I don't think this is true but i do wonder why anyone would spend so much time in this thread engaging in this pointless topic.

Pokerstars went live on the 11th of september 2001 (source)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PokerStars

Your theory looks to be confirmed.

The problem with this type of judgment is that pretty much anything can be tossed into the "pointless" category.

Go visit the politics forum and take part in the thread that has hundreds of posts trying to create intricate conspiracies for that Epstein guy's death or whether Trump used a Sharpie. Some of those guys have nearly 100,000 posts here.

Go visit the spots betting forum to see people who spend an insane amount of time following sports.

Some people post all day in BBV.

Some people post a lot about whatever interests them, even if it would be boring to others. A quick search of your recent posts for example shows you participate in threads about cricket (zero interest to me), TV (minimal interest to me), English football (zero interest), complaining about the backing industry (something we both have interest in, and something I actually do while you merely comment on from the sidelines). Point is - a lot of stuff you spend a lot of time talking about would to me be a "Waste of time" but that is from my perspective. I do not care how many wickets a wonk whacks, but if you enjoy it, then time spent discussing it is not a waste of time to you.

Similarly I have 75-80ish posts in this thread in all of 2019 (so on average about 1 every few days, though like this they come in small clumps so good chance under 20 different days I bothered posting here this year). I used to post a bit in the Politics forum, when a lot of the people who got booted were there, because they amused me with how much whining they did. That forum I barely read now.

Is spending a bit of time having fun with riggies infrequently in a thread in an industry I am still actively involved in a "waste of time?" Meh, maybe, and if so a minimal one. So what. You post in here once in a while as well, usually to comment on me or support in a passive aggressive manner a comment to someone else who mentions me. Is that a good use of your time? Probably to you, and that's fine. Hope this helped you, and no doubt I will see you posting in the future when I post or I am mentioned.

All the best.

1 person can not prove a rig. I talked with people who run poker trackers and asked for help. They told me str8 out 1 person could never prove a rig. It takes many people with massive computing power. So I guess we will never know.
We will just have to except that when u flop a flush heads and lose to a higher flush it's normal. We will have to except that when u flop top set and lose 10 str8 times to a gut shot that it's normal . U gotta except the same guys always gave the nuts and its normal .

Let's go ahead and except that.

You will never know, but here is an example of one person proving softplay between certain players, and finding this is considerably harder than pretty much any riggie theory (which are trivially easy to prove if true).

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...67/?highlight=

Similarly, a number of threads have been created where "one person" definitively proved certain accounts were bots based on verifiable, powerful hand history data.

What you claim can never be done has been done many times. Your limitations (for instance you said the following)

are just your limitations. Others do not have your limitations, so what you think is impossible, is often times quite easy for others to actually do.

Feel free to link your exchanges with the PT people. Could be good for a chuckle.


All the best.

Well, there is a slight difference here. What I am saying is that poker is severely rigged, by the poker sites. I have no ounce of doubt in my mind, after this nightmarish experience of over 15 years online. You are just conditioned to know: All in; showdown, the guy has KKxx, I have AAxx, I lose; king is coming or something else that would fill him. I know I am not a big favorite in the situation, but when it happens, like 100% of the time, when I am by the end of my deposit-to-zero cycle, then perhaps there is something behind it? Or, I can go with hundreds of similar scenarios. These inevitably happens when I am put in the "kill the mark" mode, that is, sufficiently far from a deposit.

The difference is, of course, in the cases you mention, is that the site was reacting to something which was not caused by them; someone was trying to make a buck, outside the machinery of the poker site, but using the venue. Of course, they will be happy to react and cooperate, and catch the perpetrator(s). Same with bots. The sites are extremely happy to have cases like that where they can say: See, we care about the integrity and your security as a player, and I appreciate that; but in the light of everything else happening due to their own rigging, it is all just baloney and smoke and mirrors. Profiling is a powerful tool in every business, and it is generally harmless, but not in the case of online gambling, where profiling puts a bull eye on the mark and screw it to oblivion. In other businesses you still have a choice and you still get something for your money. In online poker all you get is pain.

As much as it would be mildly amusing to break apart your post yet again, in the end you are a 15 year degen donk, and that is it. You donate to the poker economy. You help make the poker economy exist for the better players who work at their game and have the emotional stability to handle it properly.

The sites are not all against you. You do not matter, except to you, so while you may believe you are the target of an evil conspiracy - you fall into the category of the paranoid person who's worst fear is realizing that nobody is watching him. Nobody with a doomswitch is watching you. Now in reality the better players may very well be searching for you (common with fish/donks/whales) and for a while you probably had people insta sit next to you with seating script, but that is just the behavior of predators going after their prey. You are prey, and are probably "marked" by other players as just that.

