they were valid).

Ironic that riggies talk so much about how dirty the industry is, and claim others here cover it up, yet the riggies are the ones who refuse to actually talk about the genuine industry issues when they are posted on this forum, yourself included.

This post was far too long for you to read and understand.

All the best.

Yes, all those things are problems but they’re not for this thread. It could be argued that dodgy RNGs are another shady issue, which you’re dismissing.

There is very little debate going on in that bot ring thread, which has nothing to do with riggies. How do you explain that?

Have a nice day shilling.

Yeah, they are legit issues, and I often participate in those threads. I even start them at times. Riggies like you never participate in them any more (thankfully), whereas before this containment thread people like you cluttered them up all the time with meaningless paranoid theories.



Dismissing? I have a nice huge list of many of your kin and their complaints! I talk to riggies, even you, and that gives them the feedback stimulus they require. Sure, I do it because it makes me laugh at times, and is a good method to turn my brain off (riggies are simple folk), but not fair that you think I dismiss your issues, when I ask all the time for verifiable evidence of them, kind of like how I have shown you several links of proper investigations.

Now, have you or any riggies provided evidence at all? Of course not. Have you and other riggies asked me to "prove it is not rigged" as if that is the way it works? Of course, that is a riggie commandment.

Have I suggested riggies use hand histories to prove their theories. Of course! Have I shown other research done with hand histories that uncovered bots, collusion, soft play etc. Of course! Have any riggies used hand histories to prove anything? Not yet. Well, one riggie posted 2 hands in youtube, so there is that. Guess you posted a couple cherry picked quads hands then butchered the math on it.

You want your theory (whatever it is these days) taken seriously? Provide evidence and post it in a thread separate from a riggie thread. Have I suggested that many times? Of course! Have you dont it. Of course not.



The guy provided pretty solid evidence. Evidence matters. Riggies never provide evidence. That is the explanation, and even you should understand that, though this post was kind of long so you may have not gotten this far with all the words in it.

All the best.

You still haven't caught on, have you?

The thread title is in quotes, cynically. There is no debate when it comes to feelz. All those bad feelz get collected across the site and dumped here. This way they do not take away from serious discussion.

The explanation of why riggies are not in the discussions of real issues is those threads have a lot of evidence and proof. Might as well be written in Sumerian, they just don't understand that foreign language known as math.

Let's get a baseline and maybe work from there. Do you accept rigged RNGs as a possibility (using RNGs here for the sake of brevity) ? Yes or No?

That guy obviously put a bit of effort into exposing a potential bot ring and it was met with a collective yawn from the forum. There is literally nothing happening in that thread, though Dud's plea at the end was kind of cute. Clearly it's not just riggies who are ignoring the issues that you take so seriously.

Whatever Dud. It's been established quite a while ago that you're a useful idiot. Nothing more, nothing less.

Have a nice day shilling.

Except.....the 888 rep forwarded it on to the security team. See? Evidence gets the attention of the network. Feelz? Not so much. You've blabbered for quite some time, made all kinds of claims, and could not even muster a screenshot. For someone as sharp as you are, like an egg, I'd have though even you could muster a screenshot for some hope of saving face

No one gives any credibility to riggie nonsense, not even riggies. If they did, they'd post the evidence. Pokerbrosbusted KNOWS PB is rigged, even bet 100K on it, yet when I offered to take the bet and find parameters......

Feelz dont pay the bills or prove a thing.

I am a legit riggie. I believe online poker is rigged.

And I also care about the problem of bots.

I have a post on here from 2013-2014 talking about how they would find massive amounts of bots on PartyPoker. I even mentioned specific countries. When they started banning hundreds of bot accounts a month about a year ago people didn't really seem to care LOL. Well, do the math a few hundred bot accounts a month for a year now.

I also post about death threats on 888 and I post legit screenshots.

My account was temporarily suspended on 888 for 6 months ive even posted the screenshots and had people saying on Twolplustwo they cant believe it and tried to get my account back.