There is no deposit/lose pattern that is due to rigging. In fact, most riggie theories would say you are the exact player (perma loser) who the sites go out of the way to help with their rigs, so you are ironically showing why riggie theories are innately silly.

You should genuinely stop playing online poker. Never play again. If you play, then assume you will lose whatever you deposit, not because the sites are secretly tracking you, but because you lack what it takes to be a long term winner at this game, and the predators will always eventually eat you up, just as they have been doing for 15 years. You are prey.

Never deposit again. Never play online poker again. Genuine and literally the best advice you will get, but I know you will never listen to it, and again the predators of the poker economy very much appreciate your continued support.

All the best.

Meh. I always think it's weird when people question why others spend "so much time" posting on one subject or another, given how much time most people spend in all sorts of strange pursuits. Especially when we're talking about an average of ~0.5 posts/day - how much of my time do you think that takes up? But I know you're not putting that out there to prove some kind of point or win an argument like some people do, and your observation is a valid one. I wonder myself sometimes, but I spend a lot less time in here than I used to. Before, it seemed like there was something of a point, as you would get the occasional poster that could be reasoned with and would engage in logical conversation, and I always felt there were observers on the fence that would benefit from the discussion. And it's never been about convincing people, but getting to the bottom of things. Either uncovering the flaws in their thinking, or showing them how to properly analyze, and if there ever was a real rig to be uncovered, hopefully the discussion would help.

Sadly, these days there's not a lot of useful conversation to be had. Guys like dacy are a waste of time, because it's obvious that nothing will change his mind. And then there's the guy you replied to in this post - making fake riggie posts is one of the stranger pursuits I've seen. But I guess he'll continue as long as he gets fed.

Appreciate your measured response bobo.

Very little time per day im sure its more the length of time this has been debated on the side of the non rigged side when the fundamental argument hasn't changed in 10 years. It makes sense to me that people new to poker will keep making posts proclaiming the sites are rigged. It doesn't compute for me why someone on the non rigged side would refute this argument over and over with no new information changing their opinion.

This does make sense and was something i hadn't considered. Like you say this was probably more relevant years ago.

Sport, television and politics have new events that happen every day which create topics of discussion. Spending 10 years camped in here belittling posters with a join date of one day ago and one post hardly seems comparable as a interest to me but to each their own. Will pop back in 6 months to "follow" you again if i see something of note.

Because they're paid shills who've played about 2k hands their whole life and have zero evidence on proving the randomisation of an RNG, just like no regulator on earth does either. Woo AA gets dealt precisely 0.45% LMAO there's the proof maaaaan.

If anyone wants 16 years and 12 million hands of 100% below EV proof that computers CANNOT randomise whatsoever, then feel free to shoot me a pm

Yes I donate to the poker economy. Not in the way you are suggesting. Just being a donk - too simple for my liking, experience and success at live cash games. I am fine with your qualifications though. Just the way you try to qualify me; I can qualify what happens online as robbery. I donate by agreeing to play; once I deposit, I do not have any other choice but to lose in the long run, under a machinery which I well understand; I understand how it works, and why it is there. And I understand why it is difficult to detect the anomalies. People tend to focus on the initial cards they get - nothing wrong there. Random generator - nothing wrong there either; does not have to be rigged in any way. What happens after that is where the things get shady. It is all in the software. It is an easy programming that can rig the game, exactly as I am saying. And if it is an easy con, it is most likely done. I do not buy the reasons why they would not do it. They have all the reasons to do it; like staying on top of the game, like "the others do it, why should not we", etc. And we do not have control what the poker site runs at their servers at any particular moment, whether it is a fair game copy of the software, or a rigged one. As I mentioned, my last impressions of a fair game online date back to 2006.

And I appreciate the advice. I know that stopping is a good solution for both my bankroll and for the sites I play. In fact that is what they suggested on the surface - you do not like our services - you are not welcomed here. Fair enough. To me it sounds more like they have something to hide.

Yes I help the poker economy to exist, yes I help the "better" players, or as I call them "those who signed for particular types of services at the poker sites", those on a payroll from the poker sites; there are no other better players... The machinery does not allow it anyway. If there is one who is not on a payroll from a poker site, not a prop player, then come play on my account; show me a profit. I will double it for you. The only problem with that is, well, how do I know that this is not another con coming with the knowledge of the site... My poker friends have the same concerns and the same dismal "success" online, so they cannot really prove my "theories" wrong.

The sites are not against me? Hell, yes, they are against me and against everyone who has the money to deposit and play, everyone who is not on their payroll list. I do not matter - fine. Nobody with a doomswitch is watching me - I agree - there is no need for that. It is a simple software that does the job. First, the profiling is there. The list of my deposits is there with the frequencies and values and everything. Here is a simple function for you: How far the mark is from a deposit. The further the mark is from a deposit, the more forced all ins go to the poker sites accounts (I will call them shills for simplicity; you can call them props, bots, site accounts, or whatever) until the mark is at zero. By forced all in I mean something like a top set on the flop that gets beaten by whatever later. The function on which the software makes decisions where the pot goes could be a bit more complicated, say involving some other variables, like how often the player deposits, what the size of the deposits is on average, etc.

Some of the sites likely told you to get lost, because you are a dreadful, whiny customer who likely constantly annoys their customer service with long winded crazy. In contrast, most other players at your table will put up with your whiny crazy because you are their food source. You are prey, nothing more. Whine all you like, they will not care. Hell, some may even agree with you to try to humour you to keep you feeding them in the future.

If you want to create intricate worlds to rationalize away your role in the industry (you are simple prey, that's all) - then fine, but that is just you trying very hard to not see reality. The opponents will not care, and why should they. The sites may eventually tell you to get lost and close your accounts, not to hide anything (again, that is one of your fantasy worlds) - but rather to get rid of a whiny drama queen who wastes a lot of their time and energy.

You are prey. If you want to believe it is to companies and shills and Lizard People and everyone else who are against you, instead of just being weak at this game - then fine, whatever. Even in your fantasy world you are still prey, just to a wacky shadow organization with magical software that targets you, and no programmers will ever reveal these hidden truths. Again, whatever. Stop being prey. Never deposit again. Never play again. Deny the predators their food source, that is you, once and for all.

Enough of this topic- next tell us who you think was responsible for 9/11.

All the best.

Wow, it feels like God is talking to me... You definitely speak with authority; must be a quite high ranking official in whatever trade you are. Mark, prey - all the same. "Stop being a prey" - I read it as "stop digging around, you got screwed enough, now get out of here". See, I almost get the message; I am not looking for compassion here; that would be the last place, and I know empathy is not strong here either. This place is definitely not ruled by the marks of the industry.

I do not know why you keep asking about 9/11. Would that reveal something of interest to you? Is it connected to how the sites rig poker? Or it is just to shift the focus from the not so comfortable topic for whoever you are pitching for (although it seems I am at the right tread). All I can say - whoever did it - they are not from my tribe. I do not kill or rob people for living. Or should I say for dying...

dacy, U shove i call, Top Pig

As you seem to need help to stop playing, instead of wasting your money by making your next deposit, buy David Sklansky's latest book, "The Theory of Poker Applied to No-Limit", (see https://www.twoplustwo.com/books/).

After reading it, you will realise why you lose in today's online game, whether or not you made some money in the good old days when the playing field was more even. Either you keep up to date with how the serious players think about each hand; you accept you're paying to spend a few hours in a game you obviously don't actually enjoy; or, you find another leisure activity.

Have played under 100 hours of online this poker this year. Like you say its not very enjoyable after 10 years as a professional player it gets boring and there are better opportunities elsewhere. If i did fancy playing seriously again i never had a problem selling action to EPTs and the WSOP main event on these forums so your assumption im a addicted gambler that can't stop depositing and losing is pretty far off base.

Not sure how helpful a book from a old timer is these days in the age of piosolver and training sites. Seems like books are going the way of the dinosaur in poker but thanks for the suggestion.

Believe it or not, I totally agree with this sentiment, and one of the things that I have said over the years is that I never post with the intent to change a riggie's mind, and I have annoyed other shills by quite often questioning their naive (albeit nicer) agenda of actually trying to help the riggies with logic. I never saw the point in that, because riggies for the most part have zero interest in learning or working to improve or ever changing their mind (with a few exceptions of course, I have backed some ex-riggies from this very thread for instance).

I like having a bit of gentle fun with riggies, and they get the attention they crave when they complain about whatever their version of the easy to see, impossible to prove, everyone is in on it, yet nobody has ever revealed theory. Many just whine (like the pig dude), but some, like this latest guy, create pretty intricate worlds in their minds to rationalize away their place in the food chain, and avoid any responsibility for their choices.

The irony is that usually my advice is better (granted mixed in with snark) than most of the shills who genuinely try to help the riggies. I just happen to offer it knowing that riggies will never learn, and part of the fun is watching them repeat the same mistakes over and over even when it is laid out to them. This latest guy has done that for 15 years and will continue to do so in the future, which is a sad, yet vital component of this (and often times many other) industries.