Well its been 6 months and 888 doesn't even know who I am and has ignored weeks of communication and my account is still closed.

So the scam " runs deep " sort of speak. The rigging takes place at all levels.

Today is a glorious day because we have all the proof we need !!!

The department of Justice has all of the information they need to proceed now .

https://imgur.com/a/sokPS7n - Death threats made to me on 888s tables.

https://imgur.com/a/To1OypS - Person or site controlled bot who threatened me still playing on the network.

https://imgur.com/a/PGil9Fq - 888s apologies lols.

https://imgur.com/a/oPlRJ12 - Screenshot of My account still closed after 6months is up. Just for nothing else but reporting death threats that's all


https://imgur.com/zbfRdbN - Its not the 1000s of bots on Party or 888 but it looks like a new micro limit MTT bot ring on iPoker

The rig is so obvious its no longer a comedic joke like this "Poker is rigged thread"


I feel bad for you people that ignore the ACTUAL fact that its rigged and just say. "Well the cards might be rigged or they might not be" or "Learn to beat the bots and then you can win more".

give IT a rest lol.

If you or any other riggie definitively proves that a RNG is rigged on a site that matters (ie: not some random site your cousin tossed up to deal AA every hand type thing) then I will be the first one to scream about it as a genuine industry issue. I have said that for 10+ years, and thusfar not a single riggie, including you, has provided even a tiny shred of evidence.

It is a very simple concept - evidence. Provide some and that matters. If you do not then you may as well replace all sorts of things. Here, let me ask you this - do you accept the possibility that we are secretly ruled by Lizard People Overlords? See how that line of questioning works? It is kind of meaningless, because the first thing you should do is ask me for proof than Lizard People Overlords exist. Then, when I reply with "prove that they don't" and you have a standard chat with a riggie.



Well, except for the fact that a lot of people saw it (including some affiliates who support that site) and put some pressure on the site to investigate it, and you may have noticed that the site rep posted in the thread as well about it. Well, you probably did not because a genuine issue like this does not matter to you.

Want to guess if a lot of those accounts have now been banned? See the difference that providing evidence makes? It gets taken seriously, and things change as a result.


Not sure what else to say. I keep showing you examples of how things get done, and you keep living the way of someone who never gets anything done. You are innately inferior.

All the best.

Welcome back. Third account now?

While what happened sucks. Posting it everywhere and then going on some tard outbursts did not help your case.

Guys, you ask appropriate questions all the time; I cant help but provide the appropriate answers. If I run a site and program a bot to work for me, why would I make it anything less than omnipotent; I mean, winning 55-60% of the large pots, and then disappearing in a month or two? On investigation, just a lucky player gone missing, that is all. Not that the sites answer questions about particular accounts in any revealing way, or in any way at all...

Yes, I am a proud mark, but of course, it is not just about me in particular. It is about profiling. Once you are labelled as mark (due to good depositing habits, say) then you are targeted any time you deposit again. Every deposit disappears with out-of-this-worldly regularity, thousands of times in a row. As opposed to live or to a non-rigged site, where all kind of nice and probability obliging stuff happens. (Disclaimer: non-rigged sites are tough to find IMO)

The bit in bold is fair enough. I'm trying to establish whether you simply dismiss ideas of possible cheating before being presented with proof. It seems fair to say that you do. Therefore, you wouldn't have believed the 888 bot ring story a month ago, or the super user stuff before it was proven, etc. etc. That's quite a nice world to live in but a little naive.

It's not similar at all. We know that many forms of cheating already happen in poker. We're simply discussing another possible form that you disagree with.

If the site couldn't detect the bot ring in the first place, what's to say the bots won't reappear a week after being banned with new accounts? This is why the idea of using HHs as a solution to online poker problems is totally backwards. Investigations using HHs are useful but are similar to a painkiller i.e. they help with the immediate symptoms but not the underlying problem. The onus must be on the sites to prove their security and fairness.

Just to add to why HHs are now even less relevant as a means for detecting issues with sites, this is from the OP in your bot ring thread:

I guess in your world Microstakes, there can't possibly be a bot ring on Party because there is no proof.

Have a nice day shilling.

Actually, when I see threads like that with evidence I participate in them for rooms I am active in (not on 888) and on those I am not I make others aware of the thread that I know are active on those rooms. The latter is what happened with this thread the moment I saw it. I tossed it in here as a snarky afterthought later on, but that is how the process works in the real world with genuine issues when I see them, and no real shock that the site rep took notice soon after. This thread has nothing to do with that process as people like you literally never provide any actual data.



If you provide actual evidence then I will listen. Really is that simple. Riggies, yourself included, have yet to provide a single bit of evidence. I have linked you many examples of research done which found evidence. Show me a single piece of verifiable evidence you or any riggie in this thread has done.

Riggies like you keep trying to distract from that simple condition, but in the end that is why you get contained and real issue threads do not.


The sites find a lot more than they post here, with access to some information that HHs cannot show (you can read the current thread of the 27 year old female casual player who won 100K for instance) but HHs are definitely a useful tool for finding cheaters, and the reality is that a ton of players in this industry do just that to improve their game and protect themselves.

Riggies hate HHs and dismiss their power, but that is because they generally lack the ability to use them effectively, so they try to talk them away.


That is a simplistic, and pretty fatalistic view, which are common behaviors within the riggie culture. The reality is that these efforts do have a significant impact on the games, and if you actually understood how the industry works you would know it. You are a complete newb though in that regard, and it shows.

I would say this - a player should never play on a site where they do not feel safe and comfortable. That is generally good advice, and one I tell riggies all the time. Most ignore it and continue to play and whine about it. You explain that to me.



HHs are a great tool and they matter. Data matters. Evidence matters. You expressing vague concerns without any evidence is meaningless. You know it. That is how it works, and why you are contained.

Imagine the time when people like you cluttered actual threads with your vague concerns. Years ago you would have been in that bot thread whining about how HHs do not matter, and people need to prove the sites are not in it. dacy would have yammered on about his profiling. Others would whine about deposit boom switches (that dacy would ignore) etc etc. Threads like that used to become a mess due to riggies who never cared about genuine issues. You said yourself you do not care about genuine issues. You care about your whatever riggie nonsense, just as other riggies care about their individualized riggie nonsense. I just take a bit of time to catalog your species now that it is nicely contained on the forums. You happen to be a boring example, that's all. Nothing special at all.

All the best.

So many words, so little said.

You didn't really address any of the points I made. For example, do you dismiss all possible cheating theories before having proof? That didn't require a paragraph on why you jumped on the AI bots at 888 thread.

And if you need proof, how would you help the OP with his investigation in to Party? He was able to do some investigative work on 888 due to getting HHs but even then, he admits he probably hasn't uncovered the full extent of the problem and may have innocent people caught up in it. That's your shining example of how online poker should be policed.

All it does is scream to me, stay the **** away from 888. And again, how could he even go about a similar investigation on Party, which is what he initially wanted to do? And if he can't get the HHs and provide proof, does that mean you won't entertain the idea that they have a similar problem to 888? Evidence and proof are your bottom line. Remember?

You gave me a classic shillie response. Lots of text, no meaning.

Have a nice day shilling.

Still struggling with comprehension huh?

Collusion, bots, chip dumping, real and always a concern. Always. Those are the real issues in online poker. We know for a fact they exist and are on all sites. No one turns away from those discussions.

The discussions people do turn away from and end up here are fantastical claims of nothing new. Super users, house accounts/bots, etc... the heralded boogeyman of the riggie, along with the RNG comedy stuff and action flops, etc.....