Part of why I enjoy posting in this thread (fairly infrequently lately, but a fun burst once in a while) is confronting attitudes like yours. I still recall long ago in a corporate environment a person who said to me when he saw me in the bathroom "I always see you in here" to which my reply was "I was about to say the same thing." He had an annoyed look on his face, because he never imagined the world from a perspective other than his, and he had no interest in doing so, so he just muttered a "whatever" much like riggies or you react to my posts. Fun for me at least!

You defend sports and politics and such for reasons you believe make spending time on them valid, but again that is just your perspective. GO to the Politics forum and you will find people who would REALLY do themselves a favor by taking a break from talking about politics. They literally consume it 24/7.

Guys like you imply that that is what I do here, but of course that is not the case. I am in this industry, and I am at my computer because that is how I communicate with the several dozen people I work with, and it also allows me to watch them play. As I do that, if the puss in this thread comes to the surface (less and less frequent these days) then I help pop that riggie pimple. No hard feelings, no emotions, no stress, just an amusing diversion, and as time goes on and as forums like this age further - this side diversion becomes less and less frequent as seen by my <100 posts in it total for the 250ish days so far this year.

I am actually in this industry, while fossils like you kind of hover on the edges of it talking about past glories, so again I would ask why you continue to spend time here, much like I ask why riggies continue to play. If you find it to be a fun hobby for you - then that is totally fine, you are free to talk cricket and darts and fish and chips or post in a riggie thread. Whatever makes you happy.

All the best.

It is an incredibly helpful book, and (fwiw) I would recommend it thoroughly. Particularly to those who have decent knowledge about and lengthy experience with the game, (which is obviously the case with you).

Even if you have some personal problem with reading books, it would suit you, sir, as it is probably best read one chapter at a time, in your own time, reviewing each chapter until is understood fully, before moving on to the next.

But don't take my word for it. It's only $35, so why not try it yourself? Then you can make informed comment about the book for the benefit of others considering whether or not to buy it, instead of making wild guesses about its content and value to serious players.

Send me a free copy and i will review it for you. Not going to buy it when you resort to talking to me in this fashion. Its probably as useful as your money exchange thread that you moderate here. 50/50 chance you get scammed while anyone with any networking skills at all wouldn't be seen dead there.

Sorry. I don't give to beggars.

As for the transfers thread, why not try it yourself? Then you can make informed comment about the thread for the benefit of others considering whether or not to use it, instead of making wild guesses about its content and value to the thousands of serious traders who have already used it over many years.

I did try it in 2010 your infraction for not including a screen name is still proudly displayed on my personal profile!

Beggar is a bit strong when you were the one to shill it in the first place. If i sent you a unsolicited request for a freebee your terminology would be more accurate. Anyway gl selling your book when all the top no limit crushers have purchased it and left a review on amazon i might dip my toe in and risk that $35 will let you know when that occurs.

You tried the transfer thread a decade ago, and you sold a package for yourself to a live event nearly half a decade ago. That certainly qualifies you to be an expert on that thread and the staking industry .

As to that book, I tend to agree that it is completely non-essential for anyone with current experience in this industry, as much better choices of coaching materials are available to them from currently relevant players and participants. It might be a reasonable basics guide for a casual person or a bad player (like the profiling guy), though those types of books were more useful when you were actually using the transfer thread!

All the best.

It is so sad that someone has 10,500 posts on any forum, despite it being about poker.
Someone needs some help.

Well, in contrast I think it is sad that people like you remain butthurt over what someone tells you on the internet months later. Your last interaction here was a few months ago (all one has to do is click on your post history), and your performance then even makes profiler dude here seem rational.

Get over it, and you should quit all forms of poker as well and move onto something where you can have better success in life. I say this knowing you will not follow this correct advice, and likely we will see you (like others of your type before you) come back here a few times a year to talk about how pathetic others are, because you could not get emotionally past a debate you lost in a riggie thread long ago.

All the best.

Why would it not be rigged? Sports are rigged as well. Reason is because there is a lot of money involved. My advice to players is just play freerolls. However, downloading the software is also a risk, they put spyware on your computer.

Best of Luck

Kemi Kings

Debate? and I lost ?

You are a really sad individual.

If the mods completety removed this topic and, in so doing, deleted your 10,500 posts, what would you do?

Let me guess. Go back to "bonus whoring" with your gang?

"Montys 2" coming to your screens soon.

George Clooney, I guess, would direct and produce this epic!
Danny DeVito would be the obvious choice for you, although not in a comdedic role. He just needs to be a short, fat dude with glasses (really thick ones).

One last thing. This is not a debate.

All the best