The people that claim house bots because it is obvious to them based on feelz get moved to this thread. The one with the title in quotes, snark intended as far as a debate. There is none due to lack of anything real to discuss. It's a thread full of poker versions of the guy that built his own rocketship to prove the earth is flat. No one sane tried to debate that guy.

You've also mentioned another issue and that is sites that do not provide HH to players. Smart players are always paying attention and on the lookout for cheaters. Where they differ from the riggie is when their feelz tingle, they go to the HH for evidence. Without it, the players have no true ability to self police.

Big sites like PP have a lot of oversight, so it is likely they'd get caught at some point. The downside is it could be far down the road.

Lack of HH, collusion, chip dumping, team play, soft play, bots, etc.... are very real issues. You will only find brief mentions of them ITT due to be actual problems. I've offered to have more than one riggie's HH analyzed and for free. They all claim to have them, yet....never take up the free offer to prove their claim and rid the game of cheating. Sorta like...having a screenshot but failing to produce it when called on it.

People that actually want the game cleaned up do what they cam to help. Then there are the ones that feel superior and make wild claims while keeping the proof in the dark so that cheating can continue.

One of two things is happening with those people.

One, they are co-conspirators in allowing the cheating to continue

Or

2....

Clearly impossible

Your limitation to read words is our issue.

The quality of the information and the source of the information matter a lot. In that case, the quality of the evidence was strong, so the poster being new was not an issue. It was obvious he knew what he was talking about. Similarly, if someone with experience and knowledge in this industry has a concern then I take that seriously as well. I talk to lots of other people in this industry and I hear their concerns, and I have expressed mine over the years about many questionable practices and networks. Now, does that mean iron clad evidence was had in every case? No, but by asking others I was able to better assess if my concerns were valid or if I was missing a piece of information. Both outcomes have happened (as well as some which were a mixture of the two).

The claims I do not place much value on are randos in this industry who post unsubstantiated claims or concerns with zero evidence. That is where you and other riggies live.

I realize that was a lot of words for you, and you probably cannot understand the distinctions in the categories, but that is how it works for professionals.


Then stay away from 888. That is entirely your choice to make as a consumer, and I tell riggies all the time to not play on sites they think are riggied (even when their riggie things are fictional).



Sites without downloadable HHs have different risk and reward factors to them, so one should consider those when choosing whether to play there or not. Often times the games are better, but they come with additional risk. The app based sites magnify that issue further - great games, but a lot of potential problems.

If not being able to prove bots on Party as easily is a concern for you then do not play there. That is a choice I agree with, and while I back a few players on sites like Party (with minimal tracking) those are players I trust that have a play history there already, so I place different conditions on the type of player I will work with depending on how the room works. You should as well as a consumer.

The problem with riggies like you is that you then conflate them all together as you are trying to do, when a different decision process should be made for each room depending on a number of factors including how they process money, their reputation, how HHs are available (or not), whether user names are available, number of games, quality of games etc. etc.




My answer all have actual meaning with how this industry actually works, but I give those knowing that people like you, who are complete neophytes, will willingly dismiss it all, and when you do that it makes me chuckle because I see how un-competitive people like you are as well. You will never accept that, which is also perfect, so I look forward to you getting literally zero value from the above reply . Probably was too many words for you anyways.

All the best.

That's reasonable. The flip side is, given the amount of cheating that occurs in poker, being suspicious of every part of the industry is also reasonable. And considering that you, Dud and others are affiliate shillies, we should be skeptical of every assurance you try and give.

I don't play at 888. You're the one who brought them into the discussion by using the bot ring thread.

I don't play on Party either so it's of no concern to me. It's only relevant because the OP from the bot ring thread initially wanted to investigate things he saw on Party but couldn't due to lack of HHs.

Which brings us back nicely to you, the guy who has been preaching that HHs are the way to prove the fairness of online poker. I'm asking you, how do you prove the fairness of the sites without HHs?

Have a nice day shilling.

Guess what....if someone credible actually felt that, they look at, (wait for it)............................................... ...HH and see how they consistently make hero calls/folds against ridiculous odds.

Guess how they are never found or taken credibly?

Muh AA was cracked by this guy snap calling with 4/9off and flopped trip 4s, he just kneeeeewww it was coming.

Oh yeah, you dun believe it?? Well here is butter where his 66 shove on the flop when muh A rags hit top pair no kicker and the turn was a 6. Wut mo proofs do ya need??

The mensa member who knew a player was a superuser on ACR and then got his parties in a bunch after his super posts were moved to this thread is one of those riggies that would not take up the offer to have the hands analyzed for a fair price of $0.00. Obviously, they either want the superuser to continue to ripoff everyone or....tater.

Its the bane of the riggie, fessing up with their proof....pure kryptonite as you well relate to yourself.

And that sums you up perfectly. You don't care about cheating if it does not appear to have direct impact on you.

People in the poker world care about integrity as a whole. Tiny little nobodies cannot envision anything outside of their nice little bubble of dumb.

Also, find a better word than shill/shillie. Everytime you misuse it, which is every post almost, you're just telling visitors to the thread that you're clueless as to what various terms mean. They should at least have to think about what you say to determine you're a putz. Why would you announce it upfront?

Then choose not to play. I tell other riggies to make that choice all the time. If you ever have any actual evidence of anything - present it. If you just want to whine some in a riggie thread - cool, go for it as literally nothing said here matters, and that is why you are contained.



I did not bring it up as an 888 issue. I brought it as an example of how providing evidence works. Riggies hate evidence. You hate evidence, which is why you keep trying to make that something it is not.

It was evidence of a genuine issue in this industry. I posted it here to mock the riggies who never use that process, including yourself. The room involved did not matter for that purpose.

Others can then make their choice on whether to play there or not based on that. I have for many years said that Party is one of the more chaotically run companies around. They change their rewards programs over and over (many times in ways that make no sense). They have done lots of other things I think are questionable (none RnG related - that is of course riggie whatever). I would definitely understand if someone chose not to play there for those reasons.


Don't play there if that is a concern. Now, are your riggie RnG concerns only on rooms that have no HH data available, or do they extend to rooms where HHs are readily available? If they extend to those rooms then why not use them to prove your concerns on those rooms, much like the bot guy proved his concerns on 888? Obviously you will never do that, and that is why riggies get disregarded. All concerns - zero evidence.

All the best.

Let's just stick to one point at a time and try and answer my question. You have stated that HHs are the solution to proving the fairness of online poker. I'll ask you again, in the absence of HHs how would you prove the fairness of a site?

Depends on the claim. Some riggies here recently said on such a site that they could see the rig with their own eyes. One even offered a 100K prop bet. I replied that a simple way to test his concern would be to setup a live stream to record every hand played for a certain period of time, and once all of that structure was in place we setup escrow etc.

Obviously I knew that he would never follow through, but your attempt to narrow the world to just rooms that restrict HHs (which there are often times ways around by the way - lots of people have huge database of hands from Global Poker for instance), that also I assume ignore claims that I showed could be proven is just the routine riggies like you try to do all the time to distract from your reality.

Provide evidence. Evidence matters.

Show me a single instance where you provided any evidence. You keep ignoring that, because - you have yet to do that. Well, you posted 2 HHs and butchered math about them, but that is it.

Now I answered your question, so it is time for you to willfully ignore mine as riggies tend to do with their normal behaviors.

Let's just stick to one point at a time and try and answer my questions.

Yes or no - are your RnG "concerns" only on rooms with no downloadable hand histories? Yes or no? If no, then why have you not used hand histories on those other rooms to prove something. Remember, you were the one that claimed to have 350,000 hands on an opponent who won at 5BB/100 when you were doing that superuser whatever that you dropped. Whatever happened to those screenshots you promised - as obviously that was on a room with downloadable HHs. Feel free to ignore this in your next post .

All the best